Tempo Reserve Observation!

[Courteney 0]

Hey there,

Just for interest.

I read on a previous thread about Tempo Reserve's with "built in" left turns and it got me thinking back to my last cut away. After a pretty decent sitfly and slowing down enough I dumped to have the shitest spiralling opening on my then 150 Siletto, it really freaked me out but couldn't quite work out what was wrong so when in doubt.... After my 150 Tempo opened I really started to wonder if I made the right decision cause it seemed that to fly it straight I had to hold down one toggle, landing was uneventful and I just wrote the left turn off to a loose leg strap.
So yesterday I decided to get peace of mind and test my reserve out. Hooked it to a static line rig and jumped it much the amusement and wonder of everyone at the dz. It opened quick enough and seemed to steer fine but after checking that my leg straps were equal I noticed that it was turning very slowly to the left. Not as hectic as when I last chopped but it definately was there.
Landing was interesting as I had just put my foot out to land and almost fell on my arse due to the canopy collapsing behind me. I'll still use it as it didn't bother me as much as it did the first time. But I do recommend for peace of mind to test jump your reserves before or after buying it to avoid any nasty surprises.

Cheers and take it easy.
Blue skies.

Courteney.

...drags me down like some sweet gravity!!!

[mr2mk1g 10]

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I do recommend for peace of mind to test jump your reserves before or after buying it to avoid any nasty surprises.

IIRC, no canopy that has ever been used as a main can be legally used as a reserve in the UK.

I suspect this may be mirrored in some other countries regulations so check before you do this.

[bmcd308 0]

Mine turns to the right. Maybe we should each trade half our reserve for the other's, so we get one that flies straight.

I am trying to think of the ad I will run when I sell it - "Tempo reserve. 1 ride. Opens great. Perfect for right-hand pattern dropzones."

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[diablopilot 2]

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IIRC, no canopy that has ever been used as a main can be legally used as a reserve in the UK.

I suspect this may be mirrored in some other countries regulations so check before you do this.

That is not the case in the USA. You may make test jumps on a reserve according to most manufacturers. In fact IIRC it's the manufacturer that determines how many and what the criteria for a cutoff point is.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[diablopilot 2]

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Landing was interesting as I had just put my foot out to land and almost fell on my arse due to the canopy collapsing behind me.

From my experience both under low porosity reserve type canopies, and watching people fly them, someone who is very used to a 9 cell ZP planform will often have this result on landing. Causes include trying to land the canopy in the same fashion, and not making sure the canopy is set up properly.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BlueEyedMonster 0]

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I decided to get peace of mind and test my reserve out. Hooked it to a static line rig and jumped it much the amusement and wonder of everyone at the dz... But I do recommend for peace of mind to test jump your reserves

I was on a plane once where someone did EXACTLY the same thing to test out the left turn in a tempo.

The rigger was experienced with static line, but not too current on it. The jumper was an experienced ex-military jumper with many static line jumps... but not to current with them.

So, I had a day of firsts. It was my first time:
...watching an attempted static line deployment
...watching a premature deployment
...watching a canopy go over a tail.. and a jumper hit it
...I ever did an emergency bailout

In the end the pilot managed to land with a bent tail, the jumper landed with a banged up arm, and with hindsight, we decided we did a pretty stupid thing.

With this experience behind me, I do not recommend this be done by everyone except jumpers and riggers that are experienced AND current with static line equipment. If you don't trust your reserve, buy a different one.

[Courteney 0]

Well, I would say I'm experienced in static line as that was my progression. I volunteer from time to time to jump static line on other peoples Jumpmaster's courses. I could see a problem with a premature deployment but there must have been a few factors that led to that specific outcome. Possibly a short line?
Anyway it worked out well. How can you trust something that gave you doubt at one stage, you have to try it out to ease your mind. I couldn't just write off the reserve for a strange flight if I wasn't sure if I had something to affect it.

...drags me down like some sweet gravity!!!

[Courteney 0]

Cool idea man!!!

...drags me down like some sweet gravity!!!

[CanEHdian 0]

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From my experience both under low porosity reserve type canopies, and watching people fly them, someone who is very used to a 9 cell ZP planform will often have this result on landing. Causes include trying to land the canopy in the same fashion, and not making sure the canopy is set up properly.

JP - I've heard that the PD reserves have a much better flare and that there are much fewer reports of hard landings. Any truth to this?

Cheers,
Al

Time's flying, and so am I...
(69-way, 108-way and 138/142-way Freefly World Records)

[sunshine 2]

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IIRC, no canopy that has ever been used as a main can be legally used as a reserve in the UK.

I suspect this may be mirrored in some other countries regulations so check before you do this.
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That is not the case in the USA. You may make test jumps on a reserve according to most manufacturers. In fact IIRC it's the manufacturer that determines how many and what the criteria for a cutoff point is.

I was under the impression that no canopy ever used as a main could be packed as a reserve. When did that change here in the US?

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[diablopilot 2]

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I was under the impression that no canopy ever used as a main could be packed as a reserve.

I did not say "used as a main" which is ambiguious definition in it's self.

As far as I know there is no FAR that specifies a certian number of jumps that will deem a reserve used as a "main" to no longer be airworthy (someone show me if I'm wrong). In fact it falls to the riggers who maintain the the equipment to decide the airworthy status of the gear. They inturn are bound (in the US) by the manufacturer's requirements.

Precision Aerodynamics manual states "One familiarization jump is allowable prior to packing for reserve use.

Performance designs Manual does not specify any number of jumps but a) requires the jumps be logges on the data pannel and when 40 have been reached the canopy myst be sent to the manufacturer for exaluation, and b) that if a bridle attachment point exists it may not be used or else the TSO is void.

I haven't looked up the requirements on a smart yet.

IMO a manufacturer would be foolish to say you couldn't test something you inteded to have on your back to save your life.

Of course taking a 300 jump Raven or PD and packing it into a reserve container would be somewhat foolish, but it's not as if they turn into pumpkins. We repack reserves after use, and BASE canopies are good for hundreds of jumps.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[darkwing 4]

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I was under the impression that no canopy ever used as a main could be packed as a reserve. When did that change here in the US?

I don't think it has ever been that way, so it hasn't changed.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[diablopilot 2]

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JP - I've heard that the PD reserves have a much better flare and that there are much fewer reports of hard landings. Any truth to this?

I don't agree. I've jumped 3 manufacturers reserves, and find them all landable. One of the nice things about the more modern reserves PD, R-Max, and Smart, is they seem to have been designed and "tuned" to fly more like the main canopies people are flying these days. At one time the design of main and reserves was virtualy the same, so after a malfunction people had no trouble. Since then Mains have become radicaly different machines and people have forgoten how to fly a 7 cell low porosity canopy. Now the reserves are catching up.

That said I do have PD reserves on my back at this point and am very happy with them and their performance.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[NickDG 23]

This has certainly happened to other manufacturers, so I'm not singling them out, but once years ago, we received a Tempo for installation in a customer's new rig. When I opened the box it looked like a hundred other new reserves I've seen and then I hung it up.

I'm just about to begin a continuity check and standing at the link end talking to the customer. The canopy is clean and white and all pretty looking and the customer is beaming. We walked up to the canopy and he touched it, caressed it really, and he's drinking in that sweet scent of new canopy. I picked up the steering lines.

The attachment between the line and the attachment tab is loose, but that's normal for a new canopy as they haven't taken a set yet. But there's something else going on here and I looked closer. It's then I notice there's no bar tack in the line or on the attachment tab. The finger trap in the line is all that's holding them in place. Opps!

The moral dilemma is do I mention this to the customer?

If it's the only problem with the canopy it's easily remedied. But, I'm in the rigger/instructor dilemma. As his rigger I should tell him. As his Instructor I don't want to saddle him with the unnecessary gear fear he might feel toward that canopy.

I won't say which I did.

All new gear needs to be inspected inside and out . . .

NickD BASE 194

[diablopilot 2]

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All new gear needs to be inspected inside and out . . .

Absolutly. I've seen my share of new gear right out of the box assembled or completed wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, and that is why there are multiple levels of checks. Kinda answers the question someone had in another forum andout "How much of a rigger do I need to be....."?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[jbrasher 0]

Hi Son,

Many years ago I had a bad day.
I was doing 30 ways and blew up my canopy. I asked around and a friend had a canopy he just got back from the shop; it was a 7 cell made out of a 5 cell.
I told you it was a while ago.
They'd added 2 cells to the center and my friend was looking for someone to maybe test it out. He had under a hundred jumps.
I made the jump and the center lines broke at the attachment points, I cut it away and landed a Handbury reserve.

No one else was going to lend me a canopy so i had a beer.

The 'new' cells had been added but the lines weren't bar tacked.

It happens.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[riggerrob 558]

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All new gear needs to be inspected inside and out . . .

Absolutely. I've seen my share of new gear right out of the box assembled or completed wrong. Everyone makes mistakes, and that is why there are multiple levels of checks. Kinda answers the question someone had in another forum and out "How much of a rigger do I need to be....."?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Agreed.
During my last 3,000 reserve pack jobs, I have found a couple of reserve canopies that were missing bartacks. The most embarrassing thing is that I was the last guy to repack the last one!
Oops!
Even more embarrassing is that three other riggers had packed it before me!
My inspection on new gear is a bit different than on used gear.
When inspecting new gear, I concentrate on symmetry and counting ALL the bartacks.

[gjhdiver 0]

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***JP - I've heard that the PD reserves have a much better flare and that there are much fewer reporThat said I do have PD reserves on my back at this point and am very happy with them and their performance.

I'd agree with this. I've done a fair bit of reserve product testing, and PD is what I choose to use.

I won't mention the name of a reserve that is not a million miles away from the subject of this thread, but it had the flying and landing charactistics of a lawn dart. The nicest thing I can think of to say about it was that it opened. YMMV, IMHO not valid in HI, AK etc etc.

[mbondvegas 0]

I know I'm digging up an old thread, but I just had my second ride on one of my Tempo's (a 250) and it had a strong left turn in it. I had to pull about 3/4 right brake to fly straight. This leaves little for the flare. Thank goodness it was a 250 so it still wasn't too bad of a landing.

Anyway, I wanted to say that I did not notice this turn on my first ride on this canopy (a subterminal ride), but it was really obvious on this jump (a terminal ride). Maybe these canopies have a design flaw that causes some sort of malformation after hard/fast openings...which ultimately cause this often noted built in turn???

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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[airdog07 0]

I had total bag lock on my vodoo, my tempo 120 opend nice and fast, did my canopy check and found no problem with it, land it fine no built in turn.
I seen jim slaton after is mal. he try to swoop his tempo through the pond which did not work too good, land it in the pond

"A peaceful heart leads to a healthy body; jealousy is like cancer in the bones ..."

[relyon 0]

I've had nine reserve rides on Tempos, all after good CRW jumps gone bad. One was on a 210 and the other 8 were on a 170, typically after 6-8 seconds of freefall following the cutaway. The highest was deployed at 8500 feet and the lowest at 1700.

In every case, my reserve opened swiftly, cleanly, flew on heading, and provided me stand up landings even in no wind conditions. Compared to a competition lined PD Lightning, I found a Tempo to be somewhat sluggish, have higher brake pressure, and a slower flare; exactly the kind of performance I wanted in my last parachute.

For all the negative opinions I've heard or read about Tempos, I've never had a problem. YMMV.

'skies,

Bob

[darkwing 4]

Have it inspected thoroughly, and perhaps put a jump on it as a main. As a rigger I would not repack a reserve that behaved like you describe until it got fixed. This behavior can be caused by internal failures (e.g., separation of a rib from top skin) that may not be obvious to the jumper. Of course there are other possibilities too. In any case, get it addressed.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[mbondvegas 0]

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Have it inspected thoroughly, and perhaps put a jump on it as a main. As a rigger I would not repack a reserve that behaved like you describe until it got fixed. This behavior can be caused by internal failures (e.g., separation of a rib from top skin) that may not be obvious to the jumper. Of course there are other possibilities too. In any case, get it addressed.

Oh, I'm retiring this reserve. Any good ideas of cool thinks to do with a otherwise "new" looking canopy? I'm thinking of stuffing it and sewing the cells shut to make an neat blanket. (It is a 250). I'm buying a new PDR218 for this rig.

To comment on other peoples response on Tempo's. I still have a Tempo 210 in my other rig and have no issue with that. This one (the 250) served me well, but I would be hesitant to use a Tempo if I ever move to a more highly loaded situation. The 250 still landed me reasonably soft despite my virtual inability to flare it. I did have to PLF. If I were more heavily loaded, that could have caused some real pain.

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I am not afraid of tomorrow, for I have seen yesterday and I love today.

[base935 0]

For what its worth, when I had a couple hundred skydives, I had a cutaway on my Stiletto 120, and when the Tempo 120 opened, it had a significant turn, can't remember what direction. In fact, I remember thinking that if I had a second reserve, I would have cut that first reserve away.

Sold it for $400, bought a PDR for $650- it was very well spent money for sure...

Gravity Research Institute

[hookitt 0]

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In fact, I remember thinking that if I had a second reserve, I would have cut that first reserve away.

Sold it for $400

Was the new owner informed of why you sold it?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto