gear checks

[pilotpilot57 0]

Ok here goes.....Made my first solo jump this past weekend, on halloween, and it was jump number 13 !! thought about that on the way up. Best jump ever yahoo!. Instuctors tell me all the way through aff training about gear checks ,learned to do one then get two more. Instuctor clears me for solo say don't forget to get a gear check. I'm waiting for the plane, I asked a guy to give me a check.He paused then checked things out and said he would jump it. I couldnt help feel like I was imposing on the guy, and funny thing, no one else on the lift does any kind of gear check, either before or in the plane. Is this normal? does everyone forget safety after training or is the gear check thing just there to boost confidence in new people? I kind of like the idea of getting at least one second opinion

[Bertt 0]

Are you sure they don't do any kind of gear check, or just not one that you saw? It's true, some people don't do gear checks, but most do it for themselves and others and will be happy to do one for you. Don't hesitate to ask.
You also might be surprised how many people on the plane are looking at each other's gear and just don't say anything unless they see something wrong.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

1. There are different levels/kinds of gear checks:
-Full student check (pretty obvious when done.)
-Pin check (might be just main pin & handle, might be main pin/handle and reserve pin) That can be quickly done depending on space available and seating arrangement.
-Self check of threes (you might not even notice that being done.) Three buckles, three ring & RSL, three handles.

2. I find that pin checks are contagious. When someone asks for one they often inspire others to do the same.

3. I have a friend who broke his neck due to a premature main deployment while in a sit, and another whose reserve fired in the plane (door closed, all good) ... that makes me real sensitive to pin checks.

4. Never be afraid to ask for a pin check!


Odd pin check story: I once had a pilot tell me to kneel next to him so that he could give me a pin check (I was the only jumper on that load).

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[chuckakers 370]

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Ok here goes.....Made my first solo jump this past weekend, on halloween, and it was jump number 13 !! thought about that on the way up. Best jump ever yahoo!. Instuctors tell me all the way through aff training about gear checks ,learned to do one then get two more. Instuctor clears me for solo say don't forget to get a gear check. I'm waiting for the plane, I asked a guy to give me a check.He paused then checked things out and said he would jump it. I couldnt help feel like I was imposing on the guy, and funny thing, no one else on the lift does any kind of gear check, either before or in the plane. Is this normal? does everyone forget safety after training or is the gear check thing just there to boost confidence in new people? I kind of like the idea of getting at least one second opinion

Welcome to skydiving in the modern era. We teach the talk, but don't skydive the walk. It wasn't so long ago that most "in" jumpers on the load wouldn't leave the plane without a second set of eyes giving their gear a once-over.

Gear checks can only save lives if you get one.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[skyflower_bloom 0]

Congrats on your first solo!! That is awesome- good feeling, eh?
I made my first solo (post-A) yesterday (no solos on A progression only coach) and was on a small sunset cessna load with two other A jumpers, who were doing a 2-way RW (hubby and wife). I did ask for, and get, a pin check pre-exit, and reciprocated (Offered the man, but he said he got one pre-boarding from his wife and was more comfortable with that.)

So yeah- recently I did discuss this with an instructor and was warned that you should always remember to ask if you want one since no one is likely to just offer or do it, and to always ask before touching someone else's equipment as well, and especially to be careful who you choose get one from, i.e. don't just get a gear check from any random person-- so that might be why a lot of people feel safer doing own checks sometimes..

But yeah, in reply to your sentiment, and as implied by a PP, I think that a lot of experienced jumpers have the ability to be constantly checking their and others' gear visually and multi-task more than you or I; i.e. it is less obvious, and I have heard that many do reach around and do their own pin check by feel (any rigger or other input on if this is indeed done regularly, and if it is as accurate or safe?) So I think that might be some of the perception that it's not done- maybe that it is done, just that it's done different or more discretely.

I do see less repetition though w/ experience- I think the multiple and complete pre-gear up checks as well as pre-board and exit checks are less common (i.e. before putting the rig on, I rarely see the level of checking I still do as just getting an A, or like an AFFI gives an AFF student.. but again it could just be that these things are perceived more quickly and more easily without having to spend as much time or mental energy? Not sure..

Once someone came onto the load and was going to change jumpsuits and then put his rig on again over the second one. Everyone told him not to, and had the pilot stash his other suit up front for him for the duration- people do seem to look out for each other like that, and you will get called out if you arrive at the plane planning to gear up in any way after boarding.. not a good idea! Gotta have it ready for at least one thorough check-- but I think multiple checks and at least one other set of eyes are the ideal! And I do think that many eyes are checking, it;'s just not openly discussed unless an issue is noted (of course though you shouldn't rely ever just on that without communicating and/or looking for yourself, obviously)

There is no excuse for complacency about a thorough gear check- I hope I don't get lax about these sorts of things, ever! And I hope I am right in my perception that they are happening, just not in the same obvious fashion. Congrats again and blue ones, and keep it up with the gear checks and awareness! :) R

[popsjumper 2]

There's a couple of things going on here.

1. As indicated by ChuckAkers post: You're learning about complacency.

2. I would add to GLIDEANGLE's post: A main pin check should also include bridle routing.

3. And I would second skyflower_bloom's post where she says:
- "...don't just get a gear check from any random person-- so that might be why a lot of people feel safer doing own checks sometimes." and,
- "...many do reach around and do their own pin check by feel "

Bottom line:
A pin check is a good thing and one should always have one regardless of he methodology used. On the ground is the best time to do all of it and before exit is a grand time to have an additional main pin check and some would also prefer a reserve pin check at that time (before the door is opened, of course).

Two things that irritate me are:
- unasked-for handling of my equipment
- slapping the reserve flap after a pin check of any sort.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Gators1240 9]

I always do gear checks and am somewhat paranoid when doing so. I do a full rig check prior to putting on my gear, and once on and in the plane I am constantly checking my handles and straps on the ride up. Its just too easy for something to get snagged on something a little bit without noticing it. I Will generally get a second pin check from someone on the load but sometimes I dont. I always make sure to get one if I have tandems sitting behind me. Theres just something about someone with no experience or knowledge of the gear sitting that close to my rig that makes me a little paranoid

[miconar 0]

I do a complete gear check:
Every morning when getting my gear out.
Every time I take it off the gear rack to put on.
Immdiatly after putting it on.
On the way to board.
Just before taking off the seatbelt and becoming my own problem once again, and no longer the pilot's.
Some time during the ride to altitude, at least twice along with emergency EPs practice
Just before jumping.
I sometimes find myself touching my three harness straps to feel the metal bit and even cutaway and reserve handles during free fall, mostly when filming tandems and having my hands free for a few seconds on the air, it just happens by itself I swear :-)

The only things I cant check with the rig on are the AAD and PC cocked, so I make a point of slowing down and getting a mental picture of them being checked before putting the rig on so I easily and vividly recall doing it later. If i cant remmber doing it, ill have someone whom I would trust with my life look at them. I hate people touching my gear, most noticably the tandem clients sitting behind me grabbing my riser covers everytime the plane hits a burble. Iv had one of them (a kid) flip open my reserve pin protection to ask his instructor whats in there. Had a friend look me over and close it, stayed away from client, thank god he wasnt my video client.

I am always obssesivly looking at other people's gear and checking it visually. To date I have cought misrouted chest and leg straps, misrouted RSLs, floating handles, open riser covers, AADs that are off, and once a completly misrouted three rings on a tandem harness at 8k on the way up. Scary. But no one has x ray vision - check your pins or have them checked by some one competent. And no one is obligated to look you over. Dont rely on it, be vigilant. Always look out for mistakes - your's and other's.

Know how to check yourself completly, with the rig on and off you. Be self relient, but dont be afraid to ask for help, and particularly for knowledge. Look out for yourself and your friends. Be safe.

And that one guy that lets you feel like its a hussle to help you keep yourself and everyone else on board alive, himself included, is a douch. I shuld know, im one myself, but id gladly give anyone a gear check :-) Im more of a safty douch then coolness douch :-)

[fcajump 153]

FWIW -

I was visiting a DZ and a young jumper asked me for a pin check (rental gear)... with all the look of "I was told to get a check, but don't want to bug you".

Well, in 2 minutes we had a second opinion from the DZ's master rigger, and in 5 we were on our way with the jumper in a different rig... While it might have been OK, I spotted a well worn closing loop, and neither I nor the DZ's M.R. like working with "might-be's"

It took a little reassurance from both of us to the student to convince them that this was neither his fault nor was he being an inconvenience. This was about keeping everyone on the load safe.

I never turn someone down that asks. If for no other reason than how I would feel it there was an issue that I could have caught, but was "too busy" to help you out.

JW

PS - to all: when was the last time you offered a gear check to your pilot?? Many non-jumping pilots know less about their gear than our students... and I have caught a "likely-would-have-been-fatal" error (mis-routed chest strap) on a DZ pilot about to fly. He said no one had ever told him he was doing it wrong.
Remember, they're part of our team too!!

PPS - Riggers/DZO's (& other interested parties) - come see me at PIA Symp 2011 talking about "Preparing Pilots for Bailout"

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[petejones45 0]

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Ok here goes.....Made my first solo jump this past weekend, on halloween, and it was jump number 13 !! thought about that on the way up. Best jump ever yahoo!. Instuctors tell me all the way through aff training about gear checks ,learned to do one then get two more. Instuctor clears me for solo say don't forget to get a gear check. I'm waiting for the plane, I asked a guy to give me a check.He paused then checked things out and said he would jump it. I couldnt help feel like I was imposing on the guy, and funny thing, no one else on the lift does any kind of gear check, either before or in the plane. Is this normal? does everyone forget safety after training or is the gear check thing just there to boost confidence in new people? I kind of like the idea of getting at least one second opinion

it goes through phases, a long time ago the fasion was to get on the plane without your straps done up and your gear loosely hanging on your shoulders. then after an incident where a whole plane was filled up with jumpers geared up like that and the plane had problems and no one was ready to jump! ; people began becoming more anal about gear checks, but that has slowly faded away now

Look out for the freefly team, Smelly Peppers. Once we get a couple years more experience we will be a force to be reckoned with in the near future! BLUES!

[fcajump 153]

I saw one of the tightest penny-pinching DZO's ever, shutdown a plane and ream out the pilot and staff for 1/2 hour when he caught an instructor rushing for a plane and board without leg straps done up.

REALLY made an impression on me that if HE thought it was that important that he would shutdown to discuss it, it MUST be a big deal.

JW

Cheers Harry!! (ya ol' fart )

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[rehmwa 2]

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Two things that irritate me are:
- unasked-for handling of my equipment
- slapping the reserve flap after a pin check of any sort.

me too

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[LongWayToFall 0]

It just depends. I have seen a number of different bridle configurations, main and reserve flap configurations, etc. Lots of times people don't trust just some random person with touching their gear. If someone asks though, I'm down to check em.

I caught a misrouted chest strap the other day, just a minute or 2 before exit. Scary.

[SRI85 0]

packing for yourself starts to become your gear check. but I still ask for a check every now and then,

[pms07 3]

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1. There are different levels/kinds of gear checks:
-Self check of threes (you might not even notice that being done.) Three buckles, three ring & RSL, three handles.

For many the "self check" is much more extensive and might, more appropriately, be called a "pre-flight inspection". You start the pre-flight before donning your gear by doing at least the following; check reserve pin, AAD is on, main pin/bridle routing, etc. Once you have the gear on, check routing, handles, all straps and connectors properly fastened, check to make sure you have your helmet, audible and visual altimeter, all are properly set and on, etc. Much like pre-flighting an airplane. For some, the check of 3s might also be done 3 times; after putting on your gear, before boarding, and prior to exit. There are lots of variations.

Recommend ALL always get a good gear check and do it the same way, every jump. If you prefer, do it as you learned as a student; it's good procedure. Gear checks can be done without assistance however, should you choose (and with proper training).

[trig78 0]

In some countries they will have everyone line up for a check before boarding by whoever is in charge of that load, regardles of your experience.

[popsjumper 2]

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In some countries they will have everyone line up for a check before boarding by whoever is in charge of that load, regardles of your experience.

I like this idea.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mircan 0]

Quote

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In some countries they will have everyone line up for a check before boarding by whoever is in charge of that load, regardles of your experience.

I like this idea.

Providing that the ones that do gear check, know what the hell are they doing.

dudeist skydiver #42

[fcajump 153]

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Quote

1. There are different levels/kinds of gear checks:
-Self check of threes (you might not even notice that being done.) Three buckles, three ring & RSL, three handles.

For many the "self check" is much more extensive and might, more appropriately, be called a "pre-flight inspection". You start the pre-flight before donning your gear by doing at least the following; check reserve pin, AAD is on, main pin/bridle routing, etc. Once you have the gear on, check routing, handles, all straps and connectors properly fastened, check to make sure you have your helmet, audible and visual altimeter, all are properly set and on, etc. Much like pre-flighting an airplane. For some, the check of 3s might also be done 3 times; after putting on your gear, before boarding, and prior to exit. There are lots of variations.

Recommend ALL always get a good gear check and do it the same way, every jump. If you prefer, do it as you learned as a student; it's good procedure. Gear checks can be done without assistance however, should you choose (and with proper training).

When I started doing airshows, I found that this ritual of doing a thorough preflight of the rig (and accessories) can also have a very calming affect on nerves. While the nerves are considerably less after 18 years at the airshow, the ritual puts me in the right "show" frame of mind.

There are many things that might happen during a dive that you can't predict, others that you can only practice and reherse. Its very reassuring to KNOW that everything about your rig was (doubled)checked for the basic (stupid) problems.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[fcajump 153]

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Quote

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In some countries they will have everyone line up for a check before boarding by whoever is in charge of that load, regardles of your experience.

I like this idea.

Providing that the ones that do gear check, know what the hell are they doing.

I suspect that having this be common practice, the least experienced learns better and quicker than at DZ's where this is not done.

JW

Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

[Baksteen 84]

Only once did someone flat out refuse to give me a gear check. They argued that they hadn't ever done a gear check and didn't know what to check. My offer of practicing together was refused in a similar manner.

This jumper has over five hundred jumps and a C-licence.

Scary.

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[JackC1 0]

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Only once did someone flat out refuse to give me a gear check. They argued that they hadn't ever done a gear check and didn't know what to check. My offer of practicing together was refused in a similar manner.

This jumper has over five hundred jumps and a C-licence.

Scary.

You've got to wonder how is he qualified to put his own gear on.

[pilotpilot57 0]

Thanks everyone for the input. I know once I get through the packing class I'll have a better understanding of the complete system, and what to look for on my own. I have asked many questions and done research on my own, seen articles in uspa mag about different aspects of the rig to look at. Most of the time there is always at least one or more instuctor on a load here, I don't have any problem asking for a check, and will continue to do so. The load I was on for my 1st solo was a light load and not one instructor on. I still asked for a check. I used to fly many years ago and always did a complete pre-flight, even though I saw folks just jump in fire up , and off they go. I've been driving a gasoline tanker for the last 20 years and still do a complete pre-trip inspection before I head out for the day. thanks again everyone, I look forward to many safe and exciting skydives in the years to come.