military jumpers

[dandandan 0]

do you have to get some sort of special permission from your superiors before you can jump even if you are a regular? or is it what they dont know wont hurt them type thing?

I'd wait for you outside the courtoom.
Taunting; when all of your appeals were declined.

[txhoss 0]

I have read the Navy's high risk recreational activity instruction. It said nothing specific about skydiving.

I make sure that my command knows that I jump and then do my thing, I am not looking for some asshole to come up with a reason why I cant do what I want.

Have Rig will travel ...

[Beerlight 0]

I was in the Air Force, retired a few years ago. And actually, we were "encouraged" to do it.

As long as you received the mandated safety brief and it was signed off by your commander, it was blessed........But, sometimes....better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

[dandandan 0]

thats just the news that i wanted to hear, from just the branch that i wanted to hear from. im going to meps on monday looking to join the air force. thanks for the help.

I'd wait for you outside the courtoom.
Taunting; when all of your appeals were declined.

[Beerlight 0]

Awesome! Good luck and have fun. I miss it everyday.

edit to add: As long as your "high risk activity" of choice is sanctioned, then it's ok. I would imagine that while you are going thru any training, be it basic or tech school etc...., they prolly wouldn't agree to it. But my ole career field, 4M0X1 (Aerospace Physiology Specialist), ie., altitude chamber instructor.....loved us to do it. Sent me to all the survival schools too!

[jtval 0]

Your chain of command can not dictate what you do on your time off as long as it is in legal boundries.

It is in your best interest to fill out a high risk activity waiver. If you get hurt or killed skydiving and you do not notify your chain of command they can do a line of duty determination and refuse to pay for your health care.

The basic reason for the waiver is to inform them that you are getting the proper training and using good sense etc...

If you and a friend found a junked out a/c and "got it running" then went to a surplus store to get parachute gear and start hucking yourselves out of it they may tell you you can not use that avenue for your training.

In the Air Force "high risk activities" vary from base to base so go in and sign the thing. I have NEVER, in the 10 years I've been jumping, had an issue with "being allowed."

My photos

My Videos

[hypsin 0]

Quote

Your chain of command can not dictate what you do on your time off as long as it is in legal boundries.

Actually they can and they do. Last time I checked - my ass belonged to the government. Anything happens to it (even sunburn) and I could be charged with damaging government property.

Could vary from service to service but while active in USMC I was not allowed to skydive (command would not authorize such high-risk activity). Something about having a critical skillset... I could still do it but if I got hurt I'd lose rank and would have to pay the med bills. Had to wait till I got out.

So yeah - make sure you inform your command and have that waiver signed.

[Iceburner 0]

I'm in the USMC, and my chain of command doesn't care...however i did show them some videos of my jumps, explain what skydiving really is (not the media version), and explain that i had an AAD and what that does, just to give them a warm n fuzzy. Also, i've been told that you should always wear full fingered gloves, and a helmet just as if you were riding a motorcycle that way if something were to happen at least you can say you were wearing all appropriate safety gear...as little as gloves and a helmet would do if you hook it in, but yea... just my 2 cents

[hypsin 0]

My command had a devil who broke both legs on bad landing - so they were a bit biased to say the least... Education (statistics, proper training, proper gear, etc) didn't work since there was already a precedent...

[JerryBaumchen 1,050]

Hi hypsin,

Quote

Actually they can and they do. Last time I checked - my ass belonged to the government. Anything happens to it (even sunburn) and I could be charged with damaging government property.

It's been a couple of lifetimes since I was in but back then that is how it was.

We actually court-martialed a guy who got a really bad sunburn.

JerryBaumchen
Former USAF

[GaryRay 0]

Quote

Hi hypsin,

Quote

Actually they can and they do. Last time I checked - my ass belonged to the government. Anything happens to it (even sunburn) and I could be charged with damaging government property.

It's been a couple of lifetimes since I was in but back then that is how it was.

We actually court-martialed a guy who got a really bad sunburn.

JerryBaumchen
Former USAF

wow you guys are dick's! =D. USMC just finishing my term and going on terminal next month (w00t!). my command knows about it, never signed shit, they just know b/c i speak about it, never had a problem. only time i was told no was on deployment but in my infinite wisdom i may or may not have listened in dubai and australia.

JewBag.
www.jewbag.wordpress.com

[Icon134 0]

I'm active Air Force, when I researched the requirements with regard to jumping a few years ago... I found that my Majcom didn't have a specific requirement for skydiving... It was recommended that I inform my chain of command.

In AETC however I was required to fill out a High risk activity worksheet. I was given clearance while I was getting my masters degree a few years ago... (I had a C-license and a coach rating and they actually waived the requirement to get the pre activity safety briefing...)

edited to add: It is important to note that if you travel anywhere to jump outside of your local area that you are on leave to that area to ensure you are covered.

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[shropshire 0]

Quote

active Air Force

- oxymoron




I did all of my early jumps in the RAF... they even paid for them

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Icon134 0]

Quote

Quote

active Air Force

- oxymoron

have you ever met a Pararescue jumper?

I think you would disagree...

and fwiw... I ran 7 miles before work this morning...

Livin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife...

[shropshire 0]

No but I've meet Woodpecker (posts here)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[PLFKING 3]

Quote

I have NEVER, in the 10 years I've been jumping, had an issue with "being allowed."

I didn't know the Air Force 'allowed' its male members to carry around purse dogs.


Don

"When in doubt I whip it out,
I got me a rock-and-roll band.
It's a free-for-all."

[millertime24 8]

You have to fill out a form 410 (see link) and have your commander sign it. Its pretty easy actually. Just be very liberal on the training and previous experience part, and be as vauge as possible on the hazzards part (ie. for hazzards i simply put "Including, but not limited to, possible fractures, internal injuries, or dislocations.").

http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/aetc410.xfdl

Muff #5048

[matthewcline 0]

Car break down?

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[jtval 0]

Quote

Actually they can and they do. Last time I checked - my ass belonged to the government. Anything happens to it (even sunburn) and I could be charged with damaging government property.

Could vary from service to service but while active in USMC I was not allowed to skydive (command would not authorize such high-risk activity). Something about having a critical skillset... I could still do it but if I got hurt I'd lose rank and would have to pay the med bills. Had to wait till I got out.

So yeah - make sure you inform your command and have that waiver signed.

NO, they can not! If you were charged with "sunburn" it's because you were so drunk and stupid that you passed out in the mid day sun and they have no other way of weeding you out. I had a friend who WAS that stupid and he got a letter of reprimand.
As far as activities go they can not dictate what you do as long as it is within legal bounds.
I broke my collar bone playing ultimate frisbee. It WAS stupid but I never even got spoken to, as far as "reprimand" goes.
So did you have to ask permission to go and have a few drinks on the weekend ,too?
That is by far the worst incident rate that the military deal with.

Dandan , what service are you in? We'll hear all kinds of ridiculous "my service is more strict than yours" replies here but let's talk about YOUR service.

My photos

My Videos

[hypsin 0]

Government spends good amount of $$$ to get "work force" trained and ready. Now, if they determine that there are some of your "legal free time activities" have a good chance of putting their investment on limited duty/nondeployable/dead- hell yes they will have a say on what you can and can't do in your free time.

Not to turn this into a pissing match - but by being in military you do lose some of your rights - some legal activities have to be cleared before hand (Example: Servicewomen getting in trouble for posing for Playboy) and some legal places are off-limits (TJ, high gang/crime areas). It is an extreme and usually they leave you alone to do whatever you want in your free time but that does not mean that when shit hits the fan you will be in the clear.

So, basically - yes they can control what you do / where you go in your free time.

[jtval 0]

I am aware of the $$ they spend.

The chick posing for playboy was stupid because she acted as if she represented the military. I wonder if she posed as Jane Simpleton if she would have had a less severe punishment; but she posed as G.I. Jane. That was stupid.

Yes, anything we do as "media relations" has to be cleared.

I have only heard of pilots who are in training being temporarily "suspended" from skydiving.

Your job may be so critical and undermanned that that is what your supervision said but I have not heard of any situations that they refused to anyone go skydiving.

As I said "Students, in training" is the only situation where the were put on hold.
Pilot training slots are limited and they try to limit the amount of folks that wash out. Injury is a bad way to create an empty slot.


TJ, High gang areas you spoke of are not in legal bounds due to all the drugs and crap that go on there. It's safer to just stay away from it.

My advice to Dandan is still "go fill out the waiver."
If you are afriad to fill out the wiaver than you should stop skydiving. With out your C.O.C. being informed you risk the line of duty determination weighing against you.

My photos

My Videos

[matthewcline 0]

Yes, they can and if they need to, they will. Dandan is not in yet, if you read his original post he said he was going to MEPS.

Ask the people at Rucker what the rules are, ask the folks in SF's Q, or the folks at Benning when they go to school, and this is just ONE service. In the US the Services have the Authority, by contract, to dictate your daily activities. They can make activities and Places OFF LIMITS. Thay can place retrictions or additional rules on the activites and if you break the rules make you pay for it, not only by taking pay and time. If injured while doing it, have you may have to pay for your medical bills.

Yes, most Unit Commands (not School Commands) will allow you to do high risk activities. But it is still best to KNOW what the policy is and not beleive shit house/barracks lawyers. I have had the misfortune of being tasked to assist in several Army 15-6 investigations and most ended up in the Soldiers favor, but barely.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[jtval 0]

I didn't get to read his original post.

My advice to Dandan is still the same. Fill out the waiver or stop jumping.
In basic they definitely will not allow him to jump.

My photos

My Videos

[merino007 0]

I'm a flier in the AF. I fucked up my ankle skydiving and wasn't able to fly for a few weeks. They didn't say much but if happens often (start to miss work)I'm pretty sure I'll get banned due to the fact that now I'm losing work because of it.

Everything in excess is bad... except skydiving and sex!

[CDRINF 1]

Hmmm...all very interesting comments. Always funny that many, civilians especially think we have more rules in the military than we really do.

As a an Army O-6 and former battalion commander with almost 23 years service (god, wasn't I a 2LT skydiving at Fort Campbell just a little while ago?) I think I can comment with some authority, and maybe clear up some myths from a larger perspective.

Despite what lot of us think when we are down in the trenches, there is no big THEY who can swoop down from on high and get you in trouble for stuff you do. Bottom line is that only your immediate commander can ever prosecute you for anything, unless the higher command has withheld the authority to deal with a particular offense. The safety office, the IG, and the JAG can give their opinion, but they do not command the unit. Lawyers advise, commanders decide, as they say. There is no big reg out there that says "no skydiving" or even "you have to get permission to skydive"; it doesn't exist.

The commander does have broad legal power (more than many realize, to include the commanders themselves) to deal with anything he feels hurts the good order and discipline of his unit. That said, most are not dumb enough to try to dictate un-enforceable policy about off duty activities. If a commander said "no skydiving" then what about skiing, scuba diving, or other sports that risk injury? There is a very prominent serving 4-star who I am told that when he was a brigade Cdr, tried to direct that no officer in his Bde would ride a motorcycle. His higher commander and the IG advised that this was probably not a smart policy to have and he dropped the issue (so you see, mean old colonels can be influenced, too ). When I was at Fort Campbell, a young private who wanted to go through the Campbell Club first jump course said his platoon sergeant wouldn't let him until he graduated from Air Assault school. I called the guy asked if his company commander had a policy about this? He said no, it was just his decision. I told him he was out of line and that as a command supported MWR activity, he could not stop soldiers from participating anymore than he could stop them from going to the bowling alley. So, be on the lookout for those who overstep their authority.

School situations are a bit different. You are on orders to get that training during a specific period of time and the Army (or whoever) wants you healthy and able to get through training in the minimum time. So, you may run in to some military schools that have a policy of not allowing high risk activities during the period of the course. There's a reason we don't let privates drink or even drive a car during basic training, and it's probably pretty sound.

The comments above about "In Line of Duty" determination are spot on. If you are jumping TSO'd gear and following BSRs, you are okay. Jump an out of date reserve on a bandit jump low pull contest, and the LOD officer will probably hold you "not in line of duty" for recklessly engaging in thrill or dare-devil activities. You now get to pay your own medical bills.

Throughout your career, understand that there are people out there who think it is their job to tell you "no" (like the PSG above) and if you ask enough people for permission, you will find that person. Check the regs and get the facts but beyond that my philosophy, on the job or off, was to not go asking questions I really didn't want the answer to. You really don't know what you can get away with until you try!

Good luck!

Blue Skies!

CDR