SkydiveJack 1 #1 October 22, 2010 Per Moderator Billvon- If anyone wants to post personal attacks on Dause (or wants to defend his virtue) please do so in SC or Bonfire. So...... where were we? News Story- The Federal Aviation Administration says it plans to fine William Dause, doing business as The Parachute Center of Acampo, $664,000 for allegedly failing to perform required aircraft parts replacements and failing to comply with safety directives. “Putting parachutists at risk by neglecting to follow safety procedures is unacceptable,” says U.S. Transportation Secretary LaHood. “We expect aircraft operators to comply with our safety rules and will take enforcement action when they do not.” “I don’t have any comment,” Mr. Dause tells CVBT. The company has been in business since 1964 and “is one of the largest and oldest in the United States,” its website says. The FAA alleges that The Parachute Center operated a DeHavilland DHC-6 Twin Otter when critical parts were well past their life limits and without inspecting portions of the wings for corrosion. The government alleges that The Parachute Center operated the aircraft on approximately 2,121 flights between March 21, 2008 and Nov. 4, 2009 with elevator control cables that were overdue for replacement and when the plane was not in compliance with airworthiness directives requiring visual inspections of the wing main spar, lower spar cap extensions and wing support strut for possible corrosion. The FAA also alleges that the company operated the aircraft on at least 500 flights between April 16, 2009 and Nov. 4, 2009 with aileron control cables that were overdue for replacement. “Passengers and crew have to be able to trust that an operator has done the right thing and has complied with all the rules,” says FAA Administrator Randy Babbitt. “Safety and compliance are the right choices, every time.” The Parachute Center has 30 days from receipt of the FAA’s enforcement letter to respond to the agency. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #2 October 22, 2010 There is a pretty good thread on this is too if anyone wants get get caught up here: (locked now) http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3972072;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jbag 0 #3 October 22, 2010 Quote Per Moderator Billvon- If anyone wants to post personal attacks on Dause (or wants to defend his virtue) please do so in SC or Bonfire. So...... where were we? were at a repost IHYD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #4 October 22, 2010 I bet you skymama will be by shortly to lock or delete this thread. By the way, most of the posters on here have read the other thread and your views of the dzo so with that said, enough already. Take your rant to SC TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #5 October 22, 2010 I'll bet you are wrong... I actually think that this is the best forum for some of the things talked about in the other thread since there is more freedom to move the conversation as needed here. For those of us that are at a DZ jumping these are things that need to be talked about and addressed... Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #6 October 22, 2010 I wonder if this will slow Dause down enough that Jim Wallace will pass him in jump numbers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #7 October 22, 2010 Wallace is close but Dause is second in the world still behind Don Kerlner. If I remember Craig from Airspeed is at 25000+ jumps now too so he's close also.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d_squared431 0 #8 October 22, 2010 Quote I'll bet you are wrong... I actually think that this is the best forum for some of the things talked about in the other thread since there is more freedom to move the conversation as needed here. For those of us that are at a DZ jumping these are things that need to be talked about and addressed... I agree there are several issues that need to be addressed. I just think this type of thread would have better responses in SC than the Bonfire.TPM Sister#130ONTIG#1 I love vodka.I love vodka cause it rhymes with Tuaca~LisaH You having a clean thought is like billyvance having a clean post.iluvtofly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #9 October 22, 2010 QuoteWallace is close but Dause is second in the world still behind Don Kerlner. If I remember Craig from Airspeed is at 25000+ jumps now too so he's close also. how is more than 10,000 jumps close, Don is all hop'n'pop. so Dause still is unsdisputed freefall time champion. He has also flown a shitload of hours. one day someone will pass him. Creatures like Tj with 15k or so an still only a young fellow... A shit load of hop 'n' pops may chew through the log books but skydiving experience is about freefall and formations, hop'n'pops don't give you much experience in those."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mutumbo 0 #10 October 22, 2010 my main issue is that as a skydiver jumping at a DZ im really paying for a safe ride to altitude in my eyes, after that, then its all on me. if i didnt want a safe ride and exit id just find a huge open cornfield and some random pilot and jump out of whatever plane he had. I dont know if that is the best way to really convey my point, but i think you get what im saying.Thanatos340(on landing rounds)-- Landing procedure: Hand all the way up, Feet and Knees Together and PLF soon as you get bitch slapped by a planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #11 October 22, 2010 I think it is a reasonable assumption that anyone boarding a certified aircraft for flight expects that the aircraft has been maintained to at least a minimum standard prescribed by the FAA or national authority. If the operator of that a/c opts not to conform with the regulations he must demonstrate an alternate means of compliance which must be accepted by the governing body before operations can commence. To operate outside these "rules", especially flying for hire, is particularly egregious in the eyes of any governing or regulatory agency. Aging aircraft are under a microscope. It was never envisioned that these a/c would last for 50, 60 or even 70 years for the DC-3. They were not engineered to do so. Structural, component, system and hardware inspections are being developed based upon historical failures in that type of a/c as well as other experiences. Manufacturers have long known that there would be service life limits to some of the parts or assemblies based on static and dynamic destructive testing during certification... If a manufacturer tested the wing attach structure to an equivalent of 20,000 landings in a laboratory and experienced a structural failure it would be imprudent to continue operations beyond that point in the real world so a "time/life limit" is established. This can either be a number of landings, engine starts, pressurization cycles or flight hours depending on the item... In some cases real world experience from post-accident investigation or periodic inspections reveal that a component has a likelihood of failure at a predictable interval. This component would then be added to a list of time life limited parts. For example; a flight control cable is known to rub in an inaccessible area so is changed at a prescribed interval to prevent premature failure. The list of time/life limited items is growing for aging aircraft as the years go by. Operators are expected to stay abreast of the evolutions and mandated changes. Even if the operator's experience does not include the predicted failure or maintenance items the time/life limits are law. Passengers have an expectation that the aircraft they board are being maintained properly. When the FAA suspects or discovers this is not the case they can and will take action not only for the safety of the flying public but for those on the ground being flown over. Does this help anyone who cares to understand? jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #12 October 22, 2010 QuoteQuoteWallace is close but Dause is second in the world still behind Don Kerlner. If I remember Craig from Airspeed is at 25000+ jumps now too so he's close also. how is more than 10,000 jumps close, Don is all hop'n'pop. so Dause still is unsdisputed freefall time champion. He has also flown a shitload of hours. one day someone will pass him. Creatures like Tj with 15k or so an still only a young fellow... A shit load of hop 'n' pops may chew through the log books but skydiving experience is about freefall and formations, hop'n'pops don't give you much experience in those. Wallace no doubt holds the record for bringing new people into the sport... Dause has done mostly solo's, (I heard, only rumors, so don't call that fact) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #13 October 23, 2010 Quote Wallace no doubt holds the record for bringing new people into the sport... Dause has done mostly solo's, (I heard, only rumors, so don't call that fact) Huh? The majority of the jumps I have made at Lodi were organized by Bill. I haven't jumped there in a while but I don't think most of Bill's jumps are solos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LongWayToFall 0 #14 October 23, 2010 I also heard that back in the day he did lots of solos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #15 October 23, 2010 Let's say that because those parts weren't replaced, there's an accident and 20 lives are lost in a crash. Keep your aircraft properly maintained. If I found out a DZ did not keep up with the maintenance of their jump planes, I would not be jumping there. I expect to be brought to altitude safely, not be in potential danger because someone wanted to be cheap/sneaky about their aircraft mx. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skipbelt 0 #16 October 23, 2010 QuoteLet's say that because those parts weren't replaced, there's an accident and 20 lives are lost in a crash. Keep your aircraft properly maintained. If I found out a DZ did not keep up with the maintenance of their jump planes, I would not be jumping there. I expect to be brought to altitude safely, not be in potential danger because someone wanted to be cheap/sneaky about their aircraft mx.you should always be ready to not make it to altitude safely ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #17 October 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteLet's say that because those parts weren't replaced, there's an accident and 20 lives are lost in a crash. Keep your aircraft properly maintained. If I found out a DZ did not keep up with the maintenance of their jump planes, I would not be jumping there. I expect to be brought to altitude safely, not be in potential danger because someone wanted to be cheap/sneaky about their aircraft mx. you should always be ready to not make it to altitude safely ! All the jumper-readiness in the world won't teach us how to safely bail out an aircraft full of people below the tree line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #18 October 23, 2010 Yup...hittin' something hard while going real fast while strapped in an aluminum tube never ends up pretty. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #19 October 23, 2010 QuoteYup...hittin' something hard while going real fast while strapped in an aluminum tube never ends up pretty. OR pinned to the ceiling of said aircraft.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #20 October 23, 2010 QuoteYup...hittin' something hard while going real fast while strapped in an aluminum tube never ends up pretty. I think people forget how fast they're going, and how thin the aluminum is around them. The ride is generally so smooth, and so friendly, it's seems hard to understand how something so easy going can kill you. Maybe all jumpers should be required to ride along during some stall/spin training, just to get a an idea of how fast things can go wrong. One second you're mushing along on the edge of a stall, and a second later you're pinned to the wall as the plane is spinning toward the ground. It's a good illustration of how bad it can get, and a spin is not even that bad. A couple of heavy-handed zero G's might help to. Get pinned to the ceiling, then smashed down to the floor on top of, or under, other jumpers and you get an idea for how un-friendly an airplane can be. Keep in mind that afterwards while the jumpers are tending to their various injuries, the zero G manuvers were well within the limits of the plane, and it barely broke a sweat kicking everyones ass. An actual emergency involving a departure from controlled flight can be expected to be much worse. An emergency involving any sort of landing where the plane doesn't stay up on the gear can be expected to worse yet. As evidenced the in the other Lodi thread, the seat belts in jump planes leave a bit to be desired, so the best protection against an aircraft crash is to not be in one. In this country, the best protection against that is to fly on a plane that is at least kept the FAA minimum standards for maintenance. Some operators go above and beyond that standard, and I applaud them, but it's really in their best interest becasue it avoids down time and airframe destroying accidents. In the end, you have to have a standard, and smart people at the FAA have studied the available data and provided a standard they believe in to the point that they're willing (and able) to fine Bill D $664,000 for not following it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #21 October 23, 2010 OK...I am totally pissed that what happened happened , and why it happened, ..BUT...anyone here that has been jumping for more than 10 years "not" been to a DZ, they knew was "Iffy" yet still jumped? Seems like a bit of a witch hunt here to hang a man, that has been part of the sport for a long time, (I have never "met" him., he was 3 feet away , lol , but we didn;t meet) or jumped at his DZ... Would I have jumped knowing his habits?? "probably" Guess what? That makes me as guilty as him......IMO Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
93zx11 0 #22 October 23, 2010 QuoteYup...hittin' something hard while going real fast while strapped in an aluminum tube never ends up pretty. Thank god I only basejump now. Cliffs don't crash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyrider 0 #23 October 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteYup...hittin' something hard while going real fast while strapped in an aluminum tube never ends up pretty. Thank god I only basejump now. Cliffs don't crash. Must be why so few BASE jumpers walk with a limp! [/sarcasim] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conundrum 1 #24 October 23, 2010 QuoteQuoteLet's say that because those parts weren't replaced, there's an accident and 20 lives are lost in a crash. Keep your aircraft properly maintained. If I found out a DZ did not keep up with the maintenance of their jump planes, I would not be jumping there. I expect to be brought to altitude safely, not be in potential danger because someone wanted to be cheap/sneaky about their aircraft mx. you should always be ready to not make it to altitude safely ! Being "ready" in case of an emergency is different than having that emergency because of someone else's deliberate neglect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jf951 1 #25 October 23, 2010 why doesn't DZ.com just make a "hate on bill dause" section all to it self, you guys do a piss poor job of hiding it under the "incident" the OP posts anyways. also i think it should exclusively entail ppl bashing on lodi who have only heard about the place, never actually been there, i wanna keep our source legit.Jump more, Bitch less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
