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Fatality: Swiss Valley

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Csabi, I met you in Budapest boogie 04, and couple of times in ITW. It was really privilege to meet you and all of hungarian crew. Lots of funny things were said...couple of Vodka were done...jumping also.
And now you are gone. So sad :(:(
Lots of power and good will to Hungariand crew, his family, Csaber, Andras and the others from the Finnish crew. We most certainly will have a little bit of Vodka for this. Cheers...!!!

Pete

_____________________________________________
F......ck the Finns !!!
FastPete www.pete.fi email: pete@pete.fi

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I am with you on your post but I wonder if posting anything anymore means anything to anyone. I tend to think that the ones that listen are just reinforcing what they know to be true, while those that dont read the board... well they just don't care. Its akin to locking your door... It only keeps the honest, honest; if you want to break in, you will...

It is the people that don't care that will make it harder for the rest of us. and that is sad :(

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I posted because there has been too many of these situations that have actually occurred in very recent times. The world does not seem to learn.


Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

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OK rob...I read it everyday to I'm finally going to post again. Not that anyone wants to hear...(but I don't care)...

I'm almost as phucked up as Spacey (in the head) after seeing so many needless fatalities and being a part of so many rescues of dead BASE bodies and broken limbs...living to see crap like this substantiates my reasons to check out other things life has to offer...that said - here's my take.

After being in retirement for over 3 years now...reading 30 fatalities since DW...too many being good friends lost...to read about posts like this is very sad but inevitable in this sport. BASE generates so much excitement, people forget about the lethal nature of jumping from an object with a parachute. BASE will eventually either end your life or dramatically change it. People take this sport way too lightly. My advice (which may sound hypocritical after throwing 100 bodies off Kjerag) is to start slow...a pendulator, then a bridge, then a big (terminal) overhung cliff, then start thinking of other ways to potentially kill yourself with a parachute (that provide less risk).

Staldenflu is not a good cliff to do your first jump. I remember my first jump there, #234, with a ZP canopy (now there's a bad idea for a BASE canopy), a solo after trying to find the exit of this WAY overhung cliff I could see from the valley floor. That was my impression..."it's huge, it's WAY overhung, and it's perfectly safe!" On the contrary, it's 8 seconds to impact and requires a good track to get some distance from the cliff. A beginner should never consider this cliff...or any cliff in the valley...or any cliff at all!

Beginners should take it slow! I did and look what it got me, a broken back, a broken heel, separated ribs, facial lacerations...3 trips to the hospital in 5 different incidences - and I didn't even die! After jump #275 I found the more forgiving learning curve - no more injuries! I Didn't even see a fatality for the first 3 years...another good reason to push it hard! When you are a beginner, you see everything through beginner's eyes. Eyes that have very little idea of what they are looking at. Find a new epistemology...Listen to what the guys with hundreds of jumps are saying and don't think you're special and don't need to hear the steh crap they're saying.

Enjoy the camaraderie! The travel! The visuals! Start sensibly and learn how to get stable and get used to the overwhelming visuals before raising your bar. Enjoy BASE for what it is...don't take shortcuts, and have some god damn respect for the sport and the sites! Just because it looks easy and you're a skydiver with lots of experience doesn't make you an experienced BASE jumper! Learn from the mistakes of others. Read The List (thanks Nick!) and intimately understand each mistake...because that's what they are - mistakes! Don't be another statistic and miss the rest of this opportunity to breath easily...

Now that you've read my stupid lecture...I'm gonna go sit in an office so I can pay the mortgage...now that's living!

Seriously tho, sorry this jumper's family has to live through the horror. He should of had the chance to make 1000 more BASE jumps...

JJ

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I don't know why I'm fighting this corner, but i guess it must matter to me so...

This thread is entitled Fatality: Swiss Valley and as such comments will be read in that light - as pertaining to the fatality on Saturday in the Swiss Valley.

Csabi - the jumper who died on Saturday - is reported to have had 490 BASE jumps or thereabouts which by anyone's standards ought to make him an experienced jumper (insomuch as he had 490jumps worth of prior experience).

I just thought that point is worth reiterating for anyone who cares about commenting on the facts in hand. Of course if there's anyone out there who'd like to vent in this thread about other unrelated subjects (maybe a monologue on securing your pilot chute to your bridle, or not using modified skydiving gear - subjects which equally have no bearing on this fatality) then i guess this thread (read soapbox)is as good as any.

ian

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...and all the crap TVPB has now edited out are absolutely fucking disgraceful and the posters should be ashamed of themselves. This man is not even in the ground and yet he and his friends are being publically slated by people who know fuck all about the situation. It's sickening.



For me, yes that applies but not TVPB. Most of the people responding had a "if this is true" written in some form.

As for this whole thing, I would like to apologize especially to the two other jumpers. Losing a friend is terrible, and reading crap about him and yourself after that, well, if it was me I'd find it hard to accept an apology...

I would also like to apologize to the readers of this thread who have to sift through 2 pages of BS before getting any hard fact. I am responsible for starting this and you'd think that with all the time I waste on the internet lately I'd know better...


poc

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I don't know why I'm fighting this corner, but i guess it must matter to me so...

This thread is entitled Fatality: Swiss Valley and as such comments will be read in that light - as pertaining to the fatality on Saturday in the Swiss Valley.

Csabi - the jumper who died on Saturday - is reported to have had 490 BASE jumps or thereabouts which by anyone's standards ought to make him an experienced jumper (insomuch as he had 490jumps worth of prior experience).

I just thought that point is worth reiterating for anyone who cares about commenting on the facts in hand. Of course if there's anyone out there who'd like to vent in this thread about other unrelated subjects (maybe a monologue on securing your pilot chute to your bridle, or not using modified skydiving gear - subjects which equally have no bearing on this fatality) then i guess this thread (read soapbox)is as good as any.

ian



This is one reason why it's called the dorkzone. I always regret posting here...

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Apparently this would have been his second BASE jump. His first was a hand held off the same spot. When questioned about it, the two other hungarians with him got all defensive and adopted a "mind your own business" attitude...

His two buddies must be a bit dodgy to go and dispatch him off a rock on his first jumps ever... That's just stupid!

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If this is factual then I fully agree. Seems like a no brainer. There's no way in hell I would jump that site. The question is: Why are some inexperienced jumpers making such poor decisions? Is it being driven by more expienced jumpers instilling false confidence in these jumpers? Or is it just an outright disconnect with good information?

I know my closest friend in BASE who has something over 200 or so jumps, would never assist me in jumping from anything other than a bridge or other very beginner level object at this point given my very limited experience.

With the constant internet and/or word of mouth discussions about the "Recipe for learning to BASE" as safely as possible, where is this disconnect coming from?

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Just got other info the thread about the decease being very experienced. Sorry about that. Drugs.

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This is one reason why it's called the dorkzone.



Hang on a sec! You have the balls to call this the dorkzone, but you don't even have the balls to show who you are.

People are free to discuss whatever they want on here and you can tell them what you think of what they said. But to call the whole forum a 'dorkzone' is slighty out of line. YOU are the DORK by doing that, in case you didn't realize. And I am now contiously making a dork out of myself to even spend time on telling you this.

My reason for posting on this forum is because I work offshore on oil-rig and I'm bored to death (don't tell my boss...:)). Also this particular thread is about my local spot. Everybody else has their own reasons so let them be and discuss with them what you like. But don't tell them what you think is right or wrong, cause you might be wrong you know.

J.

Damn, reading this back I realize I must be really bored...:P

www.vandrunen.ch

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I met Csaba in Hungary summer 2005 at the Base Contest, an experienced jumper and a great guy! I had a great time there, it felt like home with all the great hungarian guys. I know he will be missed by all who knew him and he will be in their minds forever. My condolences and sympathy to his parents and his great friends Csaber, Attila, Tomaz and all the Hungarian Base Crew (I'm sorry, I don't remember all the names).
You will be missed, fly free Csaba.

And may I say to all who filled up the first page and a half: Even if the story (who all you mindfuckers put on the forum) was true about the 2nd jump and blablabla.... who are you to say that it is stupid or give comments??? I think on a topic like this, you should only send your condolences to the people who are left behind with grief and a lot of sadness in their hearts! Imagine how it feels to read all this shit if you lost someone dear. I don't know who all this people are ( I don't want to know) but I hope they've learned a lesson in taking precipitous decisions and that they will think twice the next time they post something on a topic this delicate.

Goodbye Csaba
Nathalie
x:(

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I cant believe you think this forum is only good for speculation and assumptions.



Perhaps I worded that wrong; it can only generate speculation and assumption - there are no facts, only what "someone said" (sometimes verified by "what someone else said").

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I actually try to learn from hard cold facts and the opinion of people who have far greater experience than me.



I challenge you on the first, agree with you on the second. "Hard cold facts?" How do you know? You can only measure what you read on here in probability, its rare we get a truly hard, cold fact (just ask Nick how often he goes back and edits details on the list...). On the other hand reputation and experience bear a lot of weight here, and opinion is a valid & educational currency.

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you just need to be able to sift through the BS and get to the real info.



Agreed - although your subjectivity colours your results.
"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

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Sorry for not saying this sooner but, my heartfelt condolences to the Hungarian jumpers their friends and family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That's my only apology in this thread.

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This is one reason why it's called the dorkzone. I always regret posting here...



I agree to some extent, you have to filter through a fair amount of useless shite on this forum to get some useful information BUT that's the nature of the beast. This is an internet forum not a news service!! This is exactly what it is for; speculation, opinions, discussion, information. It's all part of a process.

I personally think this thread has been very useful, the speculation at the start has prompted a quick release of more accurate useful information, the underlying motive throughout being concern! Concern for those involved, concern for the well being of aspiring jumpers, concern for the image and reputation of our sport, concern for the continued access to one of the most beautiful sites in the world. I think it shows a wonderful shared passion for our sport and as such I don't think apologies are altogether necessary.

That said, information gained is only useful if it is acted on....

That's all I've got to say about that.

Mike

[Also bored on an oil rig]

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"...but that's the internet - the fault isn't with the people jumping to assumptions, but that they took the information on face value to start with."

Well, true indeed. And then, that is the common complaint about media in general, reporting about base.....

"People say it again & again: please wait until the facts are posted. I disagree. The only thing a forum is good for is speculation and assumption - and I don't think this is bad in itself, in fact its often entertaining"

I totally disagree, sorry. There is nothing "entertaining" about speculation if you might hurt people's feeling which are already over sensitive after loosing a family member/friend.

Speculation leads to nothing. Factfinding will, if only people read and understand the facts. Then, and only then, if the facts can not explain 100% what happened, we can start speculation.

Condolences to the family and friends.

Ronald

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A big thank you Csaber to clarify.

You and his family have my condolescences (I was in the valley that day, we all decided to stop jumping that day to think about him).

Also thanks to the fellow jumpers staying in the valley that they didn't talk to any media. We (Swiss comunity) had the worst written article in the history of LB in the Swiss Press (BLICK, stating that the thing behind base is to pull as low as possible to get as much adrenalin as possible and more bullshit) and luckly for us, no baser was talking to them to make things worse.

As was already the case in multiple accidents at LM, not depending on the level of experience (the wall doesn't change its shape with your experience level), one might think twice before doing multi-ways, arials, etc. at any spot...

Stay safe!
/t.

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"People say it again & again: please wait until the facts are posted. I disagree. The only thing a forum is good for is speculation and assumption - and I don't think this is bad in itself, in fact its often entertaining"

I totally disagree, sorry. There is nothing "entertaining" about speculation if you might hurt people's feeling which are already over sensitive after loosing a family member/friend.



You missed a bit: "....often entertaining, its just unfortunate that in our world the subject matter is often very emotive e.g. serious injury / death"

I guess I didn't make it clear; I meant that forums in general are often entertaining, apart from in our case where the subject matter isn't... If you see what I mean...
"If you can keep your head when all around you have lost theirs, then you probably haven't understood the seriousness of the situation."
David Brent

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I thought you could translate it ...

The wuffo-journalist part in bold basically says :
He opens the parachute at the last moment. This time he wants to do it even more exhilarating. Wait a little longer :|

After that the farmer says that everytime someone goes in from that cliff unfortunately it's in his field.

Further in the text it also says that during the summer many jumpers step in his nice tall grass and damage it, and THAT MUST STOP.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Maybe someone can translate?



Before people start firing again I'll first ask if anybody is actually interested in seeing the complete translation of the article? (I can tell you that it is not very nice)

Piifish did summarize it pretty well without mentioning the real upsetting stuff.

Let me know.

J.

www.vandrunen.ch

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condolences to the jumpers family and friends.

i must say that these fatality posts are starting to get to me.

i really hope i'll be able to go back and jump the valley this summer. really really hope it doesnt get shut down. that place is a paradise and my favorite place to stay and jump that i have been so far! lets be careful guys!

-grundleson

Dont die!

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