skybytch 259 #1 May 19, 2004 Just got a press release from PD regarding the release of a new reserve size. It's a 99. Price is the same as the 106R and 113R - US$1086 list until the increase on June 4th, at which point list will be US$1150. Specs are up on PD's website. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #2 May 19, 2004 I knew they had it TSOd, quite some time ago I believe, but I didn't think they would ever start selling it. I have a video of who I believe is Vladi Pesa landing the thing. Amazing, since Vladi is as big as I am. Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #3 May 19, 2004 *sigh* I wish they hadn't. There is nothing wrong with the product. In fact I'm sure it's one of the highest quality reserves out there. PD makes a great reserve, but I can't think of 10 skydivers that should be flying that thing. It's an unfortunate fact that those that wish to "be cool" are only going to look at the 220 Max weight suggested and decide their 180 pound ass can jump it. I hope dealers remember that they might just have a moral obligation to protect themselve, the sport, and maybe the jumper trying to by one. I know Lisa and I will. Both Aerodyne and PD have created these 99 sq ft canopies (as well as the rest of their products) as tools for the proper athletes. I just hope people remember to use them right. 1.8 and above is a bad idea for a low porosity 7 cell design. Edit: to check some info....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #4 May 19, 2004 And landing the thing at a 1.8 w/l, unconscious and off-field might really suck. Seriously, what could possibly be a valid reason for anybody using this size reserve? Vanity is the only one I can think of, if you can even call that valid. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #5 May 19, 2004 QuoteSeriously, what could possibly be a valid reason for anybody using this size reserve? Well someone who is 90-110lbs and experienced would be alright, but I can't think of a container that this would fit in the the 106 wouldn't.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #6 May 19, 2004 I agree with you, diablopilot. It 'should' be a moral issue with dealers to be really careful about who they sell one of those little things to. I see, so many 'newbies' watching the guys/gals with thousands of jumps on small elipticals and then come to me and want a 135-Stiletto. I have no problem telling them NO! I agree also, a small person 80 - 100lbs. with loads of experience sure, but, not someone with low jump numbers. The equipment does not a skydiver make! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RozeAY 0 #7 May 19, 2004 QuoteWell someone who is 90-110lbs and experienced would be alright, but I can't think of a container that this would fit in the the 106 wouldn't. That's what I was thinking. I'm small enough that I'd only have a 1.2-1.3 WL on it. But there is no container that will only fit the 99. Therefore, why not get the largest reserve you can? Thats why I have my 113. Now, if there was a smaller container I think it would be great. I'd love to have a rig that doesn't sit on my butt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #8 May 19, 2004 >Seriously, what could possibly be a valid reason for anybody using >this size reserve? Cause they want a small container, and many container manufacturers still make containers with larger main than reserve sizing. So if they jump a 99 main, they have a choice of getting a PD143 with a main container sized for a 150-170, or they can get a 99 sq ft reserve and go with a main container sized for a 107. Dumb? Yes. But I believe that's one reason people do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CrazyRock 0 #9 May 20, 2004 Ok, on the topic of manufactures being irresponsible: skybitchs post reminded me of something i heard the other day.. Quote Cani Lands Smallest Parachute (05/12/04) Brazilian jumper Luigi Cani reportedly landed an Icarus VX 39 (square feet) at Perris Valley Skydiving, near Los Angeles, May 12. Several jumpers have landed a VX 46, but Cani and Icarus Canopies believe this is the smallest parachute jumped and landed to date. The smallest known commercially available parachute is the Atair Onyx 55. 39 square feet?!?!?! come on... I don't think the canapy manufactures should be encouraging this.. i think its kinda irresponsible of icarus.... -Seth :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #10 May 20, 2004 QuoteOk, on the topic of manufactures being irresponsible I don't feel PD is being irresponsible by releasing this size reserve. It's been ready to go, TSO'd and tested, but they've been sitting on it for over a year. They wouldn't have released it if they didn't think there is a market for it. As JP said, hopefully all of their dealers will be responsible in who they sell them to. Quote39 square feet?!?!?! come on... I don't think the canapy manufactures should be encouraging this.. i think its kinda irresponsible of icarus.... It's irresponsible of a canopy manufacturer to build a canopy that small as a research tool and then ask one of the world's best canopy pilots to fly it? Sorry, I disagree. Pushing the limits by experienced and talented people is how the sport grows. I doubt 99% of skydivers will ever fly something anywhere near that small, but who knows? Fifteen years ago the thought of flying a sub-100 sq ft parachute was considered to be nuts by most jumpers and look how many jumpers fly them today... . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjasantos 0 #11 May 20, 2004 Quote39 square feet?!?!?! come on... I don't think the canapy manufactures should be encouraging this.. i think its kinda irresponsible of icarus.... You need to understand that the key words here are R&D (Research & Development). These tests have not the goal to release the VX 39 to the general public making it available for anyone with more or less experience and willing to buy it. The canopy manufacturers now placed at the edge of the R&D regarding high performance canopies (Icarus, Atair, Precision, ..., just to mention some) have been doing things that would be considered beyond extreme by the majority of the skydivers and public, but required to keep improving technicals and safety of the skydiving gear. Test pilots push their limits everyday, but that's why they are test pilots: they do stuff that nobody else does... and if limits are always being pushed from where they are now, test pilots will quite often find themselves in situations that they have never ever experienced before. Nobody knows how far R&D can reach, but all of us need to understand that these kind of tests will bring benefits even for bigger sized canopies: the purpose here is not just the downsizing factor. Regarding Icarus, as for the VX 46 project, they have now a VX 39 project... and probably they won't stop here. Just remember that Atair test pilots already jumped but not landed a Cobalt 25, and Precision test pilots also jumped but not landed a XAOS 21... so it's likely that Icarus is and will be doing the very same track on the pursuit of the excelence required by canopy buyers. The real purpose of any canopy manufacturer while doing this kind of stuff, is well described here: Icarus’s motivation to pursue this type of testing results from our pursuit to lead the industry in parachute designs across the experience spectrum. Testing our design capabilities and theories at this level has a direct benefit to the entire Icarus range and parachute technology as a whole. (...) NOTE: Flying canopies at this level should only be conducted by factory test pilots under controlled conditions. http://www.icaruscanopies.com/canopies/EXTreme_VX/EXTremeVX46.htm The last paragraph of the quote shows these guys (Icarus or any other manufacturer) are not irresponsible or just nuts. They care as well about their test pilots and impose them restrictions whenever they feel things can go out of control or that their lives have a higher than affordable probability to be put at risk. Blue Skies! ----------------------------- Mario Santos Portugal Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #12 May 20, 2004 Quote39 square feet?!?!?! come on... I don't think the canapy manufactures should be encouraging this.. i think its kinda irresponsible of icarus.... Encouraging what? The use of test pilots to push the limits of our sport? Does it seem to you that they are marketing the 39 as Luigi's everyday canopy? High performance canopies arent for everybody and I can see many "ban hook turn" enthusiasts as seeing this as irresponsible activity but in fact it is anything but. And besides, I believe the discussion was the shrinking sizes of reserves, not mains. 2 totally different ballgames. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggermick 6 #13 May 20, 2004 QuoteAnd landing the thing at a 1.8 w/l, unconscious and off-field might really suck. Seriously, what could possibly be a valid reason for anybody using this size reserve? Vanity is the only one I can think of, if you can even call that valid. It's all about vanity, always has been. Jumpers have wanted smaller and smaller stuff for 25 years or more. If some one is vain enough to actually have one of these in their rig then they may as well sell their AAD because they are not going to need it. landing unconcious on concrete or hitting the corner of a building would in all probability be fatal. Mick. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #14 May 20, 2004 Quote Just got a press release from PD regarding the release of a new reserve size. It's a 99. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scottish rant! Are they nuts? I am still angry at PD for releasing the PD113R! It was never the smallest reserve on the market! Precision and PISA were already building smaller reserves! But those silly container manufacturers followed fashion in building even smaller reserve containers to fit it! Why I remember packing the first PD113R - on the West Coast - for Dale Stuart! Up hill! Both ways! In the snow! Broke my back! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cvfd1399 0 #15 May 20, 2004 Looking over everyones gear in the classifieds I have came to a conclusion that ><75%+- of the jumpers have a reserve smaller than their main to make the rig smaller/lighter. I mean, some people buy the smallest main that they can stand without spooking the crap out of themselves, and then they get a reserve smaller than that. It might be ok to land it if you are awake, but what if you got knocked out? I think it should be manditory that your main/reserve be the same size or bigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnischalke 0 #16 May 20, 2004 Yeppers. All the experience in the world won't mean shit when you're unconscious or broken, dangling under a heavily loaded F1-11 7-cell. I guess I am glad companies like Mirage build containers to house your little mini-turf surfer as well as a somewhat adequate-sized reserve. My thought is: If I wouldn't BASE a certain-sized reserve off the big span in WV, I have no business thinking it's an acceptable last-resort canopy. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hooknswoop 19 #17 May 20, 2004 All this outrage over PD's new 99 sq. ft. reserve..... Any guesses on how PD’s 99 compares, size wise, to PA's MR-109-M. Hint: it isn't 10 sq. ft. smaller. Numbers is one thing, actual size is another, and the bottom line is performance regardless of sq. ft. Vanity? Maybe, but how many people crying foul have 1000+ jumps and jump a main and reserve over 200 sq. ft.? I hate to admit it, or encourage anyone to downsize for this reason, but a smaller/lighter rig allows a skydiver to turn, track, and move faster. Once the rig is narrow enough that it is out of the air stream, it no longer plays a role in drag, etc and allows to skydiver to fly better. Of course jumping a small rig simply to improve free fall performance is stupid, especially if the performance of the main or reserve is outside your abilities. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #18 May 20, 2004 QuoteEncouraging what? The use of test pilots to push the limits of our sport? Does it seem to you that they are marketing the 39 as Luigi's everyday canopy? High performance canopies arent for everybody and I can see many "ban hook turn" enthusiasts as seeing this as irresponsible activity but in fact it is anything but. Exactly. He's been jumping it all week on a special project, and has been cutting it away, rather than landing it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #19 May 20, 2004 QuoteLooking over everyones gear in the classifieds I have came to a conclusion that ><75%+- of the jumpers have a reserve smaller than their main to make the rig smaller/lighter. In my last 5 years spent selling gear I can say that's not true anymore. Years ago that may have been the trend, but a majority of the systems sold today are either the same size or reserve is slighly bigger than the main.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BETO74 0 #20 May 20, 2004 Yeah.......... right, Same thing about who think a man on the moon will be a good idea? - It's all about research and development like somebody already said so it's all good.http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Brains 2 #21 May 20, 2004 QuoteIn my last 5 years spent selling gear I can say that's not true anymore. Years ago that may have been the trend, but a majority of the systems sold today are either the same size or reserve is slighly bigger than the main. And i believe THIS thread confirms that. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites EAerodyne 0 #22 May 20, 2004 I am trying to find the time to put together some information for the forum, with regards to measuring and sizing canopies. There is no standard, and it creates difficulty to size containers correctly and for people to make an educated guess as to if the canopy is suited for their ability, proficiency, suspended weight, field elevation etc. However with due respect to frequent forum visitors and having watched the flaming that takes place when a manufacturer does post something of this nature, it may take me sometime. What I can say is this. You can only fit a pint of water in a pint size bottle or larger. In other words, if it packs larger it probably is larger. (please note the word probably) and secondly not all parachutes are sized equal. As a skydiver and as an instructor I would have to say, make sure of what size the canopy you think of buying is, and measure the competitive product you are evaluating in the same manner, before making your final bid. You may be very surprised. blue ones Bushman Edward Anderson Chief Of Operations Aerodyne Research. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SLOfreefall 0 #23 May 20, 2004 Quote and secondly not all parachutes are sized equal. reply] Why is there gray area about how to size a canopy? It seems that a physical dimension should be easy for anybody to measure, and there shouldn't be different measurements for the same piece of nylon. I've heard this a few times and never quite understood. Could you shed some light on this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #24 May 20, 2004 QuoteIt seems that a physical dimension should be easy for anybody to measure, and there shouldn't be different measurements for the same piece of nylon. Imagine if you will measuring the botom skin of a canopy and using that as your size. Now imagine measuring the top skin WHILE INFLATED, and using that as your size. now with either of those do you include the stabilizers or not? Starting to become clear as mud? Good. Been that murky in the industry for YEARS.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grosfion 0 #25 May 21, 2004 One thing which is bugging me: Why is that so difficult to get a container which fits a 150 reserve and a 107 main? All the people I jump with have smaller mains (non crossbraced) than reserves. I like your company a lot, but looking at the sizing chart , I do not understand why you encourage jumpers to jump same size of main / reserve or smaller reserves than the main. e.g you can combine a 120 reserve and a 150 main, but not a 150 reserve and a 120 main At the moment only a few manufacturers are able to satisfy my needs. I had to buy one of the smallest 150 reserves (packing volume) to fit the container. Am I the only one thinking like this??? I landed 150 reserve a few times and this is no fun. I only know one manufacturer (Sunrise Rigging) who have a "proper" sizing scheme.. My friend jumping a 150 reserve and a Nitro 88 in his Wings. Is that one point which makes this company so popular these days? blues Marcus edit: to add more info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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cvfd1399 0 #15 May 20, 2004 Looking over everyones gear in the classifieds I have came to a conclusion that ><75%+- of the jumpers have a reserve smaller than their main to make the rig smaller/lighter. I mean, some people buy the smallest main that they can stand without spooking the crap out of themselves, and then they get a reserve smaller than that. It might be ok to land it if you are awake, but what if you got knocked out? I think it should be manditory that your main/reserve be the same size or bigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnischalke 0 #16 May 20, 2004 Yeppers. All the experience in the world won't mean shit when you're unconscious or broken, dangling under a heavily loaded F1-11 7-cell. I guess I am glad companies like Mirage build containers to house your little mini-turf surfer as well as a somewhat adequate-sized reserve. My thought is: If I wouldn't BASE a certain-sized reserve off the big span in WV, I have no business thinking it's an acceptable last-resort canopy. mike Girls only want boyfriends who have great skills--You know, like nunchuk skills, bow-hunting skills, computer-hacking skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #17 May 20, 2004 All this outrage over PD's new 99 sq. ft. reserve..... Any guesses on how PD’s 99 compares, size wise, to PA's MR-109-M. Hint: it isn't 10 sq. ft. smaller. Numbers is one thing, actual size is another, and the bottom line is performance regardless of sq. ft. Vanity? Maybe, but how many people crying foul have 1000+ jumps and jump a main and reserve over 200 sq. ft.? I hate to admit it, or encourage anyone to downsize for this reason, but a smaller/lighter rig allows a skydiver to turn, track, and move faster. Once the rig is narrow enough that it is out of the air stream, it no longer plays a role in drag, etc and allows to skydiver to fly better. Of course jumping a small rig simply to improve free fall performance is stupid, especially if the performance of the main or reserve is outside your abilities. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 May 20, 2004 QuoteEncouraging what? The use of test pilots to push the limits of our sport? Does it seem to you that they are marketing the 39 as Luigi's everyday canopy? High performance canopies arent for everybody and I can see many "ban hook turn" enthusiasts as seeing this as irresponsible activity but in fact it is anything but. Exactly. He's been jumping it all week on a special project, and has been cutting it away, rather than landing it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #19 May 20, 2004 QuoteLooking over everyones gear in the classifieds I have came to a conclusion that ><75%+- of the jumpers have a reserve smaller than their main to make the rig smaller/lighter. In my last 5 years spent selling gear I can say that's not true anymore. Years ago that may have been the trend, but a majority of the systems sold today are either the same size or reserve is slighly bigger than the main.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BETO74 0 #20 May 20, 2004 Yeah.......... right, Same thing about who think a man on the moon will be a good idea? - It's all about research and development like somebody already said so it's all good.http://web.mac.com/ac057a/iWeb/AC057A/H0M3.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #21 May 20, 2004 QuoteIn my last 5 years spent selling gear I can say that's not true anymore. Years ago that may have been the trend, but a majority of the systems sold today are either the same size or reserve is slighly bigger than the main. And i believe THIS thread confirms that. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EAerodyne 0 #22 May 20, 2004 I am trying to find the time to put together some information for the forum, with regards to measuring and sizing canopies. There is no standard, and it creates difficulty to size containers correctly and for people to make an educated guess as to if the canopy is suited for their ability, proficiency, suspended weight, field elevation etc. However with due respect to frequent forum visitors and having watched the flaming that takes place when a manufacturer does post something of this nature, it may take me sometime. What I can say is this. You can only fit a pint of water in a pint size bottle or larger. In other words, if it packs larger it probably is larger. (please note the word probably) and secondly not all parachutes are sized equal. As a skydiver and as an instructor I would have to say, make sure of what size the canopy you think of buying is, and measure the competitive product you are evaluating in the same manner, before making your final bid. You may be very surprised. blue ones Bushman Edward Anderson Chief Of Operations Aerodyne Research. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SLOfreefall 0 #23 May 20, 2004 Quote and secondly not all parachutes are sized equal. reply] Why is there gray area about how to size a canopy? It seems that a physical dimension should be easy for anybody to measure, and there shouldn't be different measurements for the same piece of nylon. I've heard this a few times and never quite understood. Could you shed some light on this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #24 May 20, 2004 QuoteIt seems that a physical dimension should be easy for anybody to measure, and there shouldn't be different measurements for the same piece of nylon. Imagine if you will measuring the botom skin of a canopy and using that as your size. Now imagine measuring the top skin WHILE INFLATED, and using that as your size. now with either of those do you include the stabilizers or not? Starting to become clear as mud? Good. Been that murky in the industry for YEARS.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grosfion 0 #25 May 21, 2004 One thing which is bugging me: Why is that so difficult to get a container which fits a 150 reserve and a 107 main? All the people I jump with have smaller mains (non crossbraced) than reserves. I like your company a lot, but looking at the sizing chart , I do not understand why you encourage jumpers to jump same size of main / reserve or smaller reserves than the main. e.g you can combine a 120 reserve and a 150 main, but not a 150 reserve and a 120 main At the moment only a few manufacturers are able to satisfy my needs. I had to buy one of the smallest 150 reserves (packing volume) to fit the container. Am I the only one thinking like this??? I landed 150 reserve a few times and this is no fun. I only know one manufacturer (Sunrise Rigging) who have a "proper" sizing scheme.. My friend jumping a 150 reserve and a Nitro 88 in his Wings. Is that one point which makes this company so popular these days? blues Marcus edit: to add more info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
diablopilot 2 #24 May 20, 2004 QuoteIt seems that a physical dimension should be easy for anybody to measure, and there shouldn't be different measurements for the same piece of nylon. Imagine if you will measuring the botom skin of a canopy and using that as your size. Now imagine measuring the top skin WHILE INFLATED, and using that as your size. now with either of those do you include the stabilizers or not? Starting to become clear as mud? Good. Been that murky in the industry for YEARS.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grosfion 0 #25 May 21, 2004 One thing which is bugging me: Why is that so difficult to get a container which fits a 150 reserve and a 107 main? All the people I jump with have smaller mains (non crossbraced) than reserves. I like your company a lot, but looking at the sizing chart , I do not understand why you encourage jumpers to jump same size of main / reserve or smaller reserves than the main. e.g you can combine a 120 reserve and a 150 main, but not a 150 reserve and a 120 main At the moment only a few manufacturers are able to satisfy my needs. I had to buy one of the smallest 150 reserves (packing volume) to fit the container. Am I the only one thinking like this??? I landed 150 reserve a few times and this is no fun. I only know one manufacturer (Sunrise Rigging) who have a "proper" sizing scheme.. My friend jumping a 150 reserve and a Nitro 88 in his Wings. Is that one point which makes this company so popular these days? blues Marcus edit: to add more info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
