luv2fly

Feral you stupid Kunt...I sent you two letters in the last couple months. After the first one, you sent me an EMPTY envelope - WTF? Then i sent you a book (93 pages - the most hit post on this lame site) from dz.com of why Nick Di Gio pulled the list from the world...I still can't figure out why he caved to a few whiners...but whatever. Go inject some prison smack in your ass and wait for some more amusing material from swallow and I... I thought you were getting out next year??? JJ

Everyone of those jumpers on the list we can't see anymore was special. It's been stated before and probably will be again...The problem with the list not being available to the general public, in a fashion that makes BASE seem dangerous, is that all the "young jumpers" that are researching or on the fence - thinking about getting into BASE - whether skydivers or wanna be BASErs will not be deterred by it, scarred by it, or scared by it... These are likely the types that shouldn't be in the sport in the first place. I know a number of people that have decided to NOT get into BASE because of it's inherent danger...triggered by all the dead and permanently injured people. The BFL kept that "image" of BASE alive. One of the major problems with human beings is that they forget easily. IMHO - In a couple years a whole slew of new jumpers will be coming on the scene - as they do - and all the ones that didn't get a chance to read the BFL will be hucking off without hesitation and there will be more injuries and fatalities because of it. Nick, you may have been depressed by it and just about at the end of your rope...and it was your choice, but it really sucks that a few nay sayers beat you down - especially the immature one that nobody believes should be jumping anyway...

Sucks for Jimmy Hall's friends and loved ones...never met him but sounds like a stand up guy. To those that know him...I'm deeply sorry for your loss... As a member of the Anexx club... Nick...if you quit the list...I would be HONERED to take it over man. I'm totally stoked that I had my years in BASE and will eventually be on that list - just like we ALL will be. I haven't picked out my picture yet though... I used the list as an instructional tool for many of my students...and they never objected or thought it was a bad idea to read the list - it's an excellent edu tool and when me and my students would be driving to a site or hanging around...I would pull out some printed copies and we would talk about how or why each death happened - SO WE WOULD NOT REPEAT IT!!! After we would read the list...I would whip out my death videos - explaining the context, etc. Eventually I became known as the "DEATH MONGER" - which I held with pride... See folks, I don't want to lose friends, and this is a great tool to STOP that from happening. If you are afraid of the list, don't like the list, etc...you should not BASE jump...and you should probably vote for bush...because you are acting weak and you got your blinders on. If you don't like the list...don't read it! I think it's the best collection of memories of those that died - for edu and to pay them respect. IMHO, there are too many BASErs that are afraid of dying, afraid of the list, or don't want to talk about death - but hey folks...death is part of life! Embrace death...it's coming. Losing friends sucks I know...but the list should stay!!! BSBD! JJ

Word to the wise brother Rick! I'm not sure what your point is...but you're damn right! "They" may read us...but they will never figure us out. Even though I retired from BASE years ago...unless they BASE...they will never know what it means. It's useless man...you can't tell someone what BASE is...you have to live it! Respect. JJ BASE #573

Ralph...in response to the following quote... >People were Proximity flying as you call it way before sub-terminal was released They were doing it before Rob miss judged the ledge in Norway> I'm pretty sure you're talking about Rob Tompkins...and knowing intimately the circumstances surrounding his final jump...all I have to say is: The only thing Rob Tompkins was flying proximal to was his EGO before he POUNDED into the talus. In 2003, Rob and I both had a summer of proximal flying from the cliffs of Norway...along with Espon, Bjorn Magna, Paul Fortune, Jeb Corliss, Yuri Kuznetsov, etc. Proximal flying has been around...it just keeps getting more and more advanced with skill and equipment improvements. Luigi killed it on the Christ jump! If only DW would have kept flying after touching the rail at Royal Gorge... JJ

The truth is that I didn't review the whole thread before posting that. I know we've talked about that stuff before somewhere, but since I have to read every damn thing posted on this board, it sometimes blurs together. Come on TOM!! Get it together. You're a man of truth! BASE jumpers across the globe hinge on your every word! Just f$#cking with you... BR (Anne and I) considered a similar design - putting the vents on the crown of a PC - but thought it would cost way too much to manufacture - nobody would want to spend that kind of money on a PC (I guess we were wrong!)...and didn't really see a benefit to match the cost. Besides, IT COULD NEVER MATCH THE SUPERIORITY OF F111!!! Think of F111 as putting millions of tiny little vents spread evenly - the utimate material to dampen the forces that cause oscillation. How else do I say it? Although I guess it doesn't look as cool as the Toxic...and that's what BASE is to a large part of the community - looking cool! But, being dead or injured doesn't look or feel very good now does it? But, the resulting scars could attract chicks...so what do I know? JJ

People....listen to Uncle Potato Head... JJ

One thing that can bring ZP up to the standard of F-111 in this regard (point of initial inflation relative to jumper/pack tray) is the direction of the jumpers pitch. If you are pitching directly upward (as popularized by DW and RS for ultra low freefalls) at exit, your ZP PC will inflate in the same position as an F-111 PC (directly over your back). The F-111 is still better "vented" (since it's essentially equally vented across it's entire surface) than the ZP, and can dampen further oscillations better, but that's not terribly important because, assuming good (symmetric) attachment, further oscillation is unlikely (and of small magnitude if it does occur). well...go study a few thousand jumps where, regardless of pitch direction, a ZP PC - vented or not - will just randomly oscillate! It's crazy...like they have a mind of their own! Any turbulent air that hits the "bottom skin" of ZP material will cause a reaction...and roughly 3 times out of 10 it's not benefical - especially when the canopy deploys the during the oscillation - this is why sub-term and an oscillating PC can be very "counter-intention" to the direction of the opening. Tom, as for the pie slices on a PC, I'm referring to using different material (colors) on quarters of a PC. The different quarters have differnt block and bias integrity as you say above. This difference in the quarters or "pie slice" (if this is what you mean) will cause varying levels of reaction to turbulence when it hits the "botton skin" of a PC - causing oscillation... In my experience anyway... Good luck folks and be careful! JJ

I've acutally moved on from BASE...but I did a lot of research in collaboration with BR (namely Annie) on the PC matter...so I can't say I've done back to back research using Toxic and non-toxic PCs. We did however toy with the idea of a wider circular vent -vent being less than 1 inch in width but about 8 inches round - but decided the benefit would not be worth the work - i.e. nobody would buy a $200 dollar pc. BUT, we came back to another idea - went retro - F111! I like to say...think of it as the most advanced PC available today - it has millions of perfectly spaced micro-scopic vents, greatly reducing the forces that cause oscillation! I would just like to add that F111 PCs are most effective on sub-term slider up jumps... Pie slices on any PC is NOT a good idea altho it looks cewl! And finally, yes...you can pull lower using a ZP PC>>>but only a fraction of a second - which may seem like a loooong time when you are quickly meeting the ground! Ground rush rules!!! Be safe, be smart - jump F111!!! JJ

The micro-second longer it takes for a F111 PC to inflate is actually benefical to the jumper - because the PC will fully inflate overdead and it offers longer groundrush!!! Quicker inflation is actually counter productive for the jumper - i.e. it begins pulling the canopy at an unfavorable angle. And yes, using differnt halves or quarters of material for a PC (regardless of texture - ZP, F11, Balloon ZP, denim, silk, etc) will impose varying degrees of integrity and consistency and thus contribute to varying degrees of outcomes unfavorable to the user - i.e. oscillation! Although Marty makes some beautiful and elaborate BASE equipment...$175 for a PC is crazy! Unless you're jeb corliss...paying that kind of dough will take away from your precious travel funds. Is the PC encrusted with diamonds...? JJ

Ralph - Do yourself a favor...go get F111 PC's!!! JJ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB1tEFTsC6Q JJ

TO answer your questions BASEjumper I had about 150 jumps on a 36" F111 - mostly terminal and it still worked fine...(but I gave it to someone when I sold him a canopy - and he continued to use it - not sure how many jumps tho). I have used F111 (not clapped out) on 160' freefall jumps with no noticeable problems or differences. But yes, F111 when exposed to water and more then 100 jumps will degrade to the point where I wouldn't want to personally use one but wouldn't mind if you did...clearly for testing purposes only tho... I would ALWAYS use F111 on sub-terminal and terminal jumps. Sometimes I used ZP on slider down mostly because I don't think in no wind conditions (what I mostly liked to jump in) there was clearly not a difference between F111 and ZP. I can't stress this enough! Use F111 - especially for sub-terminal slider up! That is, if you want to live injury/fatality free... Hope this helps! JJ

GIVE IT UP TO GOD!!! The PC Oscillation problem must be solved to reduce the injury and death we see in BASE. I've put lots of energy into this problem. Given that I have not BASEd in 3 years 4 months..since losing my friend DW at RG in 2003. I may be off a bit in my explanation so please correct me if you see a mistake in my understanding here...but it amuses me that nothing has advanced in this area in years! And it keeps coming back as a problem...Every so often I say my .02 cents again and then it goes away until some new observation comes from someone different... To explain where I'm coming from...I'll start at the beginning (as far as I can remember it). Anne Helliwell and Todd Shoebothom from BR were the first to introduce me to the idea of production and use of F111 PCs in BASE. I used the F111 for a couple years and later discarded it as not as "bullet proof" as ZP. I got some PC insight from SpACE whilst hanging out in Norway but still did not understand the whole concept. Then came the vented ZP and this supposedly was the "Godsend" of PC safety...and everyone tried to grab a bit of the market share of the ultimate PC - a vented ZP. BUT, I began to see this as a micromental improvement over regular ZP because the damn PC was still oscillating and killing. It was at this point that Anne and I looked for an explanation to the problem and we searched for a solution. As soon as a ZP PC reached full bridle stretch in non-terminal jumps (mostly sub-terminal slider up), it was more likely to meet the air with a reaction to the action and begin the oscillation. We tested and researched the vented ZP PC on balloon drops with a weight to replicate a 4 second delay and the results were as expected. The vented ZP PC was a hoax...a great way to market a "revolutionary idea." But, without the desired outcome - a significant reduction in oscillation. It was only a minor one - maybe 10% - but not enough testing was done. Anne did great camera work in Malaysia - recording more than 800 jumps made over 2 years. From this work we saw that of my 23 jumps in 2002/2003, I did not have one PC oscillation beyond about 5 degrees from center while the regular ZP PC and vented ZP PC saw about a 20% chance of severe oscillation leading to offheadings - sometimes up to 45 degrees - swirling around and around. This convinced me that F111 was the true "Godsend" - whatever that means - and ZP PCs with or without vents was a hoax. Think of a F111 PC as a PC with thousands of vents distributed equally. That's the best way to look at it and it's truly the best way to eliminate offheading openings attributed to PC action (with current technology). That is all. Be smart and live longer without injury - stop using a ZP PC for subterminal slider up jumping! Good luck! JJ

yes yes and yes... Annie H is one of the friendliest and most positive women I have ever met...and her family back in the land of the long white cloud are top notch people! Great people come from great people... That chicken will always be one of my best friends! She looked after me for years...and that AZ trip was absolutely one for the memory banks - Mrs. Jarvis' strapping young lad... My favorite was the giant Christmas tree stack at midnight! JJ