*Warning re: Delta Airlines

[IronMike 0]

I fly non-revenue on Delta all the tme with my rig and have never had a problem, even with it in my carry on. I got nabbed last weekend on a random security check and all I had in my suitcase was a pair of jeans, boxers, a tee shirt and my rig. That had to look bad. It was a one day trip. I think you just got ahold of an idiot.

Mike

[weid14 0]

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when you use curb side check-in

That's probably a thing of the past at most if not all airports in the US.

nope, not at all, it was for a little while after the attacks, but it is available at every airport I've been to this year (and thats a fair number).

[Gravitymaster 0]

I know many skydivers fly Delta every year without incident. Its possible I just ran into an idiot. Hopefully thats all it is. I will find out when I hear back from Delta.
However, this is the second time this year I have run into a problem with Delta. The first time, I was able to B/S my way onto the plane but not until they took us into "the little room to the side", questioned and searched my G/F and I and hand searched our bags.
We also thought it was an isolated incident the first time, but 2 times in a row makes that hard to believe.

Bob

[PhreeZone 15]

TSA agents are given a lot more flexibility in their search abilities and abilities to stop people from passing now then the FAA ever did. If you were trying to board with too many sharp objects they have grounds to hold you and prohibit boarding now. Its also SOP if you are the last to the plane you have to be searched. Columbus has some of the scanning machines in the main check in area and some in the back ground. If your not there with keys when they want to open your lugage (as one of my coworkers found out) they've got some bolt cutters they use on the locks/luggage. An over zelous agant sliced into the zipper on his bag preventing a lock from ever working on it in the future. Good thing it was a Samsonite hardshell that he got replaced for free...

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AndyMan 7]

Regarding curbside checkin, I used it today at Chicago's Midway Airport.

Regarding the TSA, I vastly prefer them to the likes of Argenbright. However, the TSA missed a screwdriver I fogot was in my camera case when I went home for chrimstas, the Canadian private security firm at Toronto International spot it. The kid I was sitting beside on Southwest (chicago -> oakland) had 4 pairs of scisors with him...

I did have to pull out the Cypres card going through security at Midway, but wasn't delayed more then 2 minutes.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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The first time, I was able to B/S my way onto the plane but not until they took us into "the little room to the side", questioned and searched my G/F and I

um, were you wearing anything provocative??

I'm just reminded of an Eddy Murphy comedy routine involving Mr. T. : "HEY BOY, YOU LOOKIN' MIGHTY CUTE IN THEM JEANS....NOW C'MON OVER HERE...."

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[freeflir29 0]

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nope, not at all, it was for a little while after the attacks, but it is available at every airport I've been to this year (and thats a fair number)

I mean AFTER they start screening ALL checked luggage. I guess they can still have curbside check in but I personally would rather have it screened in front of me in case they need to open it. That way it can stay locked when it is out of my sight.

[weid14 0]

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nope, not at all, it was for a little while after the attacks, but it is available at every airport I've been to this year (and thats a fair number)

I mean AFTER they start screening ALL checked luggage. I guess they can still have curbside check in but I personally would rather have it screened in front of me in case they need to open it. That way it can stay locked when it is out of my sight.

oh right got ya, last time I flew I was running late (SOP), so I thought curb side! no line! well, I had a one way ticket bought two days prior, so all my checked luggage was hand searched (had a rig with me too), they took everything out, and one guy actually packed in back better than I had it. the other guy wasn't so good, but I couldn't help or else they would start all over again.

[Galen 0]

Anyone have e-mail addresses for top people at Delta. We could start an e-mail campaign to bring this to their attention and urge them to issue a memo to everyone of their employees in the field that may have to deal with this issue. It may or may not get anything accomplished but a 100 or more e-mails to the same people at Delta siting Gravitymaster's experience and that it would influence your decision to fly on Delta in the future. Since most major airlines or in a money crunch we may be able to scare them where it counts - their revenue. Anyone have any thoughts?

Respect the Dolphin

[homer 0]

All this is of some concern to me as I plan on flying with my gear in April to Texas. I was planning on using Delta but may look at other airlines as well. I will probably email the airlines before ticket purchase to get a printed and signed all ok.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[Gravitymaster 0]

It should be of concern to all of us. If everyone who has read this thread so far will take the time to contact Delta and TSA it might have an impact. On the other hand if people read it and just say to themselves "this sucks, glad it didn't happen to me" and don't take any action, then I am afraid we are going to see a lot more of this in 2003 when they start X-raying even checked luggage.

I would also hope those who would like to see Delta/TSA address this problem by contacting them would do so in a non-confrontational manner. I would simply tell them you have heard about this incident and would like for them to send you a copy of their policy regarding skydiving rigs and Cypres.

I know Airtec and USPA have tried to address this for years in a diplomatic way. I think now is the time to let them know from the Skydiving Community, it's going to affect their ticket sales since there are probably ten of thousands of Skydivers worldwide who use AADs.

I like the boobie threads as much as anyone else does, but this is important and we need to act before YOU are being escorted out of the boarding area like I was. I didn't think it would ever happen to me either.

Bob

[Jessica 0]

I sent this to the tsa:

Hello,

I am a skydiver, and often carry on my sport parachute rig when I travel. I dislike checking it because of the potential for damage or loss; insurance to cover the entire value (around $3,000) is very expensive.

The rig is equipped with an automatic opening device, which will deploy my reserve parachute if I am unconcious or incapacitated. The device does NOT contain compressed gas, and is maintained by an FAA-certified parachute rigger, verifiable by a data card carried in the rig. The brand name is Cypres, and it has been classified as non-dangerous by the Department of Transportation.

The last time I flew, out of CMH, I was forced by TSA screeners to check my skydiving equipment. The reason given was that I might try to hijack the plane then escape. I found that logic patently ridiculous. There are tens of thousands of sport parachutists in this country who carry on their rigs all the time. I have, myself, a dozen times before this incident.

Please give me some guidelines on how to facilitate carrying on my equipment. Any letters, documents, or other materials would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Me

Skydiving is for cool people only

[trmnljnky 0]

this is from USPA's website

December 20, 2003
Alexandria, Virginia

Due to cost and personal security of a parachute rig, many skydivers prefer to carry their rigs onto commercial flights. At this point, USPA knows of no U.S. airline that prohibits parachute rigs as carry-on items. However, jumpers may find it easier to carry their equipment in a protective equipment bag. It is always advisable to present a good profile to inspectors, who are trained to observe numerous external passenger traits and characteristics.

At USPA's request, the Transportation Security Administration is providing information to its screener agents about rigs and computerized automatic activation devices installed on most parachutes. This information should reduce the necessity for a detailed, hand-inspection of a rig, which otherwise could include the opening of a reserve container. (Most skydivers are not authorized to reclose a reserve parachute.) It should also reduce instances of a jumper with a parachute being turned away from the gate area.

Checked Item
Beginning January 1, the TSA requires all checked items to be inspected before being placed on an airplane. The TSA is advising passengers not to lock checked bags so they can be opened for inspection. Tests involving USPA and TSA officials at the TSA facility in Atlantic City verified that AADs do not trigger explosive detection equipment used by airport security. TSA officials assured USPA that a hand search of a checked item should not occur if the item successfully passes through security systems that airports have installed.

Skydivers should be prepared, because isolated problems getting parachutes through security may still occur, typically requiring better communication with airport security personnel. Jumpers should carry and present USPA membership cards and/or FAA rigger certificates in the event their parachute is flagged. USPA advises jumpers to remain patient, cooperate and to provide USPA with the date, time, airport, and details of the problem, including whether the parachute rig was being transported as a carry-on or checked item.

Byron

[Gravitymaster 0]

I just got an email from Cliff Schmucker from SSK. They are getting in touch with Delta and TSA regarding this incident. Will keep everyone updated.

Don't even begin to think this solves the problem. Cliff also mentioned in his email he expects a lot more incidents like this after Jan 1, 2003 when TSA starts x-raying ALL baggage. My advice is to start sending those emails and making phone calls because there is a chance this could happen to you the next time you fly with your rig.

Bob

[flyangel2 2]

I admit, I'm a lazy person. What would be the chance of you posting phone numbers, the address, and e-mail address where we can show our support by flooding them with comments.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[freefallfreak 0]

Now, that, my dear, is an excellent idea....flood them with e-mails and phone calls...but all non-confrontational - and we may find a little relief from this problem in the future...

FFF

"Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up."

[Gawain 0]

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Now, that, my dear, is an excellent idea....flood them with e-mails and phone calls...but all non-confrontational - and we may find a little relief from this problem in the future...

One question I have is this, why isn't USPA keeping a bit more visibility in this issue?

All that aside...

Whenever my company had a big regulatory issue coming up, they would solicit our involvement to write our congressmen/women. They would provide a form letter and a fax number/email etc.

If some one would help me denote the specific items in the FAA/DOT regs, I would happily compose a very diplomatic, yet clear message which we could all use as a boilerplate to send to TSA/FAA/DOT/representatives..whomever.

Do FXC/Astras face the same scrutiny as Cypres at the airport?

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[freefallfreak 0]

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If some one would help me denote the specific items in the FAA/DOT regs, I would happily compose a very diplomatic, yet clear message which we could all use as a boilerplate to send to TSA/FAA/DOT/representatives..whomever.

Another excellent idea....

FFF

"Upon seeing the shadow of a pigeon, one must resist the urge to look up."

[Gravitymaster 0]

O.K. heres what I got:

TSA

Email: [email protected]
1-866-289-9673
_______________________________________________________
Delta:

Http://delta.Com/Care/Email/Index.Jsp

The only thing I found for Delta so far is the above online email form and their HQ addres:

Delta Air Lines
2008 Terminal E Row C
Dallas, TX 75261

972-456-1173

___________________________________________________________________

FAA:

Email: [email protected]

Scott McHugh-Federal Security Adm
703-661-6070
___________________________________________________________

Dept of Transportation

[email protected]

This is for complaints.

____________________________________________________________

I will post more detail as I am able to obtain them.

Bob

[SpeedRacer 1]

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One question I have is this, why isn't USPA keeping a bit more visibility in this issue?

well I thinkthisisan important issue. IN THE LAST few issues of Parachutist, USPA has issued a bunch of ads that start with: "Hey USPA, what have you done for me lately?" Well this would be a good place for them to put their cards on the table, since most people have Cypres AAD's in their rigs. I've been paying these guys every year, even years when I haven't been able to jump, so lets see them walk up to the plate & kick some ass!!

Speed Racer
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[Jessica 0]

I got a response from the TSA -- a bullshit, form-letter response. It's obvious that a human didn't even read my e-mail.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[dbattman 0]

We all need to be careful how we handle this as individuals. If TSA starts asking you questions at the airport, watch what you say and how you explain the AAD. Some key words in this situation would be 'pyrotechnic', 'fire', 'cutter', and 'sever'.

But, once again I went through two TSA airports yesterday and had no issues.

[Gravitymaster 0]

We all have been through airports without it being an issue. Thats not the point.

Imagine yourself standing there with TSA and Air Line Security saying to you,

"This Cypres thing ain't allowed because it contains compressed gas".

Or:

"This Cypres thing ain't allowed because it contains an explosive."

What is your response going to be? "No it doesn't"?
I found out how far that will get you.

I got the same B.S. letter from TSA as Jessica did so tomorrow I'm going to call TSA and speak to a human being.

I tried to call Ed Scott at USPA today but he'e on vacation till Jan 2.
I also have the email address for the Delta Security Supervisor who made the decision to deny me boarding and I will send her an email once I have the information I am seeking fron Airtec and SSK if a satisfactory resolution hasn't been reach soon.

Thank you to all of you who care enough to get involved.

Bob

[homer 0]

Changing the subject a little. Starting Jan. 1,03 all bags being checked are to be scanned or hand inspected. What will happen to out gear? What of we have our luggage locked as I always do so that nobody can get into it. Will they contact me to open it or will they just cut my lock off? What about checked rigs? If they spot the cypres on the scanners they will have know idea what it is and may end up tearing the hell out of my rig trying to get to it. This is an issue as well. Our checked rigs will be more vulnerable to there possible mishandling than when it is on our person and we are watching them.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[Luna 0]

According to the TSA, yes, they will break the lock on your suitcase if they find cause to inspect it, then they will put a note in the bag indicating that it has been searched.

This is taken from USPA's web site in regards to the AAD's possibly triggering such a search:

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Checked Item
Beginning January 1, the TSA requires all checked items to be inspected before being placed on an airplane. The TSA is advising passengers not to lock checked bags so they can be opened for inspection. Tests involving USPA and TSA officials at the TSA facility in Atlantic City verified that AADs do not trigger explosive detection equipment used by airport security. TSA officials assured USPA that a hand search of a checked item should not occur if the item successfully passes through security systems that airports have installed.

Skydivers should be prepared, because isolated problems getting parachutes through security may still occur, typically requiring better communication with airport security personnel. Jumpers should carry and present USPA membership cards and/or FAA rigger certificates in the event their parachute is flagged. USPA advises jumpers to remain patient, cooperate and to provide USPA with the date, time, airport, and details of the problem, including whether the parachute rig was being transported as a carry-on or checked item.

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