Ron 7 #1 June 30, 2004 It has been very quiet here about Vigils.... Any new info?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #2 June 30, 2004 The market for Vigils is really soft right now. Get one now and you can "Buy high, sell low and make it up on volume." SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rdutch 0 #3 June 30, 2004 From what I have heard all Vigil (A) units have been replaced. Hopefully the new version has fixed the problem. With it being summer and humid, static is at a minimum, so we wont know for sure until the dry winter air hits us. One sure fire fix that Vigil released is to not route your reserve closing loop through the cutter. That solves the whole misfire problem completely. Seriously, Vigil claims that they have the problem fixed, hopefully they do. Based on their history it doesn't seem like you can take their words for it. All the old units have been replaced, so I would give it a good year (testing) before I would think that the problem is fixed. There still is no answer on the misfire in Deland. Ray Small and fast what every girl dreams of! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #4 July 1, 2004 There are several at my DZ, no problems. I have left my rig ,which has a Vigil in it, in an air-conditioned, dehumidified room overnight and then drug it around on the carpet the next day. Enough static to get my hair to stand up but no problems with the unit. D______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 July 1, 2004 We're in the middle of a cold, dry winter here, and the new Vigils don't seem to be giving any troubles. I've only used one rig with one fitted though - but I still turned it on. Don't want that "Tommy, Tommy, turn it on!" reputation... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jmfreefly 0 #6 July 1, 2004 Well, I think I actually had the last vigil (A) in the US, as Kim kept hounding me to send it back saying that I was one of the last three. She finally sent me a (B) unit before I sent the (A) back. (I wasn't jumping it, as it was out of my rigs). Two points: 1) The (B) units are usable for static line jumps now, as per Kim (in an email to me). This says something, obviously, about their confidence of solving the static problem. 2) The Deland misfire seems to have stumped them, and they haven't been able to find anything 'wrong' with the unit, nor been able to clearly identify a 'root cause' for the fire. (again, this is as per an email from Kim). j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #7 July 1, 2004 Quote1) The (B) units are usable for static line jumps now, as per Kim (in an email to me). This says something, obviously, about their confidence of solving the static problem. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #8 July 1, 2004 Has there been any reported problems with the "B" versions?? I have heard nothing regarding them or of a misfire problem since the recall was started... Also has Vigil put out any press releases or anything to owners that may be of interest?? KIM??????? Any word fro the head guys on the current status and reliability both in air and on ground of the B units............. Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #9 July 1, 2004 I talked to Kim today, and the guys at GAP have about 3800 jumps on a B units, and Majik has about 1000 jumps on the B units. No problems. I've got 150 on my B unit. And there's probably about another 300 on B units at my DZ.______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #10 July 1, 2004 Quote1) The (B) units are usable for static line jumps now, as per Kim (in an email to me). This says something, obviously, about their confidence of solving the static problem. Yeah it says buy a CYPRES Quote2) The Deland misfire seems to have stumped them, and they haven't been able to find anything 'wrong' with the unit, nor been able to clearly identify a 'root cause' for the fire. (again, this is as per an email from Kim). Then how could they "fix" the problem?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #11 July 2, 2004 Hi all. Yes, all Vigils in the US, Canada and South America have been replaced (except for a couple of stragglers). The Vigil, version B, has been in the field since April, many hundreds have been in use for the past couple of months. (And, yes, as some of you have chimed in... some in dry, static environments.) You can believe that the owner of AAD went big on the static electricity shielding once he found out the problems it was creating. The shield and the Vigil have been and are performing without a hitch. Like David said, DeLand Majik has around 1000 jumps on theirs by now, the French National 4-way team also has a bunch of jumps on their Vigils (I don't have their #s. Side note: Majik beat them by one point at a big RW meet in Russia yesterday). The DZ in Gap, France, bought 70 of the version Bs as soon as they came out. They have them in their tandem and student rigs and have around 3800 jumps on them now. Ron, you commented on how Vigil has been quiet. Yes, true. It has taken time, effort (and a lot of money) to get every single Vigil exchanged. So, sales and marketing have taken a back seat to this task. It hasn't been quiet for me or the factory in Belgium but I can see that some people would wonder where we've been. But, now that the exchange is behind us, we'll start running print ads again and I'll go to a couple of boogies this summer (Rantoul for one). New Vigils (version B) have already been selling and I'm very happy that the exchange is over and things are going back to normal. Well... going TO normal would be a better way to put it. I'm the only one doing most company tasks for Vigil USA, so I don't get on to this site for days sometimes. I apologize that I have not been very active here in the past few months. (I also just finished school.) Thank you to those of you who pass on (correct) information! If you think the Vigil is being made in some freaky Belgian skydiver's garage, take a look at the production facilities: http://www.vigil.aero/pdf/VIGIL%20-%20Production.pdf Have a fantastic weekend! Best regards and blue skies, Kim Griffin Vigil USA DeLand, Florida Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #12 July 2, 2004 I am in the market for an new AAD, and I am considering the Vigil. It may help me with my decision if I were to physically see one. I do not know of any skydiver at my home DZ that has one. No skydiver that I know has one. Maybe if Vigil were to give me one, I could introduce and promote the product to the Carolinas.......... (or maybe just a really good deal?????????????) whatta ya say Kim??? How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #13 July 2, 2004 How should we have trust in the current round of testing, when it seems to so closely resemble the previous round? What is Vigil doing differently this time to ensure there are no more critical errors? I'm not trying to slam you or Vigil. I'm legitimately interested in sucess... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #14 July 2, 2004 Hey Kim, congrats for finishing school! (Fun time's over...) Can you reveal any info on that Deland misfire, if there is any? I would really enjoy seeing competition on the market. Good luck and tons'o'fun!The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #15 July 2, 2004 Any word on two-pin vigils? I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #16 July 3, 2004 QuoteI am in the market for an new AAD, and I am considering the Vigil. It may help me with my decision if I were to physically see one. I do not know of any skydiver at my home DZ that has one. No skydiver that I know has one. Maybe if Vigil were to give me one, I could introduce and promote the product to the Carolinas.......... I almost always have one in stock, and we have several at the DZ. If you want to take a trip to Skydive Parkton, I'll be happy to let you see one up close. Dave______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indiana 0 #17 July 5, 2004 Quote: If you think the Vigil is being made in some freaky Belgian skydiver's garage, take a look at the production facilities: http://www.vigil.aero/pdf/VIGIL%20-%20Production.pdf Unquote The photos shown on this page are NOT the production facilities of the vigil. These photos are taken at a SMD manufacturer named ACE Electronics http://www.ace-electronics.be/flash.html located in Diest Belgium and one of the many subcontractors only. The manufacturer of the Vigil is B&B Controls http://www.bbctrls.be in Brussels (Approximately 50 miles more to the East). You obviously try to blur the vision of potential buyers. Considering this company to be the production facility of the Vigil would be the same as Airtec using pictures of the Dynamite Nobel facilities (cutter supplier for Cypress) and claiming that this plant is their production facility. Sorry, the Vigil is produced in a Belgian garage. In one thing you are right; it is not a skydiver’s garage. Indiana PS how sure are you that this time the French train with the Vigils in their rigs? I know for 100% that at last years World championship their rigs were equipped with a Cypress while they had a Vigil patch on their jumpsuit. http://www.ace-electronics.be/flash.html http://www.bbctrls.be Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #18 July 6, 2004 QuoteI know for 100% that at last years World championship their rigs were equipped with a Cypress while they had a Vigil patch on their jumpsuit. You must work with the fucking CIA.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indiana 0 #19 July 6, 2004 Close, SIA* with the exception that I don’t let relevant information to disappear or let the people uninformed about… *Skydiving Information Agency Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #20 July 6, 2004 Thanks, I am going to try to get up there again sometime soon. Johnny (aka)John Hayes Tandem Evaluee #1 How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #21 July 6, 2004 "Indiana", If you have something you feel is worth saying then I think you should have enough integrity to put your name behind it. I wonder why the anonymous post? Maybe next time you could at least go out of your way to create a fake user profile. Anonymous posts like this are the reason why many heads of the manufacturing companies don't bother to post on this site. To say that I would "blur the vision of potential buyers" means you do not know me at all. I'm not sure if you think you are outing Advanced Aerospace Designs here. They are open about the fact that they contract specialized companies to make certain parts of the Vigil. The link I posted last week are pictures of parts of the Vigil being manufactured… no conspiracy or secrets sorry to say. To others who replied to my post: Please email me directly at [email protected] with your questions. I am on email MUCH more often than on dz.com (although, I'll be in Calif and away from my computer July 9-19.). Side note: attached is a picture of the some of the Vigil and Pack Plus staff jumping in Gap, France, a few weeks ago. (Oh dang... it came out smalll ! Sorry! Looks like 60kg is the largest size for an attachment?) Best Regards and Blue Skies, Kim Griffin Vigil USA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #22 July 6, 2004 Hope to see you soon. Tell all at Chester, hello from J. Hayes D______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #23 July 6, 2004 QuoteIf you think the Vigil is being made in some freaky Belgian skydiver's garage, take a look at the production facilities: http://www.vigil.aero/pdf/VIGIL%20-%20Production.pdf Clicky! From what I've read, the Vigil looks like it's going to be an excellent product. I also think the CYPRES is an excellent product, but it's nice to see some competition in the market. Neither computer is perfect, but if perfect computers existed, I wouldn't have a job I would jump with a Vigil with no worries, but I would never count on a computer to save my life. Have there been any Vigil saves yet?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indiana 0 #24 July 7, 2004 *** Indiana", If you have something you feel is worth saying then I think you should have enough integrity to put your name behind it. I wonder why the anonymous post? Maybe next time you could at least go out of your way to create a fake user profile. [/unquote] Are you, due to the fact that I post anonymously, insinuating that my information is not correct? I (re-) checked the forum rules and as far as I understood is there no rule against anonymous posting. Many forum users (not just at DZ.com) do so and for a wide range of reasons. As long as you stick to the rules (almost) nobody cares. However, if I should have overlooked something and anonymous posting is against the rules, I will refrain from doing so. Meanwhile, I dropped this question at the moderator an am awaiting his/her reply. *** Anonymous posts like this are the reason why many heads of the manufacturing companies don't bother to post on this site. [/unquote] Sorry, but I don’t see the relevance between many heads of the manufacturing companies not posting and me doing so anonymous. Maybe they are just to busy with managing their companies? *** To say that I would "blur the vision of potential buyers" means you do not know me at all. [/unquote] I agree, not you try to "blur the vision of potential buyers", the company in Brussels does. (Maybe even including their overseas representatives??) *** I'm not sure if you think you are outing Advanced Aerospace Designs here. They are open about the fact that they contract specialized companies to make certain parts of the Vigil. The link I posted last week are pictures of parts of the Vigil being manufactured… no conspiracy or secrets sorry to say. [/unquote] Sorry, it might be my English but a sentence like is quite confusing. So, you actually meant the production facility of one of the subcontractors? I’m looking forward to see the pictures of the other “production facilities”, including the one in China (no offence). But I think that the Million Dollar question will remain: “Where is the picture of the real production and assembly facility?” I.e. the one in Brussels. If this is not a freaky garage, that should be no problem would it? *** Side note: attached is a picture of the some of the Vigil and Pack Plus staff jumping in Gap, France, a few weeks ago. (Oh dang... it came out smalll ! Sorry! Looks like 60kg is the largest size for an attachment?) [/unquote] What can I say? Try to compress it a bit harder next time. The Vigil and Pack Plus staff?? Do you mean the French team and the staff of Pack Plus or the Pack Plus staff using a Vigil? By the way, do you know why they all have a Vigil? Dear Kim, By your reply it became obvious that you are not aware of all aspects concerning the product you represent. Bearing in mind the distance between where the Vigil is produced and you are operating I understand. This resulted that you have to deal with a limited amount of information (like not clearly defined pictures). Somewhere in your reply you are claiming that I don’t know you. This is true, we never met. However, as many other skydivers I read on this forum how you introduced yourself and since representing the Vigil AAD. Reading them all through once more, this is who I think you are: A highly skilled skydiver, proud and extremely motivated of representing a device that could save the lives of many skydivers. For this attitude I salute you! But Kim take a look at the facts. Not taking into consideration the internal problems at management level, that all skydiving technicians who stood at the cradle of the Vigil left because relevant information intentionally was withheld (as this happened in Belgium) and the product recall, we still have: - One unexplained activation at opening altitude resulting in a double canopy out - One simultaneous opening in Australia by a static line student (have you seen the video??) - One safety bulletin stating that the device was safe to jump (resulting in the incident in Australia) - Another safety bulletin stating the device was safe to jump as long as you did not switch it on and removed the loop from the loop-cutter (bypassing) - Several countries literally grounded the Vigil as even not switched on the cutter could activate, causing sever damage to the reserve canopy and the bypass method could result in a hard pull. This is how the company reacts on emergencies. People could have lost their lives here due to (amongst other issues) very strange recommendations from AAD. Many of us thought the Vigil was the answer to our prayers, including me. However, being here in teeny weenie Belgium we soon found out that the truth about Vigil AAD is less thriving then proclaimed. Also from my side: if you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact me at [email protected] Indiana Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimgriffin 0 #25 July 7, 2004 Dear “Indiana”, I did not say that anonymous posts are against forum rules. It is my opinion that such posts exhibit your lack personal integrity or that you have something to hide from people reading this forum. Let’s see… you have a Dutch skydiving license, you said you are in Belgium, and EVERY SINGLE ONE of your posts on this site has been ONLY to say something against Vigil. Hmmm… I wonder who you could be? (Sorry for the sarcasm.) Of course, you won’t admit to everyone who you are and why you have grievances against AAD but I’m sure you will continue to air your disgruntled opinions and do your best to sway skydivers away from buying a Vigil. I’m sorry you don’t have anything better to do with your time than to discredit a company who is trying honestly and with good intentions to gain popularity in the AAD market. This is not politics or oil industry here, Michael Moore is not going to be making a documentary on how Advanced Aerospace Designs is trying to rule the world with its evil plot to gain power and money through tricking skydivers in to buying its new Vigil AAD. The static electricity shielding issue was fixed a few months ago and almost every Vigil is exchanged now. The version B Vigil has many hundreds of customers world wide who have many thousands of jumps on them over the past few months – without one single problem. I’m not sorry to say that things are going well now. Yeah…. You got me… I was trying to trick everyone by sizing the picture in my last post so small that you wouldn’t recognize the actors posing as Vigil employees. Ha… that was me just being a stupid software user and not having the time to fool with resizing the picture correctly once I realized my mistake. I’m trying again so hopefully it comes out viewable this time. The picture is of some of the people who work for AAD in Brussels and of some of the instructors from the school “Pack Plus” at the Gap, France DZ. It would be nice if the French National Team was in the picture… I’m sure the ladies on this site would enjoy that. Best wishes, Kim Griffin Vigil USA-Kimberly Griffin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
