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SullyFlyer

Iowa Skydivers Drunk and Rude @ Twin Falls Outback

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I *have* been drinking !

But isn't one of things that BASE teaches you is to desensitize(sp) ? Isn't going in a consequence we have all thought of on a jump ? Why get so terrified when it does happen ? Perhaps if you are not ready to accept the reality you are not ready to jump ?

P.S. But perhaps I am just wrong ...
P.P.S. I don't mean any disrespect to the deseased jumpers. I am just saying that I felt that at BD some people walked down because the event shook them up, while others walked down because of respect... Those 2 are very different.
P.P.P.S. Nor am I calling anybody a pussy.

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"welcome packets that inform or list the expectations."

ohp i found it!

number 4 is the issue in discussion if you want to skip down to it.

Idaho Bridge

1) Call the Sheriff dispatch before the start of every jumping day (+1 208 735-1911)

The Sheriff has asked that we call the dispatch at the beginning of any day when there are jumpers on the bridge. This is so that the dispatch operator can calm anyone who calls in the emergency number to report a suicide jumper, and explain that BASE is normal and accepted here. If we do not call, the Sheriff has to send a patrol car to investigate whenever jumpers are reported at the bridge.


2) Please do not stand on top of the handrail.

The transportation department, which owns the bridge, has asked that jumpers not stand on top of the handrail because it distracts motorists, and they are concerned that it may cause motor vehicle accidents on the bridge. The bridge is the main entry to town from the interstate, and accidents on the bridge back traffic up all the way through town.


3) When using planks/platforms, remove them when not jumping.

If you place a plank or exit platform, please remove it when your party is not physically present at the bridge (either packing at the visitor center or in the park at the bottom, or jumping, hiking, or riding out). If you leave the bridge for any reason (even to get lunch or to pack at a hotel), please remove launch platforms until you return. Always remove platforms at the end of every jumping day.


4) Respect the local people.

Twin Falls is a small, rural, conservative, American community. Be aware that nudity, excessive profanity, drug use, or excessive drinking will give jumpers a bad reputation here. Beer in public is acceptable, so coolers in the park are no problem. Music, so long as it's not overly explicit, has also never been a problem.


5) For boat service call Don Mayes (+1 208 731-6448)

Not really a jumping guideline, but so many people ask for Don's number that I'll include it here. Don also has brochures and business cards at the visitor center at the top of the bridge.

6) BASE jumper discounts

BASE jumper discounts are available at many area businesses. Be sure to check if you can get one for hotel rooms and meals. Outback (at the top of the bridge, behind the visitor center) offers 2 for 1 drink specials for BASE jumpers all day, and IHOP (at the top, on the other side of Blue Lakes) has a 15% discount for jumpers. Patronizing local businesses and letting them know that you are a jumper makes people aware of the business that jumpers bring to town.
word to your mother,
RJ$$
BASE 1117

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...welcome packets that inform or list the expectations. I've never been to TF...



Have a look at the sticky at the top of this forum. Check out the post called "Idaho Bridge". Point number 4 is fairly relevant to this discussion. Also, have a look here and here. The expectations are pretty clearly laid out in some very public places. It's not Bill's fault if people haven't bothered to look and read them.



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...but other than Woody's is there a Skydiver/BASE restaurant close to the bridge so that jumpers can burn off their adrenaline?



There's a very BASE friendly restaurant/bar right at the top of the bridge. It's called The Outback.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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Your comments give the perception that you have become very desensitized to death.



do you realize:
-this is the 2nd fatality THIS YEAR at TF?
-earlier this year, another jumper almost died
-the recent fatality was NOT the first to die because of tying off his pc
-the BD fatality affected far more people, but was handled much differently by family/friends
-some people that have posted here live in TF and must mend relationships after each and every tragic event. they have been fighting a backlash
-some people that have posted here get the unfortunate task of reviewing the photos/video to determine why the tragedy occured
-some people that have posted here have carried out seriously hurt jumpers
-some people that have posted here have BEEN seriously injured jumpers

-Skydivers may have trouble with death or injury
-BASE jumpers are far too familiar with death or injury

-the recent fatality ignored "the list" and continued to practice a known hazardous technique
-friends of the deceased ignored established and posted guidelines regarding conduct in TF

show some respect if you wish to receive it...
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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I don't get it.
How do you know that it happend because of tying his pilot with a pull up.
I don't know what happend, I live far away, but according to BASE BOB's post:
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To follow up with Tom's post. I did speak with numerous jumpers who witnessed the jump from below. They state that he front floated (facing bridge) the exit and pulled after he passed the steel. They're convinced that the PC did inflate immediately and wrapped around his ankle (leg). They state that he tried to "kick" off the PC until they lost sight of him behind the trees. When they got to the deceased jumper they noticed his sock and pant leg was severly torn and that the shoe was missing.


So why are so many beliving that it was because of a pull up???
Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

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So why are so many beliving that it was because of a pull up???

because of Tom's post on his analysis of the video/pictures
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I helped the Sheriff's office with the gear and accident analysis today, and had a chance to look at some 35mm photos shot by a tourist on the overlook.

From viewing the photos, my conclusion is that there was a restrictive device of some kind tied around the pilot chute.

The PC is clearly in a fully extended position (at bridle stretch, with mesh fully extended) but with the ZP gathered in a tight bundle, and can be seen towing behind the jumper in this position in two photos shot in sequence, with around 100 feet of freefall between them. Under digital enhancement, a bit of orange color can be seen trailing beside the black ZP (the pull up cord that the jumper used repacking his PC at exit was orange).

I'll try to get copies of the photos from the sheriff's investigator, and post (scaled down to attachment size) copies here.

posted on the incident forum and on the other thread here on the BASE forum
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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Ok, but I think there are 2 opinions here.
One is what the jumpers said standing below the bridge:
Quote

They're convinced that the PC did inflate immediately and wrapped around his ankle (leg)


and the other is what Tom can see in the pictures taken by a tourist:
Quote

From viewing the photos, my conclusion is that there was a restrictive device of some kind tied around the pilot chute.


I would be very interested in hearing a first hand witness raport.
But this belongs probably in the fatality thread...
Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

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Ok, but I think there are 2 opinions here.
One is what the jumpers said standing below the bridge:....

and the other is what Tom can see in the pictures taken by a tourist:



It has been my experience in other areas of aviation that solid video/stills evidence is always better than eyewitness reports - whether from laymen or experts. The mind, especially in cases where everything plays out in 4 or 5 seconds, is notoriously unreliable at telling people what they actually saw.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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This has absolutely nothing to do with repect or lack of it toward the jumpers friends or family.It has to do with immaturity of a group of people and lack of repect toward the people in that restaurant.People mourn death everyday without offending everyone around them.I would suggest these people take a step away from BASE and skydiving until they learn to do the same or the next time someone they know goes in they go to the grocery store,buy some burgers and beer and take the mourning to a private place.I have a feeling that if they were in a private place they would have been a little more subdued as it has been my experiance in these situations people act different in public than they do in private.I have mourned the loss of many of friends without making an ass out of myself in public.
As for timing,I bet the family was getting calls from the media before there was ever a name posted here.

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I don't get it.
How do you know that it happend because of tying his pilot with a pull up.
.
.
.
So why are so many beliving that it was because of a pull up???



per Tom's photo/video analysis:
Quote


From viewing the photos, my conclusion is that there was a restrictive device of some kind tied around the pilot chute.

The PC is clearly in a fully extended position (at bridle stretch, with mesh fully extended) but with the ZP gathered in a tight bundle, and can be seen towing behind the jumper in this position in two photos shot in sequence, with around 100 feet of freefall between them. Under digital enhancement, a bit of orange color can be seen trailing beside the black ZP (the pull up cord that the jumper used repacking his PC at exit was orange).



so the top skin of the pc appeared restricted. the bottom skin mesh was not.

the people on the bottom might have seen the mesh, and assumed the pc was NOT restricted. being friends, they might have seen what they want to see...

p.s.
Tom, thanks for the review. I wish it had not been necessary. you have had to perform way too many this year. I hope next year will be better!
DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

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the people on the bottom might have seen the mesh, and assumed the pc was NOT restricted.



This is a valid point. Does anybody know if anybody saw the accident from the top?
Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

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the people on the bottom might have seen the mesh, and assumed the pc was NOT restricted.



This is a valid point. Does anybody know if anybody saw the accident from the top?



Yes. Two jumpers were at the top. One jumper on the top reported that the pilot chute looked "too small" and "about the size of a fist." The other reported that it looked like the PC was fully inflated.

It is also possible that the PC was constricted when pitched, then wrapped the ankle later in the freefall. The constrictor may have popped off after the wrap, so people at the bottom saw impact with a fully inflated (but entangled) PC, while people at the top saw a constricted PC. The last photo showing a constricted PC (which is the last freefall photo) still shows the jumper a couple of hundred feet in the air. There was plenty of time for more developments in free fall.
-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

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This sort of conduct will continue to occur



No it won't! If this sort of conduct continues we will not be invited to jump the bridge or hang out at the Outback.

If your profile is correct, you have 90 jumps, don't BASE jump, and from your post have never even been to TF. I think you are operating on more than a little misinterpretation.

I realize you and friends lost someone maybe the first time jumping. It shakes you up and makes you question everything. BUT it does not give one permission or excuse for disrespecting others, jumpers or not!

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My posts are made with much respect to the overall issue of conduct in TF. I agree that the conduct in a family restaurant is not appropriate. It is an issue that needs addressed but it will not be resolved by debating it through threads. Your point is clear. One of my points is suggesting to be even more proactive about the situation if it is as urgent as you state. In life there are only two things a person has control over, what you say and what you do. Outside of that a person has to learn how to work WITH the situation in order to get it under control. Forcing and demanding doesn't solve anything and it only makes it worse. I'm aware that information has been created already and protocols are set. If that's not getting the message across well enough, take it to the next level. Print off the information and great the jumpers at the bridge itself and verbally talk to them. My suggestions are just examples of brainstorming. I am by no means trying to imply that they are good ideas or feasible ideas. I'm just trying to instigate (sp) a basis for more effective resolutions to the matter at hand while remaining compassionate to all involved. Seek to understand before trying to be understood.

I am very young to the sport and very in love with it. The points I am trying to make do not represent the technicle skills of BASE jumping. So please don't downplay my input based on my experience level.

To reiterate the most important point in my original post, our friend passed and another individual announces it before close family and friends learned of the event. This IS a fact. A couple days grace would have been much more sufficient and labeling Iowa certainly was unnecessary to make your valid points. My plea is to the overall skydiving/BASE family...learn from the bad timeing of the original post and how it was labeled. All of us in Iowa and Nebraska know exactly who was there. Should any friend or family member have found out through dropzone.com is something I wouldn't want for anyone...ever.
Life is short. Live, laugh, love often!

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Mikki,
What's up bro? Just to clarify, the information that I posted previously was another opinion offered by jumpers at the bridge. Tom had posted what he knew at the time from info he gained from speaking with jumpers on the bridge at the time of the incident. However, he had left and did not have the opportunity to speak with the jumpers who saw it from below ( these jumpers were friends with the deceased and pulled him from the water). They both informed me at separate times that they saw the PC inflated and wrapped around his ankle. One jumper stated that he didn't see the pitch but looked up directly after and saw a inflated PC wrapped around his ankle. The other jumper stated that he saw him pitch and the PC inflated and went right around his ankle. They both said the deceased jumper dragged the PC with him into the water. When they found him his shoe was missing and his pant leg and sock were severely torn. The bridle was still tightly wrapped around his leg. There was no packing aid found around or near the PC. These guys also informed me that this jumper was anal about making sure his pull up cord was accounted for during his jumps. The point of these postings is to give jumpers as many opinions as to what happened from as many vantage points as possible. This information may change over time as different details of the incident come to light. As we (all jumpers) view these details hopefully we can come up with a group consensus as to what led to this fatality and learn from it.

Jamie

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Who the fuck cares? It was too soon regardless. In my opinion and many others' opinion. Why is it that some people here have to argue about every little detail instead of focusing on the actual topic?

The actual topic should have been something along the lines of: "Repecting BASE Sites".

Not a direct attack on Iowa skydivers less than 24 hours after their best friend's death. That was inappropriate.

I've held off posting on this thread due to emotions regarding this situation, but this is getting way too ridiculous. Seriously people, get a fucking life.

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Tom posted the incident report Nov 3rd at 7:10pm. This was done to possibly save lives of other jumpers who were about to make a jump with a pullup chord tied around their PC. For the most part incidents in BASE, and skydiving, for that matter need to be reported quickly to prevent similar accidents.

Sully did not post until Nov 4th at 8:57pm. However, in case you haven't noticed from reading this thread, this bridge is quite valuable to us and anything that jeopardizes it or our acceptance in that community needs to be dealt with immediately.

As for your inexperience with BASE and possible inexperience with dealing with friend's death your assumptions about how to deal with the event may be incorrect.

I hope in this situation you realize there are issues you don't understand. No criticism, it's just something you don't know you don't know.

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Too soon?? I'm sure there will always be someone to say it's too soon to identify our missteps and correct them, but I disagree.

And I don't buy the whole mourning bit either. "Well, yes, I did rob that bank, sir, BUT I'm mourning for my friend so that makes it okay."
:S
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

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Hey there

Did anyone have a chance (jumpers, family, friends or police) to check the deceased pockets. This would pretty much confirm whether he removed the pull-up prior to jumping. If he did, it's on him somewhere, it simply has to be. If he didn't and did leave it on the pilot chute and it came off during freefall, you'll find it down wind or down stream.

Of course this won't change what's happened, but the facts being revealed might mean the difference to someone else.

ian

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What exactly is done during an EFS (eat fuck skydive) toast that offends people?


The word "fuck" is used, loud and proud. Other words that are seen in small, conservative, rural towns as being offensive can also be used.

Since it's their town, and their bridge, recognizing this is good.

Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

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