The consequences of jumping in turbulence (pics)

[mik 2]

This sequesnce of pictures was taken at my home DZ in Russia about a month ago. Lots of turbulance at 3000 feet and below, to the extent that me and lots of others stopped jumping. At the time of this incident, A and B licence holders were grounded. Guys I know with 15,000 + jumps had already grounded themselves.

The picture sequence shows someone with something like 700 - 800 jumps with a main of something like a 150 coming in for a landing - straight in approach, no turns etc. Before the first photo, the canopy twisted in half and then pitched down. My russian is far from perfect but I understand the jumper suffered a broken neck, open fracture of elbow and femur, foot smashed and lost a litre or so of blood on the ground (according to the 2 doctors who are always on site)

Just before the incident, low jump number jumpers were arguing with dz control that they were happy with the conditions and did not believe they should be grounded

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I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[porpoishead 5]

seriously brutal pics...

better to be on the ground and wishing you were up in the air, then the other way around....

hope he heals fast.

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[Hvance 0]

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seriously brutal pics...

better to be on the ground and wishing you were up in the air, then the other way around....

hope he heals fast.

I thought of that same quote. Sad.

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[tbrown 26]

So sorry to see these pics, I'm just grateful the poor guy wasn't killed.

Days like this are the days when experienced jumpers sit back and watch everyone else get experience.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Amazon 7]

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So sorry to see these pics, I'm just grateful the poor guy wasn't killed.

Days like this are the days when experienced jumpers sit back and watch everyone else get experience.

I have told plenty of people that my D-license number is low enough that I do not need to jump when it will be far more interesting to sit and watch others.

[porpoishead 5]

did he apply input with the toggles when he encountered the turbulence???

wouldn't a canopy collapse or a stall on landing lay you down on your back....from the pics it looks like the canopy is in a dive the whole time... it hit the ground before he did

loss of lift with what forward speed you already have.. would put you ahead of the canopy am I missing something ???

edit to add: maybe a case of turning too hard into a strong wind than a collapse

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[mik 2]

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did he apply input with the toggles when he encountered the turbulence???

I don't know but the turbulence was bad from about 3,000 feet and the pictures were in taken a sequence lasting no more than one or two seconds. I believe he had his hands up high for landing

wouldn't a canopy collapse or a stall on landing lay you down on your back....from the pics it looks like the canopy is in a dive the whole time... it hit the ground before he did

loss of lift with what forward speed you already have.. would put you ahead of the canopy am I missing something ???

edit to add: maybe a case of turning too hard into a strong wind than a collapse

He was flying straight in to land with no turns for at least the last 500 feet (my guess).

This was a canopy that was flying straight and nothing appeared wrong until the collapse, followed by the impact very quickly afterwards.

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I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[porpoishead 5]

yeah i read your post the first time....

from the pics though it looks like a steep dive i just dont understand how a collapsed canopy is gonna out fly you to the ground with you above it at full line stretch...........maybe I'm just stupid

some more bold print might help me

edit to add: looks pretty well pressurized in the pics too

in the effort to not sound like too much of a smart ass. I am just trying to tell you that the pictures paint a different picture than what you are describing as a straight in approach with a canopy collapse....the pictures show a pressurized canopy out-flying a jumper to the ground and impacting slightly before the jumper.

where you a direct eyewitness??

were you the one taking the pictures??

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[grimmie 176]

I have seen a "Pressurized" canopy come out of a twist and send a jumper into the dirt exactly like that at a boogie a few years ago. I thought he hooked it in too, but it was the turbulence.

[porpoishead 5]

thats why i was asking if he indeed witnessed or what..

i had a collapse when i first started out from a rookie mistake high winds, I brought it in too close downwind of the hanger, and pounded in in a similar fashion except i impacted on my back with the canopy behind me which made sense, not facing the ground with the canopy ahead...

just weird scenario i guess doesn't make much sense. if the canopy collapses and loses its airspeed then there's a lot of surface are creating drag now slowing it down as the momentum takes your body forward passing up the fabric just flailing in the breeze...some slack in the lines something...

i dunno maybe collapse is not the proper term is what I'm getting at...might be a turbulence related crash but it does not appear to be a collapsed canopy from the pics.

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[Beachbum 0]

Try it up high ... I learned in a Scott Miller class when he had us intentionally stall. If you get your canopy into a full stall and then let up on the toggles very quickly, it tends to surge rather quickly into a dive for a little bit before it settles out again. I wonder if a partial collapse from turbulence could cause the same behavior as the canopy regains it's form?

As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[porpoishead 5]

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Try it up high ..

thanks for the heads up bro

if you want a friend feed any animal
Perry Farrell

[mik 2]

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yeah i read your post the first time....

from the pics though it looks like a steep dive i just dont understand how a collapsed canopy is gonna out fly you to the ground with you above it at full line stretch...........maybe I'm just stupid

some more bold print might help me

edit to add: looks pretty well pressurized in the pics too

in the effort to not sound like too much of a smart ass. I am just trying to tell you that the pictures paint a different picture than what you are describing as a straight in approach with a canopy collapse....the pictures show a pressurized canopy out-flying a jumper to the ground and impacting slightly before the jumper.

where you a direct eyewitness??

were you the one taking the pictures??

Yes I was a direct eye witness. A friend sitting next to me took the photos. It was absolutely a straight-in approach with no turns whatsoever.

FWIW I heard, although did not see, that at about the same time a swooper was in deep brakes at about 1000 feet and also had a collapsed canopy. The story I was told was that it reinflated at a couple of hundred feet. It was a very turbulent on that day.

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I'm NOT totally useless... I can be used as a bad example

[Squeak 17]

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in the effort to not sound like too much of a smart ass.

I am just trying to tell you that the pictures paint a different picture than what you are describing as a straight in approach with a canopy collapse....the pictures show a pressurized canopy out-flying a jumper to the ground and impacting slightly before the jumper.

where you a direct eyewitness??

were you the one taking the pictures??

1stly FAIL

2ndly Turbulence can effect a canopy in many ways collapsing it is just one way

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[jakee 1,257]

Why do you assume that a turbulence related collapse is going to be symmetrical, and why do you assume that a canopy collapse can only hurt you if the canopy remains collapsed until impact?

If the left hand side of your canopy collapses at 50 ft and then reinflates during the ensuing turn, what's that going to look like?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[pchapman 262]

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1stly FAIL

God forbid someone should ask a question here to try to learn something. He presented what he understood of such situations, and people answered about how that knowledge was incomplete and added more useful information. That's all.

[kkeenan 13]

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Just before the incident, low jump number jumpers were arguing with dz control that they were happy with the conditions and did not believe they should be grounded

Some things are universal.

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Dude, you are so awesome...
Can I be on your ash jump ?

[azureriders 0]

Yes the pictures show an inflated canopy at full line stretch, but look at the body position of the pilot. When you turn your canopy, do you flail like that?

OK, bad question, when most pilots turn their canopies, do they flail like that?

This very much so looks like the canopy at least partially collapsed, reinflated asymetricaly and abruptly went into a dive, leaving the pilot's body to try and catch up with the flight path after a severe jerk. I would say painting a picture just like the OP described.

As said up thread, turbulance can affect a canopy in many more ways than just a collapse, and although it will normally recover in a descently straight line of flight, this is not always the case.

[muff528 3]

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Just before the incident, low jump number jumpers were arguing with dz control that they were happy with the conditions and did not believe they should be grounded

Some things are universal.

Yep! I learned my lesson (~100 jumps) after a dodgy landing in a ditch and ripped my pilot chute on a tree branch. I took my PC to the loft to get repaired and it was pointed out to me that all the experienced jumpers were inside watching TV.

[Hvance 0]

Can someone clarify how turbulence is caused at 3000 feet? I think I understand the basics (trees, buildings, etc blocking wind) but what is the cause that high up?

I wish Google Maps had an "Avoid Ghetto" routing option.

[kallend 1,635]

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Just before the incident, low jump number jumpers were arguing with dz control that they were happy with the conditions and did not believe they should be grounded

Some things are universal.

Like the most predictable thing about turbulence is its unpredictable effect.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Trinka 0]

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Can someone clarify how turbulence is caused at 3000 feet? I think I understand the basics (trees, buildings, etc blocking wind) but what is the cause that high up?

Turbulence is any form of chaotic change in the wind direction, and doesn't come from obstacles only. It can also come from the air rising up because of the hot ground. You can really notice that when flying over drying cut grass, roads or asphalt runways, or really hot days. Also turbulence from obstacles can reach really high and far, especially if there are high mountains around.

[bigbearfng 9]

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Can someone clarify how turbulence is caused at 3000 feet? I think I understand the basics (trees, buildings, etc blocking wind) but what is the cause that high up?

Also keep in mind dust devils-and if they come in over grass or the runway there won't be any dust in them to see. They've scared the crap outta me before!

[ridestrong 1]

Dryer climates also seem to generate more turbulent conditions.... as do higher altitude ground levels (thinner air).

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[rhanold 0]

I question if this was completely due to turbulence also. To me that second picture looks like a inflated canopy with left toggle input which suggests that the turn might have been started by a gust but was most likely accelerated by pilot input. I think someone already pointed it out but the pilot looks to be "flailing" also suggesting a panic mentality that could have resulted in a reaction that worsened the situation.

This is of course my opinion feel free to disagree.

Good advice I was given once that I will always remember is "Fly your canopy until your canopy is on the ground." whether or not it applies here is to be debated but good advice none the less.

hope the pilot heals fast.

Ryan