Clair 0 #101 August 24, 2005 i am planing on skydiving with in a few months. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #102 August 24, 2005 this shit is hilarious -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clair 0 #103 August 24, 2005 i wish all of you the best luck with BASE jumping. see ya around. Clair nicholas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #104 August 24, 2005 Clair, congratulations on your jump. I'm glad you had fun and landed healthy. please stay that way (I'll say that to ANY jumper...). there have been many excellent posts on this thread. thanks to all. keep in mind that the posters feel passionately about this sport. a sport that is dangerous and can involve questionable legal activity. skydiving sits on more solid legal ground, but most dz's won't let minors jump. there is a reason. something bad can happen to ALL of us on every jump. but any incident involving you will hurt this sport quite disproportionately. realize you're not the only one to love BASE jumping. and be thankful so many "strangers" care about you... DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #105 August 24, 2005 Quoteafter repeating everything jimmy told in my head me about a million times on the way up to the tower i jumped. Yes there are severe injuries that can occur when BASE jumping, smart girl for realizing this... Seems you're already setting yourself up to find out what they are for yourself. A tower?? Please, share details! _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankj23 0 #106 August 24, 2005 Why should anybody think that "Clair" is really Clair? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #107 August 24, 2005 hey you too!! -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wwarped 0 #108 August 24, 2005 QuoteWow, I've waiting for good reason to post about this... uh, why? you are articulate and appear to be intelligent. you create quite popular videos. and I'm betting you knew that your comment would stir up many critical replies. so, again, why post it? what good does it serve? do you like being viewed negatively? BASE jumpers learn quickly that they might break laws. normally, they also learn to keep it to themselves. so why publicize this training? looking for more customers? DON'T PANIC The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #109 August 24, 2005 It's the big Power tower we were winded out on.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 0 #110 August 24, 2005 Quoteso, again, why post it? what good does it serve? Any publicity is good publicity. It will sell videos.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #111 August 24, 2005 QuoteAny publicity is good publicity. It will sell videos. It also sells sports drinks. Except to me... - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RhondaLea 3 #112 August 25, 2005 QuoteAny publicity is good publicity. It will sell videos. When Jimmy first posted (before Tom split the thread), I thought it was a joke. Then, as the flurry began, I took it for granted that he'd really done this. Now I'm starting to wonder if, in fact, he's not just trolling. Is there anyone who can corroborate his story? rlIf you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base736 0 #113 August 25, 2005 Aren't you watching? I think Clair's been corroborating like crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #114 August 25, 2005 BTW, Casey Hoover was nine years old when he made his BASE jump, not twelve like I wrote . . . And I'm with r/l and think we are getting yanked around by the yonkels here. But, I'll say this much; in trying to come up with arguments against this I keep hitting walls of my own making . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyh 0 #115 August 25, 2005 Ok, as far as I'm concerned this topic has about run its course,so now (deep breath) let me try to explain myself: Motivation. I believe every act has multiple motivating factors. This is no exception. 1) to stir up shit and get publicity...Absolutely. When Clair first emailed me she had already been denied by more than one BASE jumper, one of whom is a former student of mine who I taought when no one else would because he only had 75 skydives. That was three years ago and now he has 4 times as many BASE jumps as me and only 25 more skydives. I almost said no to Clair, but then isaid to myself, just think of the shit this will stir up among the "community." On some level I just wanted to see what you all would think. 2) to sell more videos...No fucking way. I know it seems like I think any publicity is good publicity and that I will therefore sell more videos. What like 850 instead of 750? Whatever. There is no lucrative market for my videos. I would have to sell 4,000 before I could even think about making a living doing it. That's not gonna happen. Standard Issue was made for three people: myself, Aussie Pete, and Mike Knight. I had one mini-dv copy of it, and I broke two VCRs making dubs one at a time for ten bucks because people thought it was fun to watch. Last year I made RADIX and it was made for about ten people. But I had a bunch of dvd's duplicated just in case other people wanted a copy. I still have 750 copies sitting in my locker. Keen 'N Able will be the same. I'm making it for myself, my friends, and those who will want to watch it and give me twenty bucks for my trouble. I doubt teaching Clair to Base jump wil help me sell 3,350 copies of a video, although it w be the video "that's got that 16 year old girl in it." 3) because believe it or not this where the sport of BASE jumping is headed...yup. Bet you didn't know that I can see the future. In the future (base jumping does have a future after all) Skydiving will be a complimentary aspect to one's progression in BASE jumping, not a categorical prerequisite. The owner of the dropzone I work at was the first DZO in history to put students under ram air canopies. He caught heaps and heaps and heaps of shit from the skydiving community at the time because he was "absolutely going to kill his students." Now, show me a dropzone that puts its students out of the plane under rounds. skydiving and BASE jumping are sports that can lead to injury or death at any time under perfect conditions for no apparent reason at all. We allow 16 year olds to do tandems at our dropzone with parent's consent and BIll Booth's waiver video says "there will not now or at any time be a perfect parachute, a perfect plane, a perfect skydiving instructor, or for that matter a perfect student." 16 year olds and their parents sign that waiver every day at the dz cuz the damn kids want to skydive. As far as the future of BASE jumping is concerned, hear me now and believe me later, there will be a day when it is a comonly accepted fact that skydivng is a neccessary aspect of learning all the skills required to safely make the gambit of available BASE jumps, but is not, however, an absolute prerequisite to getting started. 4) because I want to test the above theory. Yup. I just wanna see if what I just said is true. 5) because of all the reasons many of you have accused me of. Maybe, I don't know. You all might be right. And I am fully aware of the fact that every single one of you might have the blessed opportunity to tell me "I told you so." edit to remove references to and threats of physical violence ~TA later, jimmy p.s. I truly believe Clair will remain unhurt and that many of you will have the opportunity to BASE jump or skydive with her in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterk 0 #116 August 25, 2005 Seriously Jimmy, do you have any idea how many jumps people didn't do because they were anxiously waiting to write something in response to you? Tar and feather him if you must, just grow some balls and do it instead of just threatening it.--------------- Peter BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #117 August 25, 2005 Jimmy ... I hope to meet you one day and sit down and drink a beer or two with you. I enjoy your work and you made me happy one day when you saw some of my work and complimented it as well. I think with careful mentoring Clair could be fine and turn into a bad ass skychick. If Clair was to be trained in Idaho, then my canopy control concerns for her aren't huge. She'll likely even get better canopy control coaching there with you privately that with some AFF guy. But without this opportunity, I don't think hucking oneself off of a bandit fixed object (at night?) with 1 parachute ride under her belt such a smart thing to do both for her and for the sport. I've always thought that good canopy control was key in BASE. Was I mistaken here? Take her to the bridge, train her there (if she's on the level with her parental units). But she needs to learn how to fly her canopy before she does other stuff. You know this ... you know more about BASE than I do ... and I know this. Oh I sure hope Clair grows up to skydive as well as BASE. I see too many new BASE jumpers trivialize the benefits of skydiving. Sure BASE and skydiving are not the same, but being current with one's skydiving can never be a bad thing for one's BASE. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #118 August 25, 2005 >>just grow some balls<< Oh, if wishing made it so . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #119 August 25, 2005 QuoteWhen Jimmy first posted (before Tom split the thread), I thought it was a joke. Then, as the flurry began, I took it for granted that he'd really done this. Now I'm starting to wonder if, in fact, he's not just trolling. Is there anyone who can corroborate his story? I don't BASE jump but I have been following this thread and have been doubting it from the start. And also I have been surprised by how many big names on this forum are buying it. I could be wrong, but something about the whole thing seems sketchy...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fgersch 0 #120 August 25, 2005 An angle I haven't seen brought up yet.. There is nothing to stop Claire doing any one of a million dangerous stupid ill thought out things. Nothing short of her parents locking in her room for another couple of years any way. So anyway although I still agree with a lot of the caveats raised by people and I personally wouldn't want to be mixed up in this situation. Isn't one positive side to this, that clair is being educated and not doing this on her own!! There's nothing to stop her being out there doing it anyway. Except maybe not having a rig!!!! I recall when I was 11 I used to visit a sand quarry with my mates, we would "BASE" of the cliffs a couple of stories high without a parachute, hit a rolling bank of sand and slide/tumble the rest of the way down. Sure our parents would have freaked if they'd seen it but they didn't, it still happened .. frequently. Kids if they want to WILL find some kind of trouble to be in ... Quotehttps://www.burblesoftware.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #121 August 25, 2005 QuoteI am fully aware of the fact that every single one of you might have the blessed opportunity to tell me "I told you so." For Clair's sake I sincerely hope I never have to. QuoteYou may or may not know the story about the skydiver who pulled a gun on me...He had to have both his front teeth replaced after I beat him in the face with his own gun. Believe it or not, I actually like that one. Beating a guy with his own gun has a hell of a lot more style than simply shooting him with it. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TVPB 0 #122 August 25, 2005 I wonder Jimmy?? If you partner was depressed and wanted to commit suicide, you would just let it happen and/or support that person? What if they wanted to make wild passionate love to a dead monkey whilst you watched? You'd probably say, hey, give it a go, who am I to discourage your individual freedom. Hey, what if they wanted to just kill somone??? So I'm guessing that you TOTALLY support terrorism too. Come on Jimmy, they just want peace for their people and to be considered as hero's. Who has the right to stop them. Now drink driving, that's heaps of fun. Don't worry about the potential innocent victims. What about. . . . . . . . . . .? <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> I also wonder Jimmy - you have a survivor from a statistical pool of ONE person. And you think that validates your argument or proves your point? What if one person dies BASE jumping because they have no prior skill development program/experience (this has happened!!!!!!!). What does that prove to you? We already know that people have BASE jumped before they have skydived. YOU obviously don't know ANYTHING about the sport or its history if you are trying to prove something that we already know has happend but his just plain idiotic. My suggestion, leave science to other people who know how to systematically develop and implement thorough and reliable testing regimes. <<<<<<>>>>>>>> Aaaahhhh the journey of discovery and progression and development. After all, its worth every risk isn't it. Lets not worry about the potential of our experiment failing and robbing a persons family of their loved one. Lets not worry about potentially depriving this young person with so much zest for life the opportunity to live it for a long time and contribute something positive to this world. After all, you are just doing what the hell makes you feel good. That's it buddy. Your arse is satisfied. Congratulations on your fabulous, selfless, contribution to the sport. p.s. Personally, under highly specific circumstances, I am not opposed to BASE jumps first or younger people participating. But each person has to be judged on their merits. But considering the population as a whole, the combo you mention (young / no experience) is very dangerous for the average person and should not be condoned on a general level. Just my opinon. p.s..s edumacated - is that a word Tom A??? edit to remove personal attacks, and references to and threats of physical violence ~TA Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites vinginit 0 #123 August 25, 2005 Your choice to participate in a sport so intensely gratifying was personal – same as most of us. When we choose to play, we face death - reality. Here’s a suggestion - instead of just talking to instructors about dealing with students jumping without radios, try spending a little more time talking to the families of our fellow BASE friends that no longer exist in human form due to BASE accidents - reality. To make the choice of teaching a child, “past puberty”, about a sport that has little, if any, room for error seems to hold some other sort of motivation rather than just the thrill of training a new rabbit. Why is there such a damn rush to teach her? Don’t burn the sport Jimmy. Maybe, someday you’ll be really famous with your so called “motivational factors” that f**cked it up for the rest of us. I would think you are probably talented enough to pursue your teaching in a more honorable style. Take deeper hits Jimmy……DEEEEEEEper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyglider 0 #124 August 25, 2005 I guess this is what makes the world keep turning – a desire for something that feels good and the fruition of that desire and more importantly – our freedom to have that which we desire. She has someone encouraging her while teaching her to BASE when other experienced BASE jumpers wouldn't have dared even with permission. He gets whatever he gets from giving someone their first experiences with BASE jumping. He likes different and new stuff. Maybe for him this is the next level. In a way, they probably are at the same level in their desire and excitement to keep jumping together regardless of what anyone thinks. Honestly, most locals at the PC likely think that think this is actually exciting and completely harmless, and they are the ones who know him best. If you want to BASE, and you’re in the area, you’ll most likely be directed to the same person. A lot of people do have respect for him. He doesn’t go out searching for students. They come to him. Some get his time and some don’t – Tis the season for all the employees there to be working long hours at a very busy dz while interacting with a very special boss and to go out in the wee hours to take a newbie into a place that renders them both elated, must mean there’s something worth it all to keep him dedicated and motivated to put himself out there with her when he could be someplace else. The part about their ages and ethics…who is anyone to judge their “guilt” or “innocence” besides their own selves and her parents? It looks bad to some, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will go that way. Jimmy is a good guy who is offering Clair her dream to BASE. Each person is allowed their own standards to live by as we properly should be. Choices and consequences. Risk and reward. Old and young. Life and Death. What was, what is, what could be, what will be…..what’s next? Good luck guys. I hope this works out well for everyone (Jimmy, Clair, her family, etc.) involved including the BASE community at large. Stay safe and stay inspiried. p.s. Will the next video be rated PG-16? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brits17 0 #125 August 25, 2005 Jimmy, You post a good argument and I can honestly see you've put a lot of thought into it. However, several whuffo friends have asked me 'wow, can you teach me to base jump?' I giggle and say, 'get a few hundred skydives in, then we'll talk.' It’s because I don't want to see them get hurt. I don't want the responsibility considering the risk of skydiving vs. the risk of base. They have to figure this out for themselves. I've come to grips with the difference and I believe it’s large. ...I suppose we're just different minded people. I've only argued because I still don't understand. In this specific situation: -minimal parachute time -minimal reaction time -minimal body awareness time -lack of risk/reason factor (because of age and lack of experience) All these are very generalized but very important when pondered imo. C ya. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Next Page 5 of 11 0
Zennie 0 #121 August 25, 2005 QuoteI am fully aware of the fact that every single one of you might have the blessed opportunity to tell me "I told you so." For Clair's sake I sincerely hope I never have to. QuoteYou may or may not know the story about the skydiver who pulled a gun on me...He had to have both his front teeth replaced after I beat him in the face with his own gun. Believe it or not, I actually like that one. Beating a guy with his own gun has a hell of a lot more style than simply shooting him with it. - Z "Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TVPB 0 #122 August 25, 2005 I wonder Jimmy?? If you partner was depressed and wanted to commit suicide, you would just let it happen and/or support that person? What if they wanted to make wild passionate love to a dead monkey whilst you watched? You'd probably say, hey, give it a go, who am I to discourage your individual freedom. Hey, what if they wanted to just kill somone??? So I'm guessing that you TOTALLY support terrorism too. Come on Jimmy, they just want peace for their people and to be considered as hero's. Who has the right to stop them. Now drink driving, that's heaps of fun. Don't worry about the potential innocent victims. What about. . . . . . . . . . .? <<<<<<<>>>>>>>>> I also wonder Jimmy - you have a survivor from a statistical pool of ONE person. And you think that validates your argument or proves your point? What if one person dies BASE jumping because they have no prior skill development program/experience (this has happened!!!!!!!). What does that prove to you? We already know that people have BASE jumped before they have skydived. YOU obviously don't know ANYTHING about the sport or its history if you are trying to prove something that we already know has happend but his just plain idiotic. My suggestion, leave science to other people who know how to systematically develop and implement thorough and reliable testing regimes. <<<<<<>>>>>>>> Aaaahhhh the journey of discovery and progression and development. After all, its worth every risk isn't it. Lets not worry about the potential of our experiment failing and robbing a persons family of their loved one. Lets not worry about potentially depriving this young person with so much zest for life the opportunity to live it for a long time and contribute something positive to this world. After all, you are just doing what the hell makes you feel good. That's it buddy. Your arse is satisfied. Congratulations on your fabulous, selfless, contribution to the sport. p.s. Personally, under highly specific circumstances, I am not opposed to BASE jumps first or younger people participating. But each person has to be judged on their merits. But considering the population as a whole, the combo you mention (young / no experience) is very dangerous for the average person and should not be condoned on a general level. Just my opinon. p.s..s edumacated - is that a word Tom A??? edit to remove personal attacks, and references to and threats of physical violence ~TA Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vinginit 0 #123 August 25, 2005 Your choice to participate in a sport so intensely gratifying was personal – same as most of us. When we choose to play, we face death - reality. Here’s a suggestion - instead of just talking to instructors about dealing with students jumping without radios, try spending a little more time talking to the families of our fellow BASE friends that no longer exist in human form due to BASE accidents - reality. To make the choice of teaching a child, “past puberty”, about a sport that has little, if any, room for error seems to hold some other sort of motivation rather than just the thrill of training a new rabbit. Why is there such a damn rush to teach her? Don’t burn the sport Jimmy. Maybe, someday you’ll be really famous with your so called “motivational factors” that f**cked it up for the rest of us. I would think you are probably talented enough to pursue your teaching in a more honorable style. Take deeper hits Jimmy……DEEEEEEEper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyglider 0 #124 August 25, 2005 I guess this is what makes the world keep turning – a desire for something that feels good and the fruition of that desire and more importantly – our freedom to have that which we desire. She has someone encouraging her while teaching her to BASE when other experienced BASE jumpers wouldn't have dared even with permission. He gets whatever he gets from giving someone their first experiences with BASE jumping. He likes different and new stuff. Maybe for him this is the next level. In a way, they probably are at the same level in their desire and excitement to keep jumping together regardless of what anyone thinks. Honestly, most locals at the PC likely think that think this is actually exciting and completely harmless, and they are the ones who know him best. If you want to BASE, and you’re in the area, you’ll most likely be directed to the same person. A lot of people do have respect for him. He doesn’t go out searching for students. They come to him. Some get his time and some don’t – Tis the season for all the employees there to be working long hours at a very busy dz while interacting with a very special boss and to go out in the wee hours to take a newbie into a place that renders them both elated, must mean there’s something worth it all to keep him dedicated and motivated to put himself out there with her when he could be someplace else. The part about their ages and ethics…who is anyone to judge their “guilt” or “innocence” besides their own selves and her parents? It looks bad to some, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it will go that way. Jimmy is a good guy who is offering Clair her dream to BASE. Each person is allowed their own standards to live by as we properly should be. Choices and consequences. Risk and reward. Old and young. Life and Death. What was, what is, what could be, what will be…..what’s next? Good luck guys. I hope this works out well for everyone (Jimmy, Clair, her family, etc.) involved including the BASE community at large. Stay safe and stay inspiried. p.s. Will the next video be rated PG-16? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brits17 0 #125 August 25, 2005 Jimmy, You post a good argument and I can honestly see you've put a lot of thought into it. However, several whuffo friends have asked me 'wow, can you teach me to base jump?' I giggle and say, 'get a few hundred skydives in, then we'll talk.' It’s because I don't want to see them get hurt. I don't want the responsibility considering the risk of skydiving vs. the risk of base. They have to figure this out for themselves. I've come to grips with the difference and I believe it’s large. ...I suppose we're just different minded people. I've only argued because I still don't understand. In this specific situation: -minimal parachute time -minimal reaction time -minimal body awareness time -lack of risk/reason factor (because of age and lack of experience) All these are very generalized but very important when pondered imo. C ya. _______________________ aerialkinetics.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
