How often have you felt threatened

[nigel99 149]

I'm reading a book "The gift of fear". I highly recommend it and it provides a fascinating incite into the world of violence.

In the book he mentions something that I had never considered before. He claims that women are frequently subjected to unwanted attention and most women in big cities have to be constantly aware. As he puts it most men are worried that a woman on a date will laugh at them, most woman are worried the man might kill them.

As a father and husband it has got me thinking.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[devildog 0]

shouldn't the male / female responses be the same?

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[Nataly 38]

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As he puts it most men are worried that a woman on a date will laugh at them, most woman are worried the man might kill them.

When I was at university, we had a very eye-opening role-play during a "safety awareness" thing... The moderators of the session pointed out that a single woman walking down the street would feel threatened/vulnerable if she got whistled/hollored at by a bunch of men in a car... The women all went "well d'uh, that's fucking obvious" and the men went "WHAT??? You should feel happy - it's a compliment!!" They REALLY didn't get the fear/danger a woman would feel... Both genders were surprised... The men were shocked we would feel so worried over what is meant to be a bit of flattery; the women were horrified men considered this behaviour as something that would make us feel good!!

"There is no problem so bad you can't make it worse."
- Chris Hadfield
« Sors le martinet et flagelle toi indigne contrôleuse de gestion. »
- my boss

[skymama 35]

I actually bought a $10 ring that I wear on my left ring finger because I was not comfortable with unwanted advances. It's actually helped!

Now, I feel threatened every day. My ex was verbally abusive, physically abusive once and I had to call 911 one night because he sent his parents to our house to threaten and harrass me while he stood by and watched. He bought a condo right outside the security gate where my parents live (an I work). It's also right by the shopping area I go to. Everywhere I go, I'm constantly scanning parking lots, aisles and restaurants to make sure they're not there. It's really stressful. I still have nightmares, one just last night.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[wmw999 2,148]

I rarely feel threatened, but that's just my nature. And it could be that it's so normal that I don't consider that heightened awareness when I'm walking out to a dark parking lot to be "feeling threatened."

Women are trained to be aware of their surroundings and possible threats all the time.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[eeneR 1]

I agree with what Wendy said. Having grown up IN the city of Chicago, spent a lot of my youth wandering around the city both in groups and alone to meet up with groups it is second nature to be aware.

However where I'm livng now I need to be more aware of bears and mountain lions....

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[davjohns 1]

I understand the female position intellectually and lament that it is this way. Personally, I try to make females feel at ease by keeping my physical distance, avoid being alone with them, etc. I still don't think it helps much. It is part of being a woman. Growing up, they are a target for those males who will use their size, strength or plain agressiveness to dominate.

I have trouble internalizing the problem. I am frequently told that I intimidate people with no intent to or even awareness of it. I've had guys tell me after tense situations that I threatened them without saying or doing anything. They were right. It's something in the body language.

Having this ability makes it difficult to fully empathize with the female position for me, but I am consciously aware of it. So, I intervene when I see a female in a difficult situation. I've walked into situations multiple times and announced myself as a boyfriend, husband, father, etc. to a woman that appeared in a bad situation and pulled her out. It's in her body language. I saw it and wanted to get her out of the situation. I am confident the other males saw it and wanted to exploit it.

When I stop to change a woman's tire on the road or deal with her situation otherwise, I usually tell her to stay in the car with the doors locked. I offer my cell phone so she can inform her family where she is and how long she expects to be. There's no need for her to watch me change a tire. It's all an awareness that women are either vulnerable, or at least feel that way.

I hate it, but I try to deal with things as they are rather than as I would like them.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[nigel99 149]

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shouldn't the male / female responses be the same?

I thought about it, but I don't know many men that are routinely threatened. I've only experienced it once in 40 years, the book that sparked the thought says 'most' women face unwanted or threatening behaviour frequently.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[nigel99 149]

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I actually bought a $10 ring that I wear on my left ring finger because I was not comfortable with unwanted advances. It's actually helped!

Now, I feel threatened every day. My ex was verbally abusive, physically abusive once and I had to call 911 one night because he sent his parents to our house to threaten and harrass me while he stood by and watched. He bought a condo right outside the security gate where my parents live (an I work). It's also right by the shopping area I go to. Everywhere I go, I'm constantly scanning parking lots, aisles and restaurants to make sure they're not there. It's really stressful. I still have nightmares, one just last night.

that really sucks, sorry to hear that. Trust your instincts and take care.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JohnRich 4]

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'most' women face unwanted or threatening behaviour frequently.

There's a problem with that wording. "Unwanted" behavior is not necessarily "threatening". The two should not be put into the same category, as this makes people believe that most women are frequently threatened. When in fact much of this may simply be innocent behavior that is simply unwanted. For example, a married woman sitting with female friends in a bar may have someone offer to buy them a drink - that may be unwanted, but it's certainly not a threat.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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I am frequently told that I intimidate people with no intent to or even awareness of it. I've had guys tell me after tense situations that I threatened them without saying or doing anything. They were right. It's something in the body language.

Could it be the huge chest and biceps? Even though we're "civilized" grownups, during confrontation our nature makes us consider "Okay, could I take this guy in a fight?" That's evolutionary survival talking.

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When I stop to change a woman's tire on the road or deal with her situation otherwise, I usually tell her to stay in the car with the doors locked.

I've done the tire changing thing for little old ladies. But with my arms I usually have to have them loosen the lug nuts a little. . .

Seriously, if women were twice our size, twice our strength and sexually aggressive, men would develop a highly tuned sense of danger and learn to avoid threatening situations.

I never really considered it until one night, when I was working late and talking to Vskydiver on the phone. She said the kids were asleep and it was a beautiful night and she wished she could go take a walk. I told her she should. She told me there was no way she was going out after dark by herself, even in our quiet little neighborhood. I, like many other guys, had never really thought about it.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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'most' women face unwanted or threatening behaviour frequently.

There's a problem with that wording. "Unwanted" behavior is not necessarily "threatening". The two should not be put into the same category, as this makes people believe that most women are frequently threatened. When in fact much of this may simply be innocent behavior that is simply unwanted. For example, a married woman sitting with female friends in a bar may have someone offer to buy them a drink - that may be unwanted, but it's certainly not a threat.

You're right, John, they are different. I think women worry that "unwanted" could escalate to "threatening", esp. in an environment with no safeguards. Crowded bar, probably okay. Dark, lonely street, definitely could get out of hand. That's why meeting a woman takes a light touch.

[eeneR 1]

Dave, you touch on something here that is very important that a lot of women are not taught. Most of what gets people in trouble is how they carry themselves. This goes for both female and male.

If one walks around with a sense of confidence they will be seen less likely a target. This is something I learned early on as a kid. If you walk down the street looking scared this makes the wood be attacker more likely to go after you as they assume you wouldn't put up much of a fight. These people do not want you to fight back, they want to intimidate you, making them feel a sense of power. If they think you may actually put up a fight they do not want to risk damaging the already messed up ego.

Self confidence really does go a long way.

Even scarier though are the people that can charm their way into your life as if they are the most amazing person in the world only to turn into Mr Hyde. (or Ms Hyde in some cases). I had an ex years back that was like this, turned into a complete violent freak! Literally physically violent. Because of this I have very little tolerance for people being disrespectful to me as that is how that escalated.

It all comes down to self confidence and common sense in the above situation or when just walking down the street, Knowing when you need to be strong in the situation or when to get out of where you are!

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[nigel99 149]

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'most' women face unwanted or threatening behaviour frequently.

There's a problem with that wording. "Unwanted" behavior is not necessarily "threatening". The two should not be put into the same category, as this makes people believe that most women are frequently threatened. When in fact much of this may simply be innocent behavior that is simply unwanted. For example, a married woman sitting with female friends in a bar may have someone offer to buy them a drink - that may be unwanted, but it's certainly not a threat.

John its very hard to condense a book into a post from a smartphone. The unwanted attention is in the context of a guy that won't take no for an answer. If he asked if she wanted a drink and yet he still bought it despite being told no, it is absolutely threatening - even in a crowded bar.

I think you'd find it interesting based on some content and your speakers corner posts.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

Interesting. I was going through a box of my late father's stuff last week and found that book. It looked intersting enough to put it on my "to read" stack.

Yes, I've felt threatened. I walk my dog on a daily basis, and reasonably often (once a month or so) I encounter a loose, aggressive dog. I understand self defense (principles and legalities) and respond as necessary. That means occasionally using pepper spray, a hard kick, or actually grabbing and physically restraining the other dog.

Every so often, the owner of the loose dog takes offense that I am doing these things to their (loose and aggressive) dog.
That's when I call the cops. Fortunately the cops in my small town take a dim view of "dog at large" or "aggressive dog" situations.

And women have a very different view of threats (overall) than men.
There is a very nice circuit that I walk my dog on. It goes down a wooded road with no houses on it (although there are houses within shouting distance). When I was still with my wife, she decided that she didn't feel safe walking it alone, but she liked walking it when I was along. I told her that I felt we lived in a safe enough area that she would be ok, but if she didn't feel safe, then don't go there. 3 months later a woman was attacked and killed on that road, apparently at random, by a real sick dude.
I complimented her on her safety awareness.

It often isn't the reality of the situation, but the perception of it that generates the fears.
Is a guy who buys a woman a drink after she has declined it going to stalk and rape her?
Is the guy who didn't buy it automatically not going to?

In both cases the answer is no. But the guy who buys it anyway is a more obvious threat. He's more visibly persistent, and drawing the attention to himself.

And women aren't the only ones who go about their daily lives in "condition yellow".
Many guys (and a lot of women too) don't bother, because they don't feel the threats. Until it's too late.
Paying attention to your surroundings is just basic safety conciousness. And helps project the appearance of "non-victim" status.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[peregrinerose 0]

I think there are two parts to that.... threatened by strangers vs. threatened by someone you know. Walking down the street alone, even in N. Philly, where I lived alone for 4 years, I never felt threatented. It was a high crime, drug infested, racist area, and I was the only white face for several blocks, but I'm also quite confident and friendly, so never had a hard time from anyone. Even the drug dealers. And the cops that broke into the wrong apartment (mine) going to arrest him.

I have felt threatened in my own home, from people I know and love, however. Our son was very volitile and violent for about a year. There were 4 911 calls due to attacks and threats. Once we had to pepper spray him. I have also been very afraid of partners. One got help and has done beautifully since then, the other is an ex husband.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[pchapman 262]

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If one walks around with a sense of confidence they will be seen less likely a target.

I don't know either way. But years ago a female skydiving acquaintance mentioned that in her line of work as a prostitute, "Never show fear to a client!" That particular job situation is out of the ordinary, but I always thought there might be a useful lesson somewhere in there for the rest of us too.

[MikeJD 0]

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If one walks around with a sense of confidence they will be seen less likely a target. This is something I learned early on as a kid. If you walk down the street looking scared this makes the wood be attacker more likely to go after you as they assume you wouldn't put up much of a fight.

Absolutely. I'm far from being a physically imposing or scary-looking guy, but I've routinely walked at night in some fairly rough neighbourhoods and always used that tactic - and (so far!) it's stood me in good stead. There's definitely a balance to be found - confident as if you're not expecting trouble, but not cocky or confrontational. Pointedly looking away is a no-no, so if I was passing a gang or something I'd allow myself an indifferent glance in the same way as I would with a little old lady. Behaving that way provides a nice feedback loop, too - it gives you more confidence.

[Fullmoon 0]

That's interesting. I feel much more vulnerable walking down the street at night than when I walk in the woods by myself, even at night. I always felt that non-human animals are much more predictable than people. I also agree that how you carry yourself influences how others will treat you.

[eeneR 1]

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That's interesting. I feel much more vulnerable walking down the street at night than when I walk in the woods by myself, even at night. I always felt that non-human animals are much more predictable than people. I also agree that how you carry yourself influences how others will treat you.

Not that animals are not capable of manipulation, humans are far far better at it. The beauty of animals is it is safe to just error on the side of caution with them as well in a lot of cases they are predators. People on the other hand are even far more unpredictable to me.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[christelsabine 1]

Never ever. Not in Europe, not in Far East, not in the Northern American area - never.

And even South Africa was OK for me. It just needs some kind of sense to know where to walk, and when.

So: All was OK

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Never ever. Not in Europe, not in Far East, not in the Northern American area - never.

And even South Africa was OK for me. It just needs some kind of sense to know where to walk, and when.

Doesn't the fact that you acknowledge some places and times it's not safe to go out constitute feeling threatened?

[Muffie 0]

I answered very rare/never, but that's because I have learned how to avoid certain situations that could turn threatening and how, as other posters above mentioned, to avoid unwanted attention by being aloof and controlling my actions.

As a woman, I do feel I have to constantly be aware of the situation I'm in and the impression I'm creating. And I don't think men understand that feeling.

For example, I was traveling alone in Spain and some man approached me on a street corner and tried to talk to me. I ignored him and he proceeded to talk to me in ten different languages, following me for three or four blocks. He only stopped when I happened to walk towards a police officer. I didn't feel threatened, but it was very uncomfortable. Some men I've told that story don't see the issue and applaud the guy for his persistence.

What they don't understand is that there are so many men like that out there that it ruins it for all guys, because I am far less open and welcoming to all men as a result of the unwanted, frequently crass attention I received in my late teens/early 20's. To avoid those guys (who do not take much encouragement) means avoiding the nice guy sitting behind him, too.

As for the wilderness issue. I hike alone frequently. And the danger there is the one on one situation where there is no one else around and it's me and some random guy on the trail. So far, so good, but I always know in the back of my mind that it's a possibility. And I have mentally rehearsed how I'll react if someone attacks me. I don't think something like that crosses most men's minds.

[JohnRich 4]

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'most' women face unwanted or threatening behaviour frequently.

There's a problem with that wording. "Unwanted" behavior is not necessarily "threatening". The two should not be put into the same category, as this makes people believe that most women are frequently threatened. When in fact much of this may simply be innocent behavior that is simply unwanted. For example, a married woman sitting with female friends in a bar may have someone offer to buy them a drink - that may be unwanted, but it's certainly not a threat.

...If he asked if she wanted a drink and yet he still bought it despite being told no, it is absolutely threatening - even in a crowded bar...

I would say that amakes him a jerk, but it's not threatening.

The definition of "threat":

"An expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage"

Buying a woman a drink, even if she has already said she doesn't want it, is not a threat. All she has to do is push it aside and ignore it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

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I would say that amakes him a jerk, but it's not threatening.

The definition of "threat":

"An expression of intention to inflict evil, injury, or damage"

Buying a woman a drink, even if she has already said she doesn't want it, is not a threat. All she has to do is push it aside and ignore it.

I guess that's one of the areas that men can be very blind to a woman's world.

It isn't a direct threat, but it is behavior that indicates that the guy isn't going to take "no" for an answer.
And ignoring that could be very dangerous for a woman. If he isn't going to take "no" for an answer about a drink, what else might he do despite her refusal?

It's like seeing a strange (or stray) dog while out walking. It isn't a direct and immediate threat, but it is something that has potential to be a serious threat.
And I treat it as such.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo