BillyVance 34 #26 November 2, 2009 Quote I've known 3 guys who have made 4 ejections. Only one claimed to have enjoyed it in the least. It's a rough ride. US Marine pilot Capt Jimbo Wilson, aka Capn Cuervo, had I believe 3 or 4 ejections during the Vietnam War when his plane was hit by AA fire. The most harrowing one was when he was strafing the jungle maybe 100 feet off the treetops. His plane got hit, and because he was going so fast, his plane tilted nose down, tail up, and he knew he was going to crash, and ejected. I don't know how the fuck he survived that, but he ended up with a broken back and arm and lacerations, all of which he fully recovered from. My memory is a bit sketchy since it's been 12 years since he related the experience to me. His ejector seat had been hanging in the corner of the famous Trader Jon's bar in Pensacola where all the Navy and Marine personnel liked to go for a good time, and there was a plaque next to the seat chronicling his experiences as well. He became a skydiver and is one of the friendliest people you'd ever meet. He'd give you the shirt off his back if you needed something. When I was at Emerald Coast and wanting to do a beach jump, but didn't have flotation gear, someone said Capn sells them. So I went up to him and said, I'd like to buy one of your flotation fanny packs. He promptly handed me one of his personalized Capn Cuervo fanny packs, and I started to pull my wallet out and he shook his head "keep it". I still have it in the closet somewhere. Love that guy. Still jumps, but lately has spent most of his time offering thrill rides in his WWII planes. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tiger6513 0 #27 November 2, 2009 Yeah I definetly understand why ejecting is a last resort... they are usually moving pretty damn fast and being tossed out with rockets under there asses... not so much funTravis Roy Foundation. At very least its a tax write off Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #28 November 2, 2009 In the US, perhaps under definition 2... Quote Skydive 1: The descent of a person to the surface from an aircraft in flight when he or she uses or intends to use a parachute during all or part of that descent. 2: To jump from an aircraft with a parachute. In the Netherlands, definition two does not apply; it's only a skydive if it's er, pre-meditated."That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #29 November 2, 2009 Quote In the US, perhaps under definition 2... Quote Skydive 1: The descent of a person to the surface from an aircraft in flight when he or she uses or intends to use a parachute during all or part of that descent. 2: To jump from an aircraft with a parachute. In the Netherlands, definition two does not apply; it's only a skydive if it's er, pre-meditated. I would think that a person who ejects from an aircraft intends to use the parachute (the unintentional nature of the actual ejection event notwithstanding.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #30 November 2, 2009 Yes, I seem to have misunderstood that sentance. I've always read it as "intended prior to boarding the plane". Interesting. Dutch rule: "Parachute jump or jump: An intended descent from an in-flight airplane or airship, during which a person intends to use a parachute". "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #31 November 2, 2009 Do I log my first jump if there was no rig involved?Henry Bivins gave me the honorary title of a "Bag" after we met back in 1985 I also got my first skydiver shirt from him. I had gone to jump school at Ft. Benning but was not a skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #32 November 2, 2009 Quote Yes, I seem to have misunderstood that sentance. I've always read it as "intended prior to boarding the plane". Interesting. Dutch rule: "Parachute jump or jump: An intended descent from an in-flight airplane or airship, during which a person intends to use a parachute". OK.....so let's say your skydiving jumpship has an in-flight emergency. You exit at a very low altitude and you deploy your reserve to save yourself. Do you get to log that one in Holland? I would think that by your "Dutch rule" above that the act of ejecting from the aircraft establishes his intent. By leaving the a/c he does intend to make a "descent from an in-flight airplane or airship......" and he "intends to use a parachute". He may not have intended to to make that jump when he got in the plane but, what the heck, s**t happens. That's why you have a reserve in the first place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #33 November 2, 2009 How long must it be premeditated? If I am outside an aircraft in flight, use of a parachute is definitely on my mind. Surely it passed through the person's mind shortly before the chute inflated? I can't see my way clear to exclude this person from the skydiving community. They at least have the curiosity needed. The most important part of the jump is to pull. That was accomplished. I doubt they can log a stand-up landing, however. I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertimeunc 0 #34 November 2, 2009 Quote Out of wikipedia: Aircraft designed for low-level use sometimes have ejection seats which fire through the canopy, as waiting for the canopy to be ejected is too slow. Many aircraft types (e.g., the BAe Hawk and the Harrier line of aircraft) use Canopy Destruct systems, which have an explosive cord (MDC - Miniature Detonation Cord or FLSC - Flexible Linear Shaped Charge) embedded within the acrylic plastic of the canopy. The MDC is initiated when the eject handle is pulled, and shatters the canopy over the seat a few milliseconds before the seat is launched. Through-Canopy Penetration is similar to Canopy Destruct, but a sharp spike on the top of the seat, known as the "shell tooth," strikes the underside of the canopy and shatters it. The A-10 Thunderbolt II is equipped with canopy breakers on either side of its headrest in the event that the canopy fails to jettison. In ground emergencies, a ground crewman or pilot can use a breaker knife attached to the inside of the canopy to shatter the transparency. The A-6 Intruder and EA-6 Prowler seats are capable of ejecting through the canopy, with canopy jettison a separate option if there is enough time. CD and TCP systems cannot be used with canopies made of flexible materials, such as the Lexan polycarbonate canopy used on the F-16. I'm not sure what the PC-7 has, but "thru the canopy" is not unheard of. John Not sure if the design is the same as the T-6 (a PC-9 modified for training by the US Air Force), but the T-6's we trained on had glass canopies with embedded charges which were detonated when you pulled the handle and initiated the ejection sequence. As a backup, the top of each seat comes to a sharp metal point to punch through the glass should the charges fail That said, though, the seats and explosives are designed to save your life, NOT to be comfortable! There were 4 ejections at Columbus about 2 years ago, and I heard that they were picking glass out of the pilots' skin a week later! The best things in life are dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #35 November 2, 2009 QuoteCool, thanks for that! Most of my ejection seat education was when Goose was killed from the impact of striking the canopy while ejecting from Maverick's F-14 in Top Gun. So I figured that was, you know, the authoritative source. Which really happens, the Pilot that madde an emergency ejection over our neighborhood was killed by a broken neck too, Teh navy tride to say he broke his neck when his parachute hit powerlines! (BULLSHIT) I saw him with Binoculors while under canopy, his neck was broke, an he was dead! The Jet crashed into a hanger at our local airport, cutting the legs off a helecopter mechanic! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #36 November 2, 2009 Quote Which really happens, the Pilot that madde an emergency ejection over our neighborhood was killed by a broken neck too, I thought that was pretty Hollywood when Goose got killed hitting the canopy like that, then I found out 1- Those A model F-14's had flame out/flat spin problems and . . . 2- The canopy is supposed to be swept away in the slipstream during a normal ejection sequence. Flat spin=little slipstream= good chance of ejecting right into your canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,571 #37 November 2, 2009 Quote Quote Which really happens, the Pilot that madde an emergency ejection over our neighborhood was killed by a broken neck too, I thought that was pretty Hollywood when Goose got killed hitting the canopy like that, then I found out 1- Those A model F-14's had flame out/flat spin problems and . . . 2- The canopy is supposed to be swept away in the slipstream during a normal ejection sequence. Flat spin=little slipstream= good chance of ejecting right into your canopy. If #2 is true, that would mean the F-14 seats were not zero-zero capable. (0 airspeed, 0 altitude). I would be very skeptical of that. I am aware of an F-16 incident, in which the a/c was yawed during ejection, and the canopy decapitated the pilot as it left."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutumbo 0 #38 November 2, 2009 Quote Quote Which really happens, the Pilot that madde an emergency ejection over our neighborhood was killed by a broken neck too, I thought that was pretty Hollywood when Goose got killed hitting the canopy like that, then I found out 1- Those A model F-14's had flame out/flat spin problems and . . . 2- The canopy is supposed to be swept away in the slipstream during a normal ejection sequence. Flat spin=little slipstream= good chance of ejecting right into your canopy. that sounds like a great design Thanatos340(on landing rounds)-- Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #39 November 2, 2009 Quote Quote Which really happens, the Pilot that madde an emergency ejection over our neighborhood was killed by a broken neck too, I thought that was pretty Hollywood when Goose got killed hitting the canopy like that, then I found out 1- Those A model F-14's had flame out/flat spin problems and . . . 2- The canopy is supposed to be swept away in the slipstream during a normal ejection sequence. Flat spin=little slipstream= good chance of ejecting right into your canopy. Thsi one ejected at about 800/1200 feet, with the plane flying upside down....I walked out (ran actually) just in time to see the ejection, how th eplane got upside down, i don't know...How he managed to aim it at the only open field, (the airport) with 10 miles, is amazing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #40 November 3, 2009 Quote If #2 is true, that would mean the F-14 seats were not zero-zero capable. (0 airspeed, 0 altitude). I would be very skeptical of that. I am aware of an F-16 incident, in which the a/c was yawed during ejection, and the canopy decapitated the pilot as it left. Now that I research the web, I'm having trouble finding incidents of that nature. I'll keep looking. You worked on the F-16 for GD, didn't you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,571 #41 November 3, 2009 QuoteQuote If #2 is true, that would mean the F-14 seats were not zero-zero capable. (0 airspeed, 0 altitude). I would be very skeptical of that. I am aware of an F-16 incident, in which the a/c was yawed during ejection, and the canopy decapitated the pilot as it left. Now that I research the web, I'm having trouble finding incidents of that nature. I'll keep looking. You worked on the F-16 for GD, didn't you? While in college, I was in the co-op program with GD, spending a total of 3 semesters working at the Ft Worth facility where the F-16's were designed & built. We rotated through different depts, so of course being a skydiver, I opted for Escape Systems Design for one term. I was there in the late 80's, and learned of two nasty incidents with ejections during yawed maneuvers. One of those incidents caused the death of a European general's son. The second incident jammed/broke the canopy lever-linkage that activated the seats, resulting in the seat(s) not ejecting. That caused a redesign that replaced the linkage with a steel cable threaded through a fixed ring, so the ejection would occur regardless of which direction the canopy left. BTW If you want to see some really interesting ejections systems, check out the ones on the B-58, and on the F-111."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutumbo 0 #42 November 3, 2009 Quote Thsi one ejected at about 800/1200 feet, with the plane flying upside down....I walked out (ran actually) just in time to see the ejection, how th eplane got upside down, i don't know...How he managed to aim it at the only open field, (the airport) with 10 miles, is amazing! forgive my ignorance, but if he ejected that low, facing the ground, wouldnt he hit the ground before the chute ever thought about opening?Thanatos340(on landing rounds)-- Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #43 November 3, 2009 Quotethe F-111 IIRC, the F-111 (Aardvark?) was a side-by-side pilot/co-pilot configuration. I imagine the ejection seat for that would be very interesting.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,571 #44 November 3, 2009 QuoteQuotethe F-111 IIRC, the F-111 (Aardvark?) was a side-by-side pilot/co-pilot configuration. I imagine the ejection seat for that would be very interesting. Take a good look at the model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8l79lSjVMg Lots of details: http://www.f-111.net/ejection.htm"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 75 #45 November 3, 2009 QuoteQuote Thsi one ejected at about 800/1200 feet, with the plane flying upside down....I walked out (ran actually) just in time to see the ejection, how th eplane got upside down, i don't know...How he managed to aim it at the only open field, (the airport) with 10 miles, is amazing! forgive my ignorance, but if he ejected that low, facing the ground, wouldnt he hit the ground before the chute ever thought about opening? Many ejections systems make use of gyroscopes to which the ejection rockets are attached. (Vernier). These help to control the pitch of the seats. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Baksteen 84 #46 November 3, 2009 Just go back and *read* my se-cond post, will you? "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertimeunc 0 #47 November 3, 2009 Not necessarily. The ejection envelope for some of the better seats these days is as low as a few hundred feet inverted, but ONLY if you have enough airspeed, your descent rate isn't too high, your pitch angle isn't too low, etc. I wish I still had the CD of my T-6 technical manuals to back this up. Maybe beerlight can help if he's on here?The best things in life are dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #48 November 3, 2009 This is such a cool thread. Since there's no "Men's Forum" in here , it makes me want to paint my chest blue and watch re-runs of The Man Show. Woof! woof! woof! woof! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutumbo 0 #49 November 3, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuote Thsi one ejected at about 800/1200 feet, with the plane flying upside down....I walked out (ran actually) just in time to see the ejection, how th eplane got upside down, i don't know...How he managed to aim it at the only open field, (the airport) with 10 miles, is amazing! forgive my ignorance, but if he ejected that low, facing the ground, wouldnt he hit the ground before the chute ever thought about opening? Many ejections systems make use of gyroscopes to which the ejection rockets are attached. (Vernier). These help to control the pitch of the seats. Ooh, ok so if it was inverted like that, then instead of coming off at a 90ish degree angle, it would be adjusted, to a smaller degree so you dont get shot straight into the ground? neat.Thanatos340(on landing rounds)-- Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #50 November 3, 2009 QuoteNot necessarily. The ejection envelope for some of the better seats these days is as low as a few hundred feet inverted, but ONLY if you have enough airspeed, your descent rate isn't too high, your pitch angle isn't too low, etc. I wish I still had the CD of my T-6 technical manuals to back this up. Maybe beerlight can help if he's on here? ZERO/ZERO seats are quite common these days. But probably not on that type Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites