SkyTango 0 #1 April 13, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2StZVDUck9M That’s gona hurt the insurance... JC If you woke up breathing, congratulations! You get another chance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #3 April 13, 2011 That had to be one helluva e-ticket ride in the cockpit of the Comair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #4 April 13, 2011 As usual, the comments are almost funnier than the video .... Jeeze there are some retarded people around (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #5 April 13, 2011 Quote As usual, the comments are almost funnier than the video .... Jeeze there are some retarded people around not THAT retarded : Quote Roger, Roger. Clarence forgot to get clearance while Victor was busy getting vectors. Over, under. wonder if there is already a remake with the bullied australian fatboy scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #6 April 13, 2011 Remarkably, no one was hurt ... just goes to show why you should leave your seat belts on till you are parked! More info here: http://nycaviation.com/2011/04/air-france-airbus-a380-clips-smaller-delta-jet-at-kennedy-airport-in-new-york/#video Also, ATC audio ... pretty calm all things considered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WjuCI2yAVD8"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weekender 0 #7 April 13, 2011 call me a cynic but people will soon be complaining of injuries. physical and emotional. give it some time.....wait for it. there is no way this will not become an opportunity to make some quick cash."The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird." John Frusciante Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #8 April 13, 2011 The ATC guy in me immediately wonders who's to blame. I've never been a tower or ramp guy, so I'm not sure where certain responsibilities lie, what the sequence of events were, and what other factors there may have been. It should make an interesting report. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #9 April 13, 2011 QuoteThe ATC guy in me immediately wonders who's to blame. If you listen to the audio, the A380 was instructed to give way to opposite traffic, which I can only assume is the CRJ. If you look at the video, and pictures of the damage, you can see that it was just the wingtip of the A380 that hit the rear half of the vertical tail on the CRJ. It's hard to tell the scale of everything, but it's really just a matter of 5 or 10 feet that would have made this a near miss. I have to think that the size of the A380 played a role in all of this. Not in the 'duh' way, where a shorter wing wouldn't have hit the CRJ, but in the sense that the taxiways weren't made with an airplane that size in mind. A 747 comes in at 40ft less wingspan, and that's always been the 'standard' of big ariplanes. Seeing as this accident was caused by far less than 20 ft of clearance, even a 747 would have slid by without incident. While I think the pilot is surely to blame, I do think that a reworking of ramp procedures with regards to the A380 is surely in order. They have to look at every combination of taxiway, intersection, hold-short lines and other aircraft needs to be taken in to account. If anyone had done the math, it would have been clear that an A380 on the centerline and a CRJ at that hold-short line would have been very close, too close for comfort, and probably would have put procedures in place to make sure that combination or factors never occured. Maybe the A380 needs to be treated more like Airforce One, or a fire truck. Everything need to stand down and back off when they are coming through. Of course, the airline would need to cover the costs in time and reduced capacity the airport would suffer, but if you want to run the big dog, you need the big wallet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #10 April 13, 2011 Quote It's hard to tell the scale of everything, but it's really just a matter of 5 or 10 feet that would have made this a near miss. I disagree They did nearly miss. By 5-10'."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #11 April 13, 2011 QuoteThe ATC guy in me immediately wonders who's to blame. I've never been a tower or ramp guy, so I'm not sure where certain responsibilities lie, what the sequence of events were, and what other factors there may have been. It should make an interesting report. I'd guess the plaintiff's attorneys will sue everyone from the tire manufacturers to the flight attendants.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #12 April 13, 2011 I saw some comments on the FlyerTalk forum that indicated that the size of the taxiway space at JFK is pretty tight - such that people weren't all that surprised to see this happen with the wingspan of an A380. There was a link to this, which gives a nice visual comparison of the humongo planes (scroll down for wingspan comparisons)."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #13 April 13, 2011 Cool link. You know, I had thought the new B747-8 was the longest A/C ever flown, but I see the AN-225, a one off aircraft, is still the champ. Of course, the -8 will be the longest production A/C yet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #14 April 13, 2011 >I saw some comments on the FlyerTalk forum that indicated that the size of the taxiway space at JFK is pretty tight . . . JFK is not large enough to operate A380's by the numbers - but they got a waiver from the FAA. Expect this to be a bigger and bigger problem as time goes by. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #15 April 13, 2011 Ah crap! Now they are going to try and land at Newark! Woo hoo...kill me now!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #16 April 13, 2011 Quote>I saw some comments on the FlyerTalk forum that indicated that the size of the taxiway space at JFK is pretty tight . . . JFK is not large enough to operate A380's by the numbers - but they got a waiver from the FAA. Expect this to be a bigger and bigger problem as time goes by. Maybe a future condition of the waiver will be a wing walker to help escort those big planes to the gates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 144 #17 April 13, 2011 QuoteRemarkably, no one was hurt ... just goes to show why you should leave your seat belts on till you are parked! More info here: http://nycaviation.com/2011/04/air-france-airbus-a380-clips-smaller-delta-jet-at-kennedy-airport-in-new-york/#video Also, ATC audio ... pretty calm all things considered. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WjuCI2yAVD8 Yes seatbelts was my immediate thought when I saw this. I tend to get complacent and will occasionally unclip my seatbelt close to the ramp - probably won't do that again.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrmrangers 0 #18 April 13, 2011 The local news here in NYC is saying that the comuter plane stopped early to avoid a truck that passed in front of it by mistake. by the the time it started moving to get out of the way it was to late. It is amazing though how that plane gets tossed like a childs toy!!!Wait , I pull what first? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #19 April 13, 2011 I have been talking to some tower guys at ATL and HOU and the answer I basically got from them was "If the pilot no speak good Engrish then never tell them to hold for traffic since they won't" We then went into a conversation about which airlines "No speak good Engrish" the best Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #20 April 14, 2011 QuoteIt is amazing though how that plane gets tossed like a childs toy!!! That toy weighs 45,000lbs empty, and upwards of 60,000lbs full without fuel. It is a testament to the build quality of the CRJ when the vertical stabilzer can take that type of load and not snap off, or even really bend all that much. I just caught on thaty the A380 was taxiing out for take off. So they have a plane full of fuel and god knows how many people going trans-atlantic, then the pilot gets into this fender bender, and now what? How long does it take to get another A380 in to replace that one? How about a 747 and reroute the overage to other carriers? Anyway you slice it, a couple hundered people had their travel plans seriously fucked by what amounted to a parking lot fender bender. Wonder how much it's going to cost Air France? Aircraft repair and down time, rerouting all those customers and whatever esle it takes to make them happy, the bill from JFK for all their emergency services. That's going to hurt. I wonder if they'll can the pilot? I wonder if they can even afford to lose an A380 driver, how many of them do you think they even have? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #21 April 14, 2011 Quote Expect this to be a bigger and bigger problem as time goes by. I'm surprised it took this long. That area over by T-1 and T-1 is a mess and very tight to move around. No wiggle room at all.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #22 April 14, 2011 QuoteAh crap! Now they are going to try and land at Newark! Woo hoo...kill me now! I don't think you will ever see it at EWR. Taxiway, and runway Mod's would have to be done first. Just not room for it. I don't know how you could get that thing into terminal B without takin up 2 gates at a time.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #23 April 14, 2011 QuoteThe ATC guy in me immediately wonders who's to blame. I've never been a tower or ramp guy, so I'm not sure where certain responsibilities lie, what the sequence of events were, and what other factor I've read a lot of incident reports and notice that taxiiing incidents with big planes keep happening. Over the years at busy but tight places like Heathrow, every couple years some aircraft dings another. The pilot is still responsible for safely taxiing the aircraft, where ever ground control clears the pilot to taxi. But the incident reports often show how the pilots were set up to fail, and end up basically blaming the airport, suggesting changes to the way planes are moved or held at different specific areas of the airport, or where taxi and hold markings are painted. Sometimes the pilots could have been more cautious, as CVR records keep showing things like, "You think we'll clear him?" "Probably." "Yeah we should be clear." "Guess so." "Looks like he's on the centerline, we should be good, I think." Still an expensive mistake when one is trying to guess whether the total distance between airplane fuselages is 190' or 200', when that makes all the difference. Pilots just can't determine the exact location of a wingtip so far off to the side and also so far behind them, whether it will clip another plane. Pure parallel taxi markings may be designed far enough apart, but in other cases it is harder to tell -- there are diverging paths, or hold areas where stopping short of a line doesn't guarantee the nose is exactly at the line, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
