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I've never flown it but I've been told by people who own them that they don't have as good of a glide ratio compared to a Sabre or equivalant.



I have around 50 jumps with Pilot 150 and 15 jumps with Sabre 2 150 both loaded 1.5 . I like Pilot more then Sabre 2 and I found out that Pilot has better glide ratio compered to a Sabre 2, better opening and toggle input.

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I've never flown it but I've been told by people who own them that they don't have as good of a glide ratio compared to a Sabre or equivalant.


Haven't flown the pilot either, but I heard different things about the glide ratio.

Somebody who jumped both (Pilot 170 and Sabre2 170, wingload around 1.3): "Both good canopies, but the Pilot has better glide ratio and better forward speed". All in all he liked the Pilot so much better, he changed his mind about what to buy.

Back to the original question: is the Pilot a beginners/novice canopy? Supposedly its an intermediate. I think it's in the same league as the Sabre2: would you consider that a beginners canopy??

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Aerodyne was at our DZ this weekend. Everyone seemed to really like the pilot. I jumped the Amax 94, very sweet canopy. I am going to get Aubrey to send me the 99 so I can put some jumps on it when the winds aren't 20mph. Got a chance to really check out the Icon. It is a very nice container. It comes complete with just about everything you could want. Hip rings, stainless hardware, and a collapsable PC.

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you don't have to run out your landings.



You shouldn't have to run out your landings on any modern, moderately loaded, parachute. It's uaually pilot error that results in run out landings.
I think BillVon wrote up a few reviews of the new Aerodyne canopies. Search the site for more info.

-
Jim
"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

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I did quite a few demos comparing a pilot 168 with a Sabre2 170. I found the pilot to be more responsive, requiring less input to get the desired effect. I found the opening shock to be very similar, but the pilot gave me on-heading openings every time while the Sabre2 was all over the shop (turning in the direction of the (random) closed end cell). And before you ask, yes, I packed it with the PD instructions next to me.

In terms of flare, the Sabre2 came out ahead. With the Sabre2 I could easily choose when to level off, then step down when I wanted. That technique didn't work for me with the Pilot, which required a single solid flare to just arrest the descent.

Hope this helps.

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OK – I can give you a reasonable comparison here – I have a fair few jumps on Sabres – most recently 300+ on a Sabre (1) 135. I then got sick of the sh*tty, unpredictable openings and bought a Spectre 135 which I now have 30-40 jumps on. I love the openings, but prefer 9 cell type landings.

I demo-ed the Pilot 140 and 132 at Eloy and I have nothing but praise for it! The openings are beautiful – nicer than my Spectre, which is something I just didn’t believe was possible! :)
In short – I liked! B| I want to demo the 132 again, and the 124 and I think I may well get one to put in my new rig! B|B|

Vicki

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I also demoed the Pilot 168 and Sabre2 170 at Eloy. I'd have to say that overall they seemed fairly comparable, and both were much better than my rock-like landings under a Triathlon in no wind situations.

The openings were fantastic on both canopies, about 300-400 foot snivels with no "special" treatment in packing. I made a point of this, being not the most cautious packer in the world.

One final note on glide-ratio: Talking with Aubrey, it seems that the Sabre2 has a faster perceived landing speed because the Pilot has a slightly "flatter" glide ratio; a bonus when getting back from long spots.

I just purchased a complete system from Aubrey, and I'm pretty sure I won't regret it. :)
-James

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they don't have as good of a glide ratio compared to a Sabre



The Pilot comes out of it's dive faster than a SABRE2. You can swoop it just asa well as a SABRE2 if you fly it hard enough. Never had anyproblems getting back from a long spot. Lands solid into or with the wind.
Dom


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Back to the original question: is the Pilot a beginners/novice canopy? Supposedly its an intermediate. I think it's in the same league as the Sabre2: would you consider that a beginners canopy?



The Pilot is a great introductory canopy. In a normal filght it is less aggressive then the SABRE2. The Pilot likes to comes out of a dive a bit faster then the Sabre 2. That IMHO is better for the newer jumper. It gives them maybe a second or two more reaction time to recover from that low turn they just did, that they said they would never do.
Dom


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I also gave the pilot 170@1.4 in Eloy a try and I was impressed then I try Sabre2 and on the first jump I had diving opnening which I´m used to from my Vengeance (not impressed) second jump I had a break line fire which gave me again diving opening (not impressed at all) .
The pilot I had to fold my self (didn´t come with deployment bag) .
The Sabre2 was packed by prof. packer and was ready to jump.
so I´ve to give the Pilot 1st place here

ps I´ve now Sabre2 while my Vengeance is back to pd for testing (for good) ,hope that this one will be a good one
AM67

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>The Pilot comes out of it's dive faster than a SABRE2. You can
>swoop it just asa well as a SABRE2 if you fly it hard enough.

I agree with the first part of that statement but not the second. A canopy with a short recovery arc is more dangerous to swoop than a canopy with a long recovery arc, and the Pilot has a very short arc. I recommend the Pilot as a good general purpose canopy but it is NOT a good swooping canopy; if it is used as such it will tempt people to start high performance landings much lower than they otherwise would, and thus reduce their margin of error.

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>A canopy with a short recovery arc is more dangerous to swoop than >a canopy with a long recovery arc . . .

>Why do you think so Bill. I disagree.

A canopy with a short recovery arc requires you to initiate the final turn lower. The lower you initiate the turn, the less margin for error and the less time to bail.

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I supose that's one way to look at it. I think a canopy with a short recovery arc is a better learing canopy because

a) they tend to be FAR more responsive to a "dig" to get out of the corner, and

b) the sight picture is easier to recognize and respond to when lower.

c) a "dig" on a long recovery arc canopy needs to be done early in the arc, when you're still very high, and the situation may not be recognizable to a novice.
----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

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I supose that's one way to look at it. I think a canopy with a short recovery arc is a better learnig canopy becays a) they tend to be FAR more responsive to a "dig" to get out of the corner, and b) the sight picture is easier to recognize and respond to when lower. c) a "dig" on a long recovery arc canopy needs to be done early in the arc, when you're still very high, and the situation may not be recognizable to a novice.



And if anyone knows about digging himself out of the corner, it's JP.

Sorry. I couldn't resist....

....um.... it's the Jet Lag...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

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A canopy with a short recovery arc requires you to initiate the final turn lower



No need to start lower in the turn. You just have to fly it harder meaning. Once you have started the turn you will have to hang on the fronts a bit to keep up the speed. OF course you want to let off of the fronts with time to get completely back under the canopy. With a Pilot I start my turns about the same height under the Nitro I am jumping right now. Just takes more fronts to keep the Pilot in the dive.
Dom


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>No need to start lower in the turn.

Well, but that's sort of the definition of recovery arc. If you do a turn, and then stop using the toggles, a canopy with a short recovery arc will plane out faster than a canopy with a long recovery arc. You can keep either canopy diving with front risers, but at some point you might as well just use front risers and avoid the turn altogether.

An "ideal" swoop is one in which you turn at an altitude such that the canopy planes out on its own, at ground level, with no input. (I'll ignore the front riser vs toggle issue for now.) That way if you initiate it a bit low you have brakes to shorten the recovery. You can also start it higher and keep it going with front risers, but you won't get as much speed. If you start it _really_ high you might as well just use front risers. A canopy with a short recovery arc will be trying mightily to get back to level flight, so the additional speed you got from the turn will dissipate pretty quickly even if you hang on the front risers.

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>No need to start lower in the turn.

A good explanation of recovery arc from Brian Germain:

Recovery Arc

"Recovery Arc" describes the amount of time and altitude required for a parachute to recover to level flight following a radical maneuver. Although it is difficult to quantify this characteristic in a manner that would be useful, generalities can be very helpful when choosing a canopy. The Samurai falls somewhere between the Jedei and the Stiletto in it's aggression to recover from a dive. In other words, the Samurai will dive fairly aggressively immediately following an airspeed-increasing maneuver, but gradually pull out on it's own to a slowly-descending, high-speed flight mode. This design characteristic makes the Samurai very easy to swoop successfully, as you are able to pick up speed at a high altitude, and then wait for the right moment to level off with a bump on the toggles. Compared to canopies that pull you to level flight before you are ready, the Samurai is much easier to land, and swoops further across the ground.

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