sillie1111 0 #1 June 2, 2004 Ok I am looking into buying a Sabre 170 DOM92 I saw it this weekend and it is still in very good condition and still crunchy. I was looking around on the forums and found a few scary posts about hard openings with the Sabres. No one at my dropzone nor the person I am buying the rig from mentioned this. Is this something I should be worrying about? Are Sabres really bad on opening? and does age slow the openings at all? All I know is this canopy hasn't been jumped since 2000 but im not sure why, and Im a bit worried that I should not be looking at this, that I might buy this canopy and not like it at all. Does any one have any recommendations about them? Thanks ~Shelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #2 June 2, 2004 There are ways to fix hard opening sabres...everything from the way you pack...to a larger slider...to a pocketed slider. the key is if it is affordable and in good shape buy it. then jump it...if it slams you...like I got slammed and dislocated a finger on the sabre 230 I jumped...get a larger slider or put a pocket on the slider and it will sort it self out. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingbunky 3 #3 June 2, 2004 i recently purchased a similar vintage sabre 190, and haven't had any problems with hard openings. keep in mind, i've only jumped it three times so far. i don't roll the nose or anything else special either. there have been a few posts on this, so a quick search and you'll find reams of info, i now i read a lot of them."Hang on a sec, the young'uns are throwin' beer cans at a golf cart." MB4252 TDS699 killing threads since 2001 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #4 June 2, 2004 While Sabres can open hard by anybodies definition, a normal Sabre opening may seem hard to somebody used to a Spectre or other newer model canopy. Jumpers have asked for softer (read slower) opening canopies and the manufacturers have responded. So your hard opening may be my normal opening. In fact, I was having a problem Sabre being replaced by the factory and had one of the first demo Spectres out in the field. I specifically decided against getting it because it took too long (for me, normal for it) to open. So I got another Sabre. If in fact your particular sabre does open harder than you want it to, it can be addressed as stated above. But when you get out at 2000' (Minimum pack opening altitude for D license) you don't want it to take 700'.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FreeFallJunkie 0 #5 June 2, 2004 A Sabre 170 is actually the first canopy I purchased. Like the one you're talking about, it was an early '90s DoM. I did get a few hard openings from it, and I've been told by a packer at my DZ that the 170 size is notorious for it. I found that rolling the DAYLIGHTS out of the nose, tucking in the center cell, pulling the slider out the front, and - if you need to - folding in the flakes on the tail (i.e. flake it out, the place the flakes in the center one right side, one left, etc.) gave me a beautiful opening. First thing I would check though is the condition of your slider. I downsized to a stiletto 150 that gave me crazy openings, only to discover my slider was worn thin. Since I replaced that , my openings are much better. Other than having to pack carefully (and that mine had a pink top skin, green bottom skin, and magenta end cells), I liked my Sabre and it was a great learning canopy, so good luck with yours! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keith 0 #6 June 2, 2004 If it's a good deal buy it. You'll learn to pack it so it'll give you the openings you want. I have an early 90s Sabre 150 that opens great. The only time it's ever slammed me was when my old rigger would pack it Don't know what he did?Keith Don't Fuck with me Keith - J. Mandeville Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
554 0 #7 June 2, 2004 Not trying to be sarcastic, but how do you dislocate a finger from a hard opening? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jannu 0 #8 June 2, 2004 I have a Sabre170 DOM 91... Well over 1000 jumps jumped.. I've jumped it for about 60 jumps. In the beginning as I packed it myself I was wondering why are people talking about hard openings with Sabre... Back then I called my packjobs Trash-Pro-pack Then as a friend of mine packed it properly... I started getting the feeling of hard openings... Throw the hackey SLAM you're under canopy... Now as I've learned to pack it well (no ZP problems cuz it's "not-so-crispy" anymore) myself, it tends to open fast. Everytime I see it going into d-bag well aligned with nice S-folds I tell myself "yeaah, fast opening..." So I try not to pack it so well... Sounds crazy, maybe stupid to some of you, but it works.. It might open for quite a long time, a little off-headed... but it always opens if you (I) take care of the basic things.. (knocking my head) So.. leave a little air in so it bursts a bit out of the d-bag.. then just push/shove/whatever it in there and stow the lines... IMO you shouldn't be afraid of buying a Sabre.. It wouldn't be one of the most popular (if not THE most popular) canopies around if it were so bad. Just make sure your risers are in good shape and not torn... I just got new risers as the rigger found out they were about to snap around the grommets of the cutaway loop... as he installed a Cypres for me... Could say that the Cypres already saved my life even without activating the reserve Though I regularly check my gear, it's easy to not see everything... Greetings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lewmonst 0 #9 June 2, 2004 QuoteOk I am looking into buying a Sabre 170 DOM92 I saw it this weekend and it is still in very good condition and still crunchy. I was looking around on the forums and found a few scary posts about hard openings with the Sabres. No one at my dropzone nor the person I am buying the rig from mentioned this. Is this something I should be worrying about? Are Sabres really bad on opening? and does age slow the openings at all? All I know is this canopy hasn't been jumped since 2000 but im not sure why, and Im a bit worried that I should not be looking at this, that I might buy this canopy and not like it at all. Does any one have any recommendations about them? Thanks You should try to demo any canopy (or an exact model of) before you buy. Ask the seller if you can demo it for a weekend if you'll pay for shipping both ways plus a few extra bucks, and if you decide to buy it, you'll pay the rest. If it is a good canopy with nothing to worry about, than the seller will likely go for it. But there is probably a reason it hasn't been jumped since 2000. Ask the seller why that is. If I were you, I'd keep shopping around, and I'd definately demo some canopies before you buy anything. Without knowing what you're going to get, there's a chance you won't like it and will be looking to sell and buy something else again anyway. Talk to some more experienced jumpers you trust about you choice. I wish I had know more before I bought my first rig... Anyone want to buy an antique Sweethog with a Falcon 235? ... didn't think so. peace lewhttp://www.exitshot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #10 June 2, 2004 QuoteNot trying to be sarcastic, but how do you dislocate a finger from a hard opening? I used to have a real bad habit of getting my hands up...I got spanked so hard I saw stars...some how my left hand hit my risers as it violently opened over me and I had a backwards pointing finger where all the others were pointing towards my palm...I dont remember how it hit it due to the violent nature of the opening...cool thing is it's on video... OUCH....tough flaring that bad boy too after all that. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koz2000 1 #11 June 2, 2004 I had a hard opening on a Velocity which dislocated my ankle. Mainly from the whipping going through that instant 100+mph deceleration. Talk to guys who used to jump the first squares (without sliders) and hear how they could break ankles and wrists on openings. OUCH______________________________________________ - Does this small canopy make my balls look big? - J. Hayes - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #12 June 3, 2004 In talking to MEL at Icarus about a lineset for my VX - he said he can build a dome slider to make it open nice. If I had to jump a Sabre again that is what I'd do. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #13 June 3, 2004 It can also be canopy specific to a good degree. By that I mean that not all Sabre's will open hard. There are plenty of people, myself included, who will tell you that their Sabre opened lovely and softly. My 190 never slammed me and I used to leave the nose hung, unrolled, down the front of the packjob (a clasic way of speeding openings). There's one simple way of solving your dilema. Test jump it. It is slams you, and you can't find ways to slow it with packing methods (almost always possible) you know you're looking at a modded or replacement slider to control the openings. You can then make you decision to buy armed with that knowledge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #14 June 3, 2004 Search for the "Wolmari" packing method. I got slammed a bit at first on my Sabre 120, but learning to pack using the Wolmari method prevented slammers for my next 400 openings. I made no equipment mods, whatsoever. In essence, you're just putting the (unrolled) nose in about the center of the pack job, and then really cupping the slider to cover up the nose. But try to find a more detailed description with photos and/or illustrations. The Sabre is a great canopy with a lot of range. It can be really docile, or you can swoop the piss out of it. Recommended, especially if the price is right."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fundgh 0 #15 June 3, 2004 This sounds like the way I pack my Sabre. I don't get hard openings, and I never really have. But I found a method and stick with it. Roll the nose, tuck back towards the middle of the canopy, pull the slider out in front, and roll the tail. I am always reall careful to keep the slider gromets on the stops. Good luck!...FUN FOR ALL! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #16 June 4, 2004 QuoteIn essence, you're just putting the (unrolled) nose in about the center of the pack job, and then really cupping the slider to cover up the nose. That's what I do. I've only had a couple of brisk openings, and those were when I thought to myself, "I really should repack this..."-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #17 June 6, 2004 I am a (happy) owner of a Sabre 135, and have been a professional packer for 9 years. My experience with the sabre is that each individual canopy has it's own personality. Some, like my own, open consistently and sofly with a reasonably careful packjob and a couple tricks to slow it down, while others slam the jumper every time, no matter what I try to do to fix it. The best advice I can give has already been given... try to get ahold of that canopy and jump it a few times. If you don't like the first couple openings, talk to a rigger or experienced packer to see if they can give you a few tips. Also try to be aware of your body position before opening. When I first bought my Sabre, I remember pulling while almost still in a track, and DAMN those openings were quick! As soon as I realized what I was doing, I stopped, and the openings suddenly became much more comfortable . Anyway, bottom line: get a few jumps on the canopy, and if you like it, go for it. If it slams you at first, try a couple tricks... if it's still slamming you, well... time to look for a new canopy! Blue Skies, and good luck!"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellm1 0 #18 June 6, 2004 I too own a sabre 135, I have also owned a 150 and a 170! Can u see a trend here?!?!?... I like them alot, have never had one hard opening on mine, only maybe a "different" opening when someone else had packed it for me! And yeah I agree with most of these posts in saying its all in the packing. Deffo! I roll the nose and the tail. I have had superb openings from my sabre. In fact I am reluctant to buy anything else at the moment cos I like it so much. Only prob is I am putting loads of jumps onto it so will have to upgrade soon. If its a bargain and its history is right then I would say buy it, get someone to check it out first though just to be sure as per usual. If you do get it, then get some packing tips from your rigger or a packer at your drop zone, see if that helps. -------------------------------- "Life is an adventure, dare it" Mother Teresa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #19 June 7, 2004 What is interesting though...is that with my Safire I dont have to worry about every little thing in a pack job...an neat pack job or a trash pack both give me consistant smooth soft openings....everytime...why is it with a Sabre 1 it has to be packed so anal?? if my GF doesn't flat pack her's in her special way it will knock the shit out of her everytime.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 #20 June 7, 2004 The slider sorts out most of my problems. Big and right up in front of the nose. Let it start working from the word go. Works for me.You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
unformed 0 #21 June 7, 2004 If I were you and the price is right, go ahead and buy the Sabre. It may not have the cleanest openings but it's a good canopy and you'll learn quite a bit from it. I just bought a Conquest (which is like a Sabre) for my first. Man, after one opening where I got a whiplash I was on the verge of burning the canopy right then and there. BUT, I figured out how to pack it nicely. What I do is roll the nose after flaking it. (Roll the four cells on each side inwards and push the center cell in.) Then push the slider all the way back, pull the four tail cells all the way over to the other side so each side overlaps the other. (I do one right, one left, one right, one left, etc.) Also, get them to cover the slider as well. Then spread the stabilizers over the slider as tight as you can get it. Then after you pull the tail over and before you lay it down, pull the tail around the canopy as tight as you can and roll it as tight as you can. This will slow down your canopy by quite a bit, and it'll be a really smooth opening. If it's too slow lay off of some of the rolling to speed it up. (This also helps in stuffing it into the bag since now it's packed really tight. Also, when packing, think about this. The two things that speed up your opening are: 1) How fast the slider comes down. The faster it it, the faster the main will fully inflate. So, if you cover the slider with the stabilzers/tail, it's slow it down since the canopy will need to partially inflate before the slider can come down. 2) How easily air can get into the canopy. If the cells are simply flaked and placed on top of each other, they will inflate relatively immediately. If the cells are rolled, the will slowly inflate while it's unrolling.unroll. Lastly, if you're worried about packing too tight or doing something wrong, your canopy will always open once its out. Just make sure your lines are cleanly placed and won't tangle with each other or the canopy. Then again, I am new it this, so if I've got something, someone please feel free to correct me. This is just what I got from talking to people and reading as much as I could online. Also, if doing this, pull a little high on your first jump, so you can feel the opening without being too worried.This ad space for sale. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellm1 0 #22 June 7, 2004 ahhaaaaa.. cant speak for your girlfriend, but I am far from anal when I pack my sabre, I hardly faff with it at all, and my openings are consistent. I notice people taking ages to neaten everything and blah blah... question.. why is she flat packing a ZP canopy? can she not pro pack it.. maybe thats one of her probs.. just a thought.. ----------------- "Life is an adventure, dare it" Mother Teresa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #23 June 8, 2004 Quotecan she not pro pack it.. when she doesn't flat pack it she gets spanked...it's not even a real flat pack...it's an odd flat pack..but it works to tame the openings... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shellm1 0 #24 June 8, 2004 if it aint broken dont fix it! whatever works then I spose, just hav never heard of flat packing a sabre. --------------- "Life is an adventure, dare it" Mother Teresa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cappio 0 #25 June 8, 2004 I had about 1000 jumps on a Sabre210 before I swithed to the Spectre. After 1K jumps the Sabre still flew great, but over those years of jumping, I came to the realization that once in a great while the Sabre was going to slam me. It didn't matter how careful I packed, new or old line set, phase of the moon or whatever. The slam frequency could be greatly reduced by due care in packing and maintenance, but sooner or later, slam! Just the nature of the beast. It was a great canopy over all, despite the rare slamming. I would suggest, if at all possible, you get a similarly sized Spectre or Sabre2. Both of these canopies have a reduced slam factor. You should also jump any canopy your thinking of buying at least for the weekend before putting your money down. Enjoy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
