RSL Question

[captain1976 0]

Had a low time jumper ask me about a statement in a Parachutist article regarding when it is appropriate to release the RSL.

I don't use one and personally am so far distanced from the training side of skydiving I couldn't answer the question.

Any help here? I went through a bunch of thread but couldn't find my answer.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[SRI85 0]

in AFF i was taught that if i were to land on top of a building, disconnect the RSL then cutaway.

[crotalus01 0]

I do not use one and am low time myself, but I was trained to release the RSL for a water landing, landing in gusty conditions where you may have to cut away the main to keep from getting drug, landing on an object such as a building, and to never use an RSL when performing CRW jumps.
Of course in all cases but CRW it was stressed "assuming you have time". It was also stressed to avoid those situations to begin with.
I am sure there are others.

As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD...

[SRI85 0]

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I do not use one and am low time myself, but I was trained to release the RSL for a water landing, landing in gusty conditions where you may have to cut away the main to keep from getting drug, landing on an object such as a building, and to never use an RSL when performing CRW jumps.
Of course in all cases but CRW it was stressed "assuming you have time". It was also stressed to avoid those situations to begin with.
I am sure there are others.

i disagree with disconnecting it for a water landing. You shouldnt be cutting anything away for a water landing. Chances are you dont know the waters depth, and what lies beneath it. Landing in the water and land should be no different, except loosening up your chest strap to prepare for a water landing.

also, i probably wouldnt be jumping if the wind was strong enough to pull me away after i landed, typically when i do get some pull after landing, i just get the canopy in front of me and face the direction of the wind.

[NovaTTT 1]

There are no easy answers, Captain, and is usually best left up to local practices and training.

One manufacturer recommends diconnecting the RSL on every jump after a good parachute is determined.

It is common to disconnect the RSL on CRW and camera jumps and in certain landing conditions: water, high wind, atop obstacles, but there are those for and against those practices.

I no longer use an RSL, but absolutely recommend disconnecting it before engaging in hit & rock or hit & chug competitions. Not so doing can lead to an expensive win (or loss!).

"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73

[LongWayToFall 0]

Disconnecting it gives you more options in a water landing. If you are being dragged under, cutting away may be much easier than getting out of your harness (which btw, acts like a flotation device because of the air in your reserve) and you don't want to pop the reserve pin while you are thrashing around with fabric....
Weather or not you cutaway above the water's surface is another issue. (And I agree with you, I was taught to wait until your feet touch the water)

[captain1976 0]

Thanks all, I get it now. I thought there was possibly an in-flight reason but just couldn't think of any. The other reasons are sound good.

You live more in the few minutes of skydiving than many people live in their lifetime

[billvon 2,400]

I strongly recommend NOT disconnecting the RSL (if you use one) until your feet are on the ground. The one time an RSL may save your life is if you cut away low (and that's true whether you have an RSL or a Skyhook/RSL.) Disabling it at that time is a bad idea IMO.

If you do land in high winds and have to cut away the main, the RSL will open your reserve. 99 times out of 100, the reserve will not inflate - so that's not really a big issue. During a water landing, you should _never_ cut away before your feet hit the water - and thus disconnecting the RSL doesn't buy you much there either.

[popsjumper 2]

As I understand RSL disconnect in water landings...

Disonncecting the RSL prior to water landing applies to swift currents such as might be encountered in a river.

Reasoning is that the main or lines may get snagged on a submerged hazard and the current could drag you under...so, breaking away the main after landing can avoid that.

Disconnecting the RSL avoids the happenstance of the reserve lines getting snagged, regardless of whether the reserve comes out of the freebag or not.

Personally, I would disconnect the RSL just prior to landing...below a point where it is no longer useful in a breakway situation.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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i disagree with disconnecting it for a water landing. You shouldnt be cutting anything away for a water landing.

I don't know what country you are in and your country's recommendations may be different. USPA recommendations say yes, disconnect the RSL and breakaway in water landings

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Chances are you dont know the waters depth, and what lies beneath it.

I'm curious as to how this ties in with RSL disconnect or breakaway recommendations. Are you saying to wait until you discover the depth and the underwater hazards before deciding to disconnect and breakaway?

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Landing in the water and land should be no different, except loosening up your chest strap to prepare for a water landing.

USPA doesn't say loosen...they say, disconnect.

Something to think about: On land,you can see the hazard you are about to hit and can plan accordingly. In water, particularly brackish water, you may not be able to see that stump or log you are about to hit. Do you think it might be a good idea to protect your face and thorax when landing in water...things we don't normally do on land? Kinda like hitting a tree, you see.

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also, i probably wouldnt be jumping if the wind was strong enough to pull me away after i landed, typically when i do get some pull after landing, i just get the canopy in front of me and face the direction of the wind.

Maybe you're not experienced enough yet to have run into a changed wind situation. It's sometimes hard to get up and chase a canopy that's dragging you along the ground.

Funny story:
At Z-hills...windy day...youngsters jumping...old farts in lawn chairs watching the action.

Somebody asked, "What are you guys doing?" Old fart answered, "Watching the youngsters gain experience."

Saw some funny stuff that day. One of them was a guy being drug along the ground on his back. He rolled over on his belly and right at the time he stopped, his reserve PC popped out *boing!* right over his head. I could tell he wasn't happy when he got up, took off his rig, threw it down and started kicking it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,400]

I agree that disconnecting the RSL after hitting the water is a good idea. It's primarily for reserve flotation; as long as your reserve is closed it will float you for a few minutes. The swift moving water thing may be an issue as well but I think it's a minor one. I've landed in fast water several times, and in all cases the canopy just laid on top of the water for 30 seconds or so while you and the canopy drift along (i.e. more than long enough to disconnect the RSL.)

The reason I recommend NOT disconnecting the RSL before landing is contained in this statement:

"I would disconnect the RSL just prior to landing...below a point where it is no longer useful in a breakway situation."

Historically, skydivers are very poor at judging what that altitude is. Several skydivers have decided to cut away "just above the water" to avoid entanglement - and discovered themselves back in freefall. In at least one case, it happened high enough (100-200 feet) to kill the skydiver. An RSL may have saved his life, so disconnecting the RSL at that point is, IMO, a mistake.

[dragon2 0]

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Thanks all, I get it now. I thought there was possibly an in-flight reason but just couldn't think of any. The other reasons are sound good.

Before chopping a 2out (downplane).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[yeyo 1]

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Thanks all, I get it now. I thought there was possibly an in-flight reason but just couldn't think of any. The other reasons are sound good.

Before chopping a 2out (downplane).

Before chopping ANY choppable 2out? (not only downplanes)

HISPA #93
DS #419.5

[dragon2 0]

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Thanks all, I get it now. I thought there was possibly an in-flight reason but just couldn't think of any. The other reasons are sound good.

Before chopping a 2out (downplane).

Before chopping ANY choppable 2out? (not only downplanes)

Yes, but most often you would only chop a downplane, is what i meant.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[skydiverek 55]

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Yes, but most often you would only chop a downplane, is what i meant.

Recently, USPA started advising to chop side-by-side (before, they had been advising to chop it OR to land it), after many side-by-sides changed into downplanes at very low altitudes...

[labrys 0]

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Recently, USPA started advising to chop side-by-side (before, they had been advising to chop it OR to land it), after many side-by-sides changed into downplanes at very low altitudes...

Where did you get that information? The 2011 SIM hasn't changed. They still recommend either option without favoring one over the other, except that they only recommend chopping if there's no interference or possibility of entanglement.

Owned by Remi #?

[SRI85 0]

Why would you disconnect an RSL prior to chopping in a 2 out situation? It's seems pointless.

[DSE 3]

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As I understand RSL disconnect in water landings...

Disonncecting the RSL prior to water landing applies to swift currents such as might be encountered in a river.

Reasoning is that the main or lines may get snagged on a submerged hazard and the current could drag you under...so, breaking away the main after landing can avoid that.

Disconnecting the RSL avoids the happenstance of the reserve lines getting snagged, regardless of whether the reserve comes out of the freebag or not.

Personally, I would disconnect the RSL just prior to landing...below a point where it is no longer useful in a breakway situation.

USPA verbatim water training here (video)

Although the USPA has a doctrine, and that's what we're required to teach, I agree with Bill's assessment. No need to disconnect.
~you've got other things to be doing/worrying about
~there is no harm in leaving it connected
~USPA hasn't updated water training since the days of rounds
~if the water is moving fast enough to pull the reserve you've still got plenty of time to deal with the RSL after hitting the water.

After lots of recent water entries, I've made some suggested changes to USPA that didn't make it into the 2011 SIM, but I do hope they reexamine the recommendations.

[SRI85 0]

Hey billion where were you jumping where you landed multie times in fast moving ? Just curious

[dragon2 0]

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Why would you disconnect an RSL prior to chopping in a 2 out situation? It's seems pointless.

Because there's a small chance the RSL might interfere with a clean cutaway in this case. So, if you have the time, disconnect it if you find yourself under a 2out.

AFAIK if you jump a Racer, in a 2out situation where you weant to cutaway, you *have* to disconnect it even. RTM for that one:

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Owners of the Racer Elite harness/container systems should also be made aware that in the event they have a reserve
canopy deployed before the main, and wish to release the main canopy, the RSL must be disconnected before initiating
the breakaway procedures. Failure to do so could result in the main canopy, still attached to the RSL, sliding up the
reserve lines and collapsing the reserve canopy.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[skydiverek 55]

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Where did you get that information?

'Parachutist', a few months ago.

[Morrison79 0]

If you have a 2 out situation why not just disconnect the RSL straight away?
If you have a Bi plane or side by side that turns into a down plane it would be better to already have the RSL unhooked so you can just chop the main.

[azureriders 0]

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In Reply To
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Why would you disconnect an RSL prior to chopping in a 2 out situation? It's seems pointless.

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Because there's a small chance the RSL might interfere with a clean cutaway in this case. So, if you have the time, disconnect it if you find yourself under a 2out.

Being that most 2 out situations are caused by a low pull in combination with an AAD fire, and also that this comment was originally made towards a down plane configuration, I would argue that you will likely never have time to disconnect an RSL.

I have witnessed 5 cutaways from 2 outs and although I know that is a small test pool, none of the RSLs of those 5 were disconnected nor caused any problems.

IMO you could spend the last few seconds of your life jacking with a small shackle that in over 99% of cases would be just fine left alone, or you could spend that time looking for a safe landing area after quickly acessing the situation and pulling the cut away handle that in more than 99% of cases is going to fix the situation completely. In either case trying to decide if you have time to spend or not, is doing just that, spending time.

In any 2 out other than a downplane, if you would like to disconnect your RSL I would say that would not be a bad idea.

It is very important that before anyone takes my advice here that they know their own gear. As Dragon has already stated, it is a MUST to disconnect the RSL before cutting away any 2 out if using a racer rig with a cross over RSL. However, I do not recommend jumping such a set up for exactly that reason.

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Why would you disconnect an RSL prior to chopping in a 2 out situation? It's seems pointless.

I'll play the devil's advocate and say that you my unhook the rsl if you have time. Many downplanes happen low, with little time to act. Don't lock yourself into thinking you MUST undo the rsl prior to chopping the main on a 2-out downplane.

[popsjumper 2]

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If you have a 2 out situation why not just disconnect the RSL straight away?
If you have a Bi plane or side by side that turns into a down plane it would be better to already have the RSL unhooked so you can just chop the main.

Which is what I teach and why I teach it. It's easy enough to do, takes 1 second, no muss, no fuss, while the canopies are deciding what configuration they want to present.

Train and drill yourself for it and it won't be a problem if/when you get a 2-out.

Don't train yourself for it and well, whatever happens happens. If you suddenly think of it, you may be wasting precious time trying to remember what to do instead of doing it.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239