Harksaw 0 #51 November 7, 2005 Do we know there isn't a reason that they require a retirement after 12 years? Depending on how it malfunctions, a malfunctioning cypres could be more dangerous than no cypres at all.__________________________________________________ I started skydiving for the money and the chicks. Oh, wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rbanfield 0 #52 November 7, 2005 QuoteDepending on how it malfunctions, a malfunctioning cypres could be more dangerous than no cypres at all. This is exactly what I have been saying. It's a friggen piece of electronics... they do fail... and not always as you might expect them to. People say not to rely on the cypres to save your life, but you do have to rely on the cypres not to take your life with some type of unintentional deployment (like when you're on the plane). Fortunately, Airtec has put so much care into their system that the probability for this is very low... very low, that is, when following their express instructions to have it repaired every 4 years +- 3 months and thrown away after 12. If you dont follow the limits, you may be putting yourself and others in danger. The reason for mandatory maintenance is given on their website. Obviously if the unit is expired, they will not maintain it. "The CYPRES is a very compact and sophisticated electronic device, which - during a 4 year time period - was probably subjected to all possible mechanical and thermal stresses. It is a possibility that the CYPRES had been left in the trunk of a car for days, the rig lay in the sun when packing, a landing was not so good and/or the unit may have been subjected to great temperature differences if jumping in cold areas. In addition, certain components age and need compensation even if the unit is not used or switched on. As with other rig components, CYPRES performs its task on every jump - and not only if an activation occurs. A possible activation is the end of a continuous work process. To ensure that the unit performs this work - even after a long period of time - as precisely as a new unit does, it needs a thorough check periodically. This is why the maintenance is necessary." I have a feeling if something bad happened due to an expired cypres the people on this forum would shout at the idiot using the expired piece of equipment rather than questioning the amount in his coffers. In our minds, income will not assuage what ignorance has caused. There was a time when people jumped without AADs and lived to tell the tale you know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thepollster 0 #53 November 7, 2005 You could sell it on ebay, like this person, with no mention of it being expired: http://cgi.ebay.com/Airtec-Expert-Cypres-AAD-skydive-skydiving-parachute_W0QQitemZ7193955044QQcategoryZ106980QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Current bid $102 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #54 November 7, 2005 >>Uses for an Expired Cypress?<< NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #55 November 7, 2005 When mine expires in a year and a half, I'm going to see if I can somehow make it work in a teddy bear rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 292 #56 November 8, 2005 Quote>>Uses for an Expired Cypress?<< NickD BASE 194 Ha, ha. You can set it by how much higher your destination is, than your present plane of existance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 292 #57 November 8, 2005 Quotemine just passed its offical time of life... wondering what to do with it other than let a few of the local swoop gods try to fire it? Sell it on eBay. There is a out of date one there, going for $102, with two days left on the bidding. I wonder whether the high bidder knows that it is expired. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #58 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuotemine just passed its offical time of life... wondering what to do with it other than let a few of the local swoop gods try to fire it? Sell it on eBay. There is a out of date one there, going for $102, with two days left on the bidding. I wonder whether the high bidder knows that it is expired. The present low bidder is from australia, so they might know what their getting. The seller otoh also has a WFFC 2005 hat for sale. No comment on their money habit's. I vote for donating a expired cypress to skydivers in countries where their use is permitted. Like someone else said, some of the gear their jumping is well used. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,475 #59 November 8, 2005 > Do we know there isn't a reason that they require a retirement after 12 years? They have given their reasons on their web page, and in several articles. Basically a) they want to replace the older design with a new one, b) they are worried components will drift and c) they didn't design it to last 20 years. >a malfunctioning cypres could be more dangerous than no cypres at all. Of course. As someone recently discovered, even a properly working and properly maintained cypres can be more dangerous than no cypres at all. Each person must make their own decision on what's an acceptable tradeoff. Here in the US, it's easy to say that an in-date cypres is the right thing to use. At a Russian DZ, where you might have to choose between a KAP-10, a timed out cypres with new batteries or no AAD at all for your students, the timed out cypres might be the best choice. (Of course an in-date cypres would be an even better choice, if that was an option.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 0 #60 November 8, 2005 QuoteThe present low bidder is from australia, so they might know what their getting. We have rules here too y'know. Reserves containing expired Cypres's can't be packed. I've messaged the lady in question; in this country that Cypres is useless except as collateral for a trade-in, and the current bid price is above that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #61 November 8, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe present low bidder is from australia, so they might know what their getting. We have rules here too y'know. Reserves containing expired Cypres's can't be packed. I've messaged the lady in question; in this country that Cypres is useless except as collateral for a trade-in, and the current bid price is above that. Hi Dino Sorry about I wasn't aware that australia had the same cypress requirement as the US. Thanks for taking the time to give the present low bidder on Ebay the info about buying something she won't be able to use. Donations to eastern europe anyoneR.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #62 November 8, 2005 Quote>>Uses for an Expired Cypress?<< NickD BASE 194 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Same as an Anti-Wind Blast Handle! Guffaw! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #63 November 9, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuoteI figured their riggers were required to follow mfg instructions. There is no FAA in Canada...MOT don't do parachutes or mountain bikes. As a Canadian rigger, I'm not required by law to follow the manufacturer's instructions, but I am required to do so by the issuer of my rigging licence (CSPA). Failure to do so could result in loosing my rigging licence, as well as legal liability in the event of an accident. I won't pack a rig with an expired Cypres in it, and I don't think many other Canadian riggers would either. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just spent the last week impressing this point on Canada's latest litter of little riggers. FAA FARs, TSOs, AAD manufacturers' maintenance schedules, etc. may not be LAW in Canada, but are considered good business practice. Manufacturers' instructions are not LAW in Canada because Transport Canada (federal government) does not want to be bothered and allows CSPA to set standards as long as fatality rates remain low, innocent bystanders are not imperiled, airliners not inconvenienced, air traffic controllers not scared, etc. Canadian riggers ignore manufacturer's instructions at their peril ... ignorance means they are "on their own" in court. The flip side of that logic is that Canadian riggers can hide behind manuals. If a good Canadian rigger gets called into court, lawyers (for the prosecution) will soon tire of hearing "I just followed the manual" and will redirect their efforts towards suing the Uninsured Relative Workshop. Good luck there buddy! Evil laughter!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #64 November 9, 2005 I remember seeing this on a video once. They filled one of those plastic 50 gallon barrels with water. Hooked up a big ole freefly tube to it and an old cypress. I believe the story was the cypress was rigged so when it fired it dumped all the water. Pretty cool shizzle. How is it illegal by the way to pack a reserve with an expired cypress. Its optional equipment. I want to see a CFR saying that you cant do it. You can show me USPA regs saying you cant, but that doesnt count as illegal unless it is referenced to a CFR. Is a cypress even included as part of the TSO cert? D'Bo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #65 November 9, 2005 QuoteHow is it illegal by the way to pack a reserve with an expired cypress. Its optional equipment. I want to see a CFR saying that you cant do it. You can show me USPA regs saying you cant, but that doesnt count as illegal unless it is referenced to a CFR. Is a cypress even included as part of the TSO cert? FAA regulations, Part 105, which are law, say it is illegal. At least in the US. § 105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems. No person may conduct a parachute operation using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow any person to conduct a parachute operation from that aircraft using a single-harness, dual-parachute system, unless that system has at least one main parachute, one approved reserve parachute, and one approved single person harness and container that are packed as follows: Items (a) and (b) not posted. (c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Loonix 0 #66 November 10, 2005 how about a new twist of beer precision landing? Throw a case of beer out of a plane, let the cypres open a round for it and try to hit on target :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #67 November 10, 2005 Quote Here in the US, it's easy to say that an in-date cypres is the right thing to use. At a Russian DZ, where you might have to choose between a KAP-10, a timed out cypres with new batteries or no AAD at all for your students, the timed out cypres might be the best choice. (Of course an in-date cypres would be an even better choice, if that was an option.) Unless the cypres fires on climbout, damages the plane, and it crashes. People may or may not die in that kind of accident. Is that unlikely scenerio? Yes. But possible. And I'd rather take the chance of some idiot going in on a no-pull vs the plane going down and possible multiple deaths. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #68 November 10, 2005 Expired cypres units are used at riggers certification courses to practice with. We had a big box of them at the course I went to. We were required to install them in various different rigs and then pack the reserve. The rig was then opened and inspected to make sure it was installed properly then the unit was removed and thrown back in the box. If you would like to donate it I know of an upcoming class that could use it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 262 #69 November 10, 2005 Quote (c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device. While that is the well known bit of regulation that applies, anyone trying to weasel out would use this semantic argument: If a jumper is wearing an expired Cypres, he would say, "This is not an AAD. It was until it expired. Now it is a bunch of scrap, which just happens to have a part of itself wrapped around my reserve loop. Actually I consider the unit to be an electronic game -- I use it to play 'follow the flashing red light' on it's one button." :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rbanfield 0 #70 November 11, 2005 Could I also say "I don't follow the Earth calendar, I follow the Pluto calendar, where a day is 153.282 hours and therefore my reserve doesnt need to be repacked for another 646 days?" I betcha those Plutonians would do that too... fuckers Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #71 November 11, 2005 You can also call it an AAD and continue to use it. Either way you'd be violating an FAR. The FAA doesn't play word games. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #72 November 11, 2005 Well damn - there it is. D'Bo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #73 November 12, 2005 QuoteWell damn - there it is. D'Bo Reading is a wonderful tool. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #74 November 13, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell damn - there it is. D'Bo Reading is a wonderful tool. Sparky Sucked all the fun out of this thread didn't he? Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar 0 #75 November 13, 2005 How does a cypress know its overdue and has to malfunction? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
