Spectre v. Sabre

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

Look at this, its my day to ask questions! Right now I am using a Spectre as my main, but as a favor to a friend I might be switching to his Sabre 1. From reading I understand the Sabre 1 has a history of hard openings. But what are the differences in flight between these two canopies. I like the way my Spectre opens (takes forever, but its on heading and soft) and they way it flies and want to make sure I will enjoy the Sabre also. Any thoughts?

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www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[tigra 0]

I went from a Sabre1 to a Spectre and I would never go back! Hope he's a good friend.

[mr2mk1g 10]

If anything you'll probably enjoy the flight characteristics of the sabre more... that said "enjoy" is subjective and all but if there were a "fun factor" on canopies I think the sabre would have slightly more stars than the spectre.

As far as specifics go, the sabre will have a slightly better glide and will be easier to surf the landing... given that the landing will be slightly different pay attention to what you're doing. You've already picked up on the difference in the openings.

Now watch for all the replies saying they think the spectre's more fun - didn't I say it was subjective.

[Mostly_Harmless 0]

He is a good friend, but I am thinking my spectre is a better friend , so before I do the switch I just want some opinions.

_________________________________________
www.myspace.com/termvelocity

[tigra 0]

My Sabre did have a flatter glide, I guess. That's about all. Plus he's talking about the original Sabre, one that probably has quite a few jumps on it, and sorry but they are well known for their lousy openings. There's a reason they were redesigned; about the only characteristic the new sabre shares with the original is its name. (I was ready to make a jacket out of mine when I retired it after 500 jumps!)

[skybytch 259]

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want to make sure I will enjoy the Sabre also.

Jump it a few times before making your decision... then instead of knowing what we think (which is of course "whatever I jump is the best") you'll know what you think.

[tigra 0]

But MY canopy really is the best!

Seriously, as Lisa said, don't commit to a permanent swap. Make a couple of jumps on his canopy, let him jump yours. Then when he wants to keep yours, wrestle it back from him and be a good friend by helping him find one of his own!

And do be very careful packing it. They've been known to bite even when you do everything right, and they aren't real forgiving of sloppy packing!

[damion75 0]

Like the man says, it is subjective what is fun... but I had a Spectre and loved it. Bear in mind also that the Spectre is a tapered 'semi-elliptical' planform to the Sabre 1's old rectangle style. So it does turn harder and faster.

Have a look at the PD website and see what they have to say about the Spectre characteristics (I doubt that the Sabre 1 stuff is still on there)

and the surf is all about the pilot - my buddy flies a Sabre1 170 when I was on my Spectre 170 (about the same loading) I pretty much always surfed further because I wanted to...

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Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[tigra 0]

I watched someone swoop our hangar in a Spectre, so I know you can surf them!

[peregrinerose 0]

Your life depends on that canopy, so might not be the best idea on earth to trade as a favor to a friend
I'm in the same situation right now, I lost a lot of weight, so going from a Sabre1 170 to either a Spectre or Sabre2. I'm on the waiting list to borrow both from PD and compare how they fly, and go with the one I have more fun with and feel more comfortable with.

I pack at the DZ so have already asked all the Spectre and Sabre2 owners what they think, and of course they all have different opinions, and all of them said there is no 'better', it is personal opinion.

My rigger said that if I planned to get into video eventually, Spectre is a better option, and that you can do some CRW with Spectre, but not Sabre2.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Elisha 1]

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(I was ready to make a jacket out of mine when I retired it after 500 jumps!)

Bah! My Sabre 150 has about 1000 jumps and a Mfg date of '91 (first made in 89, Sabre2 in 2001), but it is my first rig and flies fine - still plenty of life.

[tigra 0]

I was talked out of the jacket plan and as far as I know, the canopy is still in service somewhere.

[phoenixlpr 0]

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Your life depends on that canopy, so might not be the best idea on earth to trade as a favor to a friendSmile

Wrong . BEEEP.

You life is depending on your reserve, my friend.

[Salsa_John 0]

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Look at this, its my day to ask questions! Right now I am using a Spectre as my main, but as a favor to a friend I might be switching to his Sabre 1. From reading I understand the Sabre 1 has a history of hard openings. But what are the differences in flight between these two canopies. I like the way my Spectre opens (takes forever, but its on heading and soft) and they way it flies and want to make sure I will enjoy the Sabre also. Any thoughts?

I switched from a Sabre 1 to a Spectre and have great soft and on heading opens. My accuracy greatly increased with the spectre. I think the spectre has a steeper glide slope but I get plenty of distance in rear risers.

I would also try a pilot for comparison as well as a Sabre 2.

This is my experience only. Talk to your instructors before you change

"You did what?!?!"

MUFF #3722, TDSM #72, Orfun #26, Nachos Rodriguez

[kelpdiver 2]

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Wrong . BEEEP.

You life is depending on your reserve, my friend.

half the fatalities in the sport are people flying their main. Seems to matter.

Nevermind all the sabre hard opening threads of late - I never worried so much about that risk before, even not owning a sabre1.

[phoenixlpr 0]

And what is the reason that you may pack your sport main and you are not allowed to pack your sport reserve?

And how many of them died by trying a new main ? You might know how to try a new main, don't you?

[tigra 0]

I second the suggestion to try a Pilot. Its a nice 9 cell with a flatter glide and reliable, soft on heading openings.

[nbblood 0]

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Wrong . BEEEP.

You life is depending on your reserve, my friend.

Exactly what good is your reserve when you realize you're on the wrong canopy at landing time? By your rationale they might as well get themselves a Velo 79.....after all their life only depends on their reserve.....right? Your life may very well depend on your main canopy selection.

Blues,
Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Yeah, and your excellent common sense.

Edit: spelling

[vt1977 0]

Here is a post I wrote when I had just jumped a Spectre for the first time after quite a few jumps on Sabre1s.

hth!

Vicki

[EricaH 0]

I love my Spectre, but was thinking of switching to a 9 cell just for the get back ability.

Then I got to chat w/ Isaih from PD when was at our dz, he said (and I quote cause I didn't believe him) "Spectres have the flattest glide ration of all PD canopies. This means when flying down wind, they will go the furthest. However, when trying to get back flying up wind using breaks or rear risers will have less of a beneficial affect than if you were on a different PD canopy, so you'd effectually not be able to get back as far."

So, I'm sticking w/ my wonderfully soft/onheading/nice faster turning/actually can surf Spectre.

JMHO.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[mikelewis 0]

Here's my $0.02

As a preamble...

Square/Semi & Elliptical???

Please be aware that most canopies today, that are called square are indeed semi-elliptical to a certain extent. The term elliptical has become a synonym for a fast high-performance canopy.. This is not the case... It is many other characteristics of the wing that make it high performance!


OK Now onto your question!

Sabre 1: (9 cell)
This was not specifically designed as a canopy, let me explain... The original PD170 for example was made of F111 material, then following testing on ZP material and the fact it lasts longer, makes for a more rigid wing etc., the PD-F111 designs were recut in ZP and the SABRE 1 was born. So you have a tried and tested design in F111 that was recut in ZP.

Thousands were sold and back in the day, 10 years ago-ish, it was the best entry level 9 cell, ZP Square on the market... Copied by many manufacturers around the world.

OPENINGS:
There are reports and I have personal experience of erratic openings (neck slammers) on Sabre 1's BUT ... Please also note: Typically the SABRE1 canopies, typically in the 150-170-190-210 are jumped by relatively low experienced jumpers, where packing and body position on pull could be an issue also.
(FYI: I have jumped SA190, SA170, SA150, SA135, SA120 & SA107)

Bottom line is: SABRE 1 - awesome in it's day, but that was a while ago.

and now...

SPECTRE: (7 cell)
The spectre was specifically designed with ZP material in mind and was also designed for a market where softer openings were important to the owner than fast speeds and radical turns (Although you can kill or seriously injure yourself on ANY Parachute, please remember that!)

I have jumped spectres, never owned one, but the overbearing fact in the world today, is generally their owners love them!

Spectre owners are typically not swoopers, radical hookturners, etc., they are typically modest canopy pilots that want softer openings and want to fly a well made chute back to the ground in one piece. Spectres are popular with cameraflyers for the openings.

(FYI: I have jumped SP170, SP150 & SP135)

SURFING:
Of course, as with any square, ellipitical or semi-elliptical canopy, get educated, up the wing loading and start a turn at the right height to plane out at the right height above the ground and you will surf it!
Although I am very interested to see how far Damion75 can "surf" a SP170?? lol

Cheers, Mike

Advanced Body Flight Co-ordinator
Formation Skydiving Coach # 547
Canopy Handling Coach # 46

[damion75 0]

Hey Mo'Fo! It was a beautiful May morning and I did a 120 carve to final, and went from 20ft short of one side of the pit, clear across and out about 10ft the other side, low enough to hit the mattress with my foot as I went past... and no... I didn't stand it up! I was too busy being pleased with it!!

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[rhys 0]

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I love my Spectre, but was thinking of switching to a 9 cell just for the get back ability.
So, I'm sticking w/ my wonderfully soft/onheading/nice faster turning/actually can surf Spectre

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get a safire

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

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[mikelewis 0]

Careful there... I am sure that you are not doing carving 120 degree turns(risers or toggles) on a BPA DZ without CP Coaching or a CP1 rating?? Are you??

Please be careful! It's one thing to wear a Katana T Shirt, it's another to do something radical close to the ground, without the proper coaching. Even a double front riser straight in can hurt you, you should have seen the guy at Nethers last weekend, Double-front straight in, started the flare, accidently dropped a toggle and hooked in at 30feet... Knocked out, but could have been dead!

It's not a high-performance canopy, by any means, but you can still hurt or kill yourself on your Vision 150 mate!

If I am wrong, and you have CP1... Didn't know... Well done but still be careful!

If you want help with CP2, just let me know, the criteria is 500 logged swoops (not jumps) then 3 consecutive runs over a carving course of 185 feet, through 10 foot entry and exit gates...

Cheers, Mike

Mike Lewis

RAW Flight Club
Canopy Handling / Piloting School
CH Coach #46