16 Year Old Deathcamper

[Faber 0]

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>>just grow some balls<<

Oh, if wishing made it so . . .

bwwaaahahaha nice work Nick i like your humor.. how are you theese days anyway?

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[RhondaLea 3]

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BTW, Casey Hoover was nine years old when he made his BASE jump, not twelve like I wrote . . .

And one of Hoover's good friends put his own kid out at a relatively young age.

But knowing Hoover...and his friend...and how it was done...I don't see those instances as being comparable to this one.

I guess it's because I remember Hoover as being one of the smartest guys I've ever run into. He was careless with himself in some ways, but that lack of care never extended to anyone else. The same applies to his friend.

I'm struggling with this because I don't know how to easily explain the difference between Hoover and his son, his friend and his daughter, and Jimmy and Clair, but the difference is there, and its a huge one.

I wish he were here to explain it.

RIP Hoover. You're missed.

rl

If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

[udder 0]

I once accidently hit my girlfriend in the face with my love rifle. Fuck im hard.

"In one way or the other, I'm a bad brother. Word to the motherf**ker." Eazy-E

[Faber 0]

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I once accidently hit my girlfriend in the face with my love rifle.

i do that all the time just rember to shoot them in the mouth as they hate to be sticky in their hair

i wonder why we didnt see pics of Clair yet...

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[beergood 0]

edit to remove quotation from previous posts, with references to and threats of physical violence ~TA


I think you handled your self very well until now. I have never met you but was staying open minded to your position on this. Until now all the people threatening you etc looked bad because you kept your composure. Then you drop this I am a bad ass bomb and step too me I will beat your ass. This really in my eyes hurt your position as well as my opinion of you (which I realize means nothing). Next time really think about what your saying. Obviously actions speak louder than words ask the guy that pulled a gun on you with no intention of REALLY using it. He got what he deserved. Threats in a forum are empty, faceless, and childish. Just a thought. Good luck with the training of Clair. Maybe post some good vid so we can see how really good she is.

[justathought 0]

Just a thought here.

Alot of people are hardballing this girl for starting basejumping without experience.

some of these people are doing things that other people think is stupid with their experience.

some of the people were doing gainers and other hardkore objects when they had low jump numbers

everyone has a level and everyone has a thought about what is right and what is wrong

just because your level is different than some other persons it does not mean it is wrong

base is about freedom and doing things that other people will think is wrong

it is hypocritical to sit there is judgment and say "you are wrong" when you do something that others think are wrong

who are we to judge anyone in this sport

we do it our way and thats it

do be a hypocrite

we all do stupid shit

just some of us end up doing more stupid shit than others

[Amanduh 0]

If the girl was over 18 then I don't think people would say as much.

If anything..and I mean ANYTHING happens to her in this sport it will bring about a bad name. Not to mention Jimmy & Claire's parents will be charged with endangerment to a child. If CPS heard word of this they would take her away in a heart beat.

She is free to do what she wants..but if something happens..others will pay, not only her. That's the difference.

[skreamer 1]

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some of the people were doing gainers and other hardkore objects when they had low jump numbers

Yes, but they were choosing to take those risks for themselves and only endangering themselves.

Last year this time I was attending Duane's funeral, I knew him a bit and that wasn't nice. Then 2 months later Neil died, he was my friend and that hurts a lot. That avatar pic of mine is a screen grab from Neil's video. Since then three of my friends have also been hurt, one only needed some titanium pins and plaster, the other two were hurt badly. My 7th BASE jump I watched the guy exiting before me break both legs.

This has been my experience, it is my understanding that it is only a matter of time until I get hurt, dying is always a real possibility. I choose this level of risk and I have some understanding of it.

Jimmy, do you really want to introduce a sixteen year old to this world?

[SkiD_PL8 0]

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Just a thought here.

Alot of people are hardballing this girl for starting basejumping without experience.

some of these people are doing things that other people think is stupid with their experience.

some of the people were doing gainers and other hardkore objects when they had low jump numbers

everyone has a level and everyone has a thought about what is right and what is wrong

just because your level is different than some other persons it does not mean it is wrong

base is about freedom and doing things that other people will think is wrong

it is hypocritical to sit there is judgment and say "you are wrong" when you do something that others think are wrong

who are we to judge anyone in this sport

we do it our way and thats it

do be a hypocrite

we all do stupid shit

just some of us end up doing more stupid shit than others

If you really want anyone to consider what you are saying, you might want to grow some balls and post under your own name. Just a thought.

Greenie in training.

[jimmyh 0]

When I was living in Hawaii I saw all these little kids surfing the shit out of these huge waves on the other side of a sign that had a stencil of a guy under a wave with a broken neck that said "DANGEROUS SURF!" WHen these little kids ran out of the surf they were immediately high-fived by their parents.

People die in the ocean all the time. Why didn't CPS take these kids away from their parents.

Has anyone ever seen MIke Mullins kid swoop? Isn't he like 14? And he sure can swoop. Of all the incidents and fatalities in skydiving, the attmept to swoop often tops the list. Why doesn't CPS take Mike Mullins' kid away.

Talk about bad publicity for BASE: quite often the media is there to take pictures when "the best BASE jumpers in the world" go in right in front of them. Why would anyone represent a sport in a positive light when the "best" keep dieing from preventable disasters.

What about a different story for the media: Smiling sixteen year old girl learns to BASE jump and loves it. Impossible you say? Bad publicity? What about presenting the sport in a less "we're all crazy and know it, but we do it to overcome wierd issues in our lives" way and more of a "this sport is fun and when done right, it can be done safely." Because it can.

Would CPS really take her from her parents in a "heart beat"? I mean is that a legal fact? Cuz they're pretty fired up for her.

Gotta go do a tandem later I'd like to address these good questions:

-minimal parachute time
-minimal reaction time
-minimal body awareness time
-lack of risk/reason factor (because of age and lack of experience)

[TomAiello 25]

All,

Threats of physical violence are unacceptable in this forum. Please refrain from doing so in even a hypothetical way.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[Amanduh 0]

Jimmy, out of curiosity. Do her parents skydive? Do they BASE jump? Have they been around either one of these sports?

Edited to add: Why not answer the question previously stated by another as well : Jimmy, do you really want to introduce a sixteen year old to this world?

*Also, the reason I ask about her parents involvment in these sports: If they do skydive or base..then they are more messed up then imaginable to be all excited about their daughters new adventures. If they don't...that leads me to believe that if something happens to her their views are going to change dramatically and all will come down on to Jimmy. Why do we sign waivers when we skydive? To prevent DZ's from being sewed. Jimmy....if something happens to this girl...her parents will more than likely blame you and there is no telling what legal action could be taken.

[Thijs 0]

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and when done right, it can be done safely." Because it can.

If there is anything as a non jumper that I have learned over time, it is that this is NOT true.

I'm just thinking at Slim's 180 for example. Good exit, probably good packjob, very experienced guy. Still he got hurt. Everything was done right, but it didn't turn out 'right'.

[460 0]

I have been convinced -- I am taking a bunch of children on my next BASE expedition!

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[Thijs 0]

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I have been convinced -- I am taking a bunch of children on my next BASE expedition!

haha, this makes me think of a video of Jhonny Utah who was talking to some children about base. At the end he asked who wanted to jump and a large group of the kids raised their hands.
Hilarious

[justathought 0]

Yes I think someone of 16 is way too unprepared to BASE jump

Yes I too have lost friends and also have plenty of metal work to remind me what is real

Stating law that will come down on these people if this fucking stupid 16 year old gets hurt is slightly confusing as most of the time we don’t really stick to the law now do we?

But I understand what you are saying

She is way too young to decide for herself and way too inexperienced in parachuting to make an informed choice

But my point is that a lot of people on here are handballing someone going against the grain and going against the normality of what is right

This hardballing seems to be actually more toward the mentor of this obvious injury / death to occur

but my point is how can we all sit in judgement when we all do things against the grain and put a tongue out to the the rules

Who says what is right and what is wrong

With the amount of people coming into the sport at the moment the ethics side is getting diluted so much

If you want to be involved with the way the sport is going (and people unprepared is one of the ways it is going no matter how much we try to stop it) then you must accept the way people are getting into the sport. You can’t fight it and you can’t change the way the world is going. No amount of internet bitching, advice, talking, phone calls, emails etc etc etc is going to change it. Accept it and hug it or just leave it and just keep the underground aspect of emails and phone calls going that allows people to jump and get a bed in places they visit. The people getting a fast track will soon realise you cant get into this sport and jump / get a bed anywhere in the world unless they work for it. Fuck them

If you don’t agree with what is happening with the sport and you can’t control it, as actually no one can. Why not just walk away from this “I am a base jumper” mentality on the forums and just go and have fun with what you want to do.

Fuck the newbies with fuck all experience and let them deal with the fallout themselves. They wont have friends all over the world, and when they fuck up they and their mentors will reap the rewards of it.

[Amanduh 0]

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I have been convinced -- I am taking a bunch of children on my next BASE expedition!

Do I qualify?

[460 0]

Only if you have the mind of a child.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[skreamer 1]

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"this sport is fun and when done right, it can be done safely."

If priorities are safe and fun then stick to skydiving. Even people who only jump easier objects like TF bridge or that A we see so often in your movies will eventually up the ante. Why? Because after 30 jumps off the bridge you decide to do a gainer, then a double-gainer etc etc. Look at that A in your movie or even Norway for that matter. Human nature is to push the envelope so we take what should be an easy jump and complicate it. Now when you are a bit older you hopefully know to only push the envelope a little at a time and when to pull back. But a teenager?

With all the cross-fire on here about gender and lack of skydiving background, the real issue is getting lost a bit. My argument to you Jimmy would be that a teenager who really is heads-up enough to BASE jump should be heads-up enough to wait a while. Sounds like a Catch 22, but that is what I believe.

And of course there is the problem of precedent, can you imagine all the 16 year olds all over the world reading this and going 'Cool, if a 16 year old chick can do it so can I!'. Unless we start advocating 0.5 wingloadings their gear won't be of much use to us after they go in. Because they will because they know better and they are special and we don't understand them.

Partly I still reckon this has all been one big colossal wind-up thought up by you, Miles and Shane. If so, cool because it has prompted some good debate on what was fast becoming a wishy washy forum filled with shite.

Will

[dmcoco84 4]

Jimmy,

I totally agree with you on that one. There are so many things that parents are allowing their children to do that could result in serious injury or death and nothing is thought of it. It’s just that BASE and Skydiving are not as mainstream as other things like surfing, great example, so they are looked at differently. People see jumping out of a plane or off an object as crazy but not a huge wave and the undertow that could easily slam you into the ground and drown you.

I knew a guy who was doing motocross in high school when he was 16. He showed me some of the jumps he was doing and if he had had a bad landing he could have easily been seriously injured. It is my perception that only because it is more mainstream and on TV, X games, people look at it differently.

I also agree that in the future the world of BASE will be changing. Your point earlier about students and ram air canopies is a good indicator of this. Some things that look like a bad idea now change over time with good results. Same with static line and AFF. There is no need to do static line when AFF is perfectly safe. I don’t think the change in BASE will be any time soon but it will definitely happen.

L8er
D

[jimmyh 0]

O.K.,
so say I tell Clair to go away and come back when she's 18...she goes in. Is that better? I'd feel the same.

Say I tell her to go away and come back when she's 18 and has 250 skydives...she goes in. Wuold that be better? I'd feel the same.

I'd feel the same if anyone I taught went in during the early days of their jumping when to a large degree I am responsible for their safety. At some point we feel less responsible for our students, but that's a grey area too.

The question for many seems to be that I'm breaking an ethical law that has something to do with protecting minors from even their parents. Show me the law and I'll stop this instant. seriously someone call CPS, tell them you know of a guy who's teaching a 16 year old to participate in a potentialy dangerous sport that is not governed by any oficial government agency, and that said teenager's parents are fully aware of these activities. Ask them if they were told where this child lives would they go confiscate her from her parents? Honestly I'd like to know.

Slims 180 was not at this object. Sites are the number one contributing factor to risk when it comes to BASE jumping

"Why not answer the question previously stated by another as well : Jimmy, do you really want to introduce a sixteen year old to this world?"

Sorry that's a stupid, loaded question. Why not ask why anyone would want to bring a child into this god forsaken world of misery and disease unless they were millionaires and could afford to buy their offspring an easy, safe ride through life?

If BASE jumping is really this dangerous we need to cap it now and not bring any more of our friends into it. Because if it really is as dangerous as many of you say then no one at any age is capable of making an informed, inteligent decision about participating in it.

I sit on the other side of the what if? fence than many of you. otherwise I wouldn't ever get out of bed. It's a very unsafe world.

[Zennie 0]

My main disagreement with you is on the skydiving experience front. Plain and simple.

I personally believe that there are several vital survival skills that can only be learned in the skydiving environment. You obviously disagree with me, but I'm as confident in my position as you are in yours so we're at an impasse there.

I also believe that putting someone off an object who does not possess those skills is reckless. Again, we obviously disagree and neither of us is going to budge on that position.

However, I DO agree with you that the biggest determinant of risk in our sport is the object. So I certainly hope you're teaching her object assessment skills while you're performing this experiment upon her.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[hookitt 0]

Jimmy

If posting about this had nothing to do with publicity, then I retract my statement. It was purely a speculation and often speculation goes no where. The statement did however, spark a pretty good response from you.

You and I don't agree on some things and to that we've already agreed to disagree. As far as the non-skydiving participant in the BASE realm, I'll leave that alone and add this.

Since the CPS has been mentioned, and one thing that hasn't been mentioned, what about contributing to the delinquency of a minor? BASE in and of itself is not an illegal activity. Trespassing is. If you both are caught on that object, who's to say you won't be charged with contributing? I'm curious because I don't know.

People contribute all the time in other ways but I'm curious about this in particular.

Thoughts?

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[jimmyh 0]

Tim,
Good question. When I spoke with Clair's mom on the phone, she asked "what laws are you breaking." I told her that as far as I knew, the only law we were breaking out there is tresspassing. I said we'd for sure get cited for that if we were caught. She had no problem with that.

So I guess I'd have to say I'm willing to risk a contributing to a minor tresspassing ticket.

[nicknitro71 0]

Playing devil's advocate here.

Many of you stated that the problem is not the age of the girl but the fact that she has no skydiving experience or the proper maturity yet I did not see this hell raising with any of other death camp candidates.

If you claim your only concern is the lack of "aerial" skills than you are an hypocrite.

The BIG problems I see here, the ones that piss off a lot of people, are the age of the girl, to a lesser extent the gender, and the fact that the trainer is Jimmy.

Many of you are boosted by big egos so you cannot face the fact that a little 16-year old girl can BASE. Face it.

Many of you are genuinely concerned that she lacks the maturity to fully understand the consequences of jumping off things. That could or could not be true. If you don't know her than there is no way you can know for sure that she lacks the true understanding of the dangerous nature of our sport. By the way I know plenty of "mature" people who don't understand the danger of BASE, PLENTY...

Many of you throw laws and ethics here and there just to boost up your arguments. As far as law is concerned I don't think that Jimmy is braking any (besides trespassing), and as far as ethics go, well ethic is an hypothetical construct. Every single one of us lives by different ethical principles. By the way the vast majority of the word out there believe that trespassing and jumping objects is unethical...and many also think that burning Jet A for satisfying our adrenaline needs is unethical...

If Clair dies during her training chances are Jimmy won't get prosecuted (an actual attorney please comment on this one) but her parents or heirs will most likely win a civil law suit against Jimmy if they decide to sue but I don't know how much money or goods the dude has.

I bet that if Tom was training a 16-year old boy skydiving "virgin", the responses seen would look much different than the oned on this thread (just an example, I know Tom would not do it).

Again, playing the devil's advocate here. I neither condone nor undermine Jimmy's act and not knowing the guy I cannot form an opinion on him or his motovations.

Memento Audere Semper

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