16 Year Old Deathcamper

[Amanduh 0]

Quote

he sought advice and made a wise decision. He deserves credit for that much.

Credit given where due. I'm glad Jimmy went and sought out professional advice. Smart move.

[NickDG 23]

Jimmy,

Now that some rationality has descended on the discussion I need to inform on myself. In 1983, right around the time AFF started, we took a 15 year old girl on a first skydive. I gave her the FJC and went main side and her father was reserve side. It all went perfect, or in your parlance, she stuck it. However, over the years that followed I regretted being involved with that at all. On the most basic level we have been trying to save you the grief and guilty conscious that comes later. In ten or fifteen years you aren't going to think like you do now. You may not believe that, but it's inevitable.

On the other hand you a still a dirty stinking site burner as those towers have been jumped since before you ever saw a parachute and you are really fucking up by selling commercial videos that include them . . .

The striking difference between you and others is most build on, and even celebrate the past, while it seems you ignore it, or worse, belittle and tear it down. The last argument you and I had concerned the fact your website called old-timer's "reckless" and presented yourself as some kind of new breed of BASE jumper. You’re the poster boy for the guy who doesn't get the fact the boat filled with BASE pioneers has sailed and you missed it.

I especially take exception to your stand the Fatality List holds no value for your student. What could be the harm in making her read it? Sure, she won’t understand it all, but even wuffos who read it get the point that BASE jumping is very dangerous. This can do nothing but better equip her to make future decisions.

From everything you've written here its clear you are the last person in the world who should be teaching anybody to BASE jump. I'll echo an up-board sentiment that you continue to document the sport, but I'll add my hope that you think about giving something back to a community that did nothing except make it possible for you to BASE jump in the first place.

Right now, you are doing nothing but spitting in the soup we all have to sip . . .

NickD BASE 194

[Marcia 0]

Quote

... an all-encompassing FJC.

Long time BASE instructor Johnny Utah began teaching weeklong BASE first jump courses at the Perrine Bridge many years ago. He was the first to do so. BASE Camp he called it and has been doing them every year since. He was innovative in his approach to teaching and his FJC was very unique for a long time. I have gone to some of his BASE Camps and it is wonderful to watch how he works with his students. You should ask him what his goal for every BASE Camp is. There is still nothing else quite like it. Other BASE jumpers have since moved to Twin Falls and began first jump courses that have started to mimic BASE Camp. That in itself is a testament to the way Johnny has taught for years.

I recommend contacting him if you are interested to know more. You can get in touch with him through his website. www.johnnyutah.com


As Johnny would say, It Is What It Is !

M

“I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.” --Daniel Boone

[wwarped 0]

Quote

Quote

if experimentation is unacceptable, does that mean you don't respect Carl, Mike Pelkey, or the others?

There is a very large difference between experimenting upon oneself (putting only one's one life at risk), and experimenting upon others (risking others health and safety). The divide grows yet larger when considering minors as the subject for your experimentation.

Tom, I respect you (and others) for training novices. this is because I feel you are "risking others health and safety" every time. the sport is far better for it.

this sport was built by dreamers who pushed limits. sometimes inside, sometimes in equipment, and some failed. many say every BASE jump is STILL a test jump.

but face it, every new training method IS a bit of an experiment. sure, a good instructor will be ever vigilant to ensure the message gets through...

the key when experimenting is to take BABY steps. mixing a new, unproven method with a 16 year old is just plain bad juju.

oh, and I love your "letter" idea. morbid, gruesome, but effective.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[TomAiello 25]

I'm pretty sure that Dennis McGlynn was the first BASE instructor to use a "camp" format, and the first to use the word "camp" to describe his "cliff camps" held in the early 90's.

I agree that this is an excellent format, because it gives:

a) More time to absorb information
b) More chances to ask questions
c) More time with the instructor available
d) A chance for students to build positive relationships with each other

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[jimmyh 0]

Hey Nick,
I was one of the first people Frank Gambali took to this paticular tower after he found it in '96 or '97. He took me out there in broad daylight and said "watch this. And get a good shot." He didn't tell me that he was planning on doing a floater. When he landed, I asked him how it was possible to do a floater off a 480' free standing tower. He was like, "you should feel the wind up there. cool huh? now let me see your shot."

Boy, I miss the Gambler, talk about devil may care.

[NickDG 23]

>>Frank Gambali took to this paticular tower after he found it in '96 or '97.<<

No, I'm talking about "Cadillac" and you know it . . .

NickD
BASE 194

[Marcia 0]

Quote

I'm pretty sure that Dennis McGlynn was the first BASE instructor to use a "camp" format, and the first to use the word "camp" to describe his "cliff camps" held in the early 90's.

What is your point?
I know about Dennis McGlynn and his cliff camp in the mid 90’s at Lake Powell and also how it was short lived because of tragedy.


Johnny was the first BASE instructor to teach weeklong first jump courses at the Perrine Bridge and remained the only one for years until others like yourself began to mimic his BASE Camp. You started your free FJC as a weekend course and then started to mimic the format that Johnny had been using for years. I would think you would be grateful that he has demonstrated so well a superior format of teaching BASE jumping.

It Is What It Is


M

“I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.” --Daniel Boone

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

What is your point?

I'm sorry. I had thought that I was pretty clear.

The point I was trying to make was that the first person to teach with a weeklong camp format was Dennis. You had stated that it was Johnny, which is factually inaccurate. I was just trying to correct that inaccuracy.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[freakydiver 0]

Amen to that - if JimmyH were a "world renowned moutnaineer" he would be shunned by all of his peers. It is well known in that sport that respect is NUMBER ONE on the list, quite similarly to base. No respect is bad karma.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[base428 1]

Not that I would ever want to get involved in this thread, but Marcia's exact words were "Johnny Utah began teaching weeklong BASE first jump courses at the Perrine Bridge." It is factually correct - at least the way I read it.

Quote

You had stated that it was Johnny, which is factually inaccurate

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[TomAiello 25]

Ah, I see. I think it may be a bit ambiguous as written. It does say "at the bridge", but then, as a separate sentence says "he was first." I was reading the "he was first" bit as applying to the entire concept of holding week long camps, because that was what I understood as the topic of the overall post. In other words, I read the post as being about a teaching methodology, rather than a location, and I read the separate sentence about being the first to use that methodology as applying to the entire post.

Apologies for my confusion.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[NickDG 23]

Marcia,

All BASE instruction, since the very beginning when we passed it from jumper to jumper in the 80s, has been incremental, so that's nothing new. All training from the beginning has been stressed as continual, and nobody with a clue doesn't get that.

In Tom's defense a look at your profile reveals an understandable motive for you preference to Johnny's way of doing things, and that's fine. But, you are picking on the wrong guy and not really saying why.

If anything Tom's decision to give BASE knowledge away in a responsible manner, continues the way it has always be done. Maybe we can have this talk again in 20 years when in the end people who sold BASE information for money are going to be seen like the people in the old west who sold whiskey to the Indians . . .

NickD BASE 194

[Marcia 0]

Quote

In Tom's defense a look at your profile reveals an understandable motive for you preference to Johnny's way of doing things, and that's fine. But, you are picking on the wrong guy and not really saying why.

I was not addressing Tom. I was replying to wwarped. Tom replied to me making inaccurate statements that seemed to be geared to discrediting Johnny and his contributions. I would think Tom would be grateful that Johnny has demonstrated so well a superior format of teaching BASE jumping.

Edit to add this: Since you seem bias Nick, do you have any idea how many people Johnny has taught for free? More than Tom, and Johnny continues to do so to some extent, but out of the spotlight.

M

“I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days.” --Daniel Boone

[nicknitro71 0]

Quote

. Maybe we can have this talk again in 20 years when in the end people who sold BASE information for money are going to be seen like the people in the old west who sold whiskey to the Indians

I wish the Indians would have sold some peyote to the old west people instead

I do applaud Tom for the effort and professionalism he puts in his classes. I applaud him even more because he does not charge a penny.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[jimmyh 0]

Nick,
are you talking about the big A. that went up after the red and white striped one? Cuz I know of some super sick footage of the red and white one that Carl Boenish shot back in the day, and when I say day...

[NickDG 23]

>>are you talking about the big A. that went up after the red and white striped one? Cuz I know of some super sick footage of the red and white one that Carl Boenish shot back in the day, and when I say day... <<

I'm reluctant to even mention Carl Boenish and you in the same sentence . . .

NickD BASE 194

[jimmyh 0]

Why? Because he was a super sick, hard core, camera man who jumped tons of shit in broad daylight and captured much of it on film?

Or because I'm an ass hole and he wasn't?

Just a little update. We don't call it "cadillac" anymore. We call it the Big Dog, or the Big A. Just so you know for the next time you're out here. If you ask to go jump "Cadillac" very few people will know what you're talking about and you sound like an old timer.

[wwarped 0]

Quote

I was not addressing Tom. I was replying to wwarped. Tom replied to me making inaccurate statements that seemed to be geared to discrediting Johnny and his contributions. I would think Tom would be grateful that Johnny has demonstrated so well a superior format of teaching BASE jumping.

I mentioned extensive BASE FJCs back in that post and cited Apex & Tom A. as examples.

Johnny U teaches as well. I know some folks who took his class and said he did a great job.

many others have taught courses, and continue to do so. I meant no slight to any of them. I also am not trying to endorse the examples I gave.

instruction can be intensely personal. potential students should seek out not only qualified instruction, but people that speak to them, on their level.

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[NickDG 23]

When Carl started to film BASE jumping he was filming something new and unheard of in modern times. It was only after a few years that it became clear it was something to be kept close the vest, not because it was cool, but because it was dangerous.

And if you think I sound like an "old timer" well you don’t have that right to call me that so fuck you. Someday we'll run into each other and you can explain it to me in person.

NickD
BASE 194

[jimmyh 0]

what gives you the right to call me this:

"a dirty stinking site burner as those towers have been jumped since before you ever saw a parachute and you are really fucking up by selling commercial videos that include them . . ."

[wwarped 0]

Quote

Now that some rationality has descended on the discussion

uh, can we please try to get it back?

DON'T PANIC
The lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
sloppy habits -> sloppy jumps -> injury or worse

[avenfoto 0]

i heart base... every aspect.... you couldnt write this shit...

seriously tho... turn it back a notch.. no need to go choosing teams and telling anyone to fuck themselves...

adressed to noone in particular, but weve got some of the "big names" in base acting like kids...

[gharendza 0]

Hi,
I'm BASE # 75.
What's BASE #460 talking about ?
Thank You,
Gerald Harendza
Night BASE #24

[Zennie 0]

Quote

I'm BASE # 75.
What's BASE #460 talking about ?

I think he just has the number wrong. He first mentioned the person by name (wasn't you) but that person didn't want it published so it was redacted.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon