skygirl1 1 #1 January 29, 2004 My boyfriend has a 20 year old reserve...it has never been used. He took it in to a rigger for the 120 day repack, and they refused to do it.........just because it is so old........is that reserve chute safe at that age even though it was never used? skygirl1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brains 2 #2 January 29, 2004 I AM NOT A RIGGER! It is my understanding that re-packs (20 yrs worth in this case) can be harder on a canopy that jumps. I am sure someone else could give you a definate answer. Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jib 0 #3 January 29, 2004 A good start: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=254628#254628 -------------------------------------------------- the depth of his depravity sickens me. -- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #4 January 29, 2004 What type is it and how many repacks on it?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #5 January 29, 2004 What is the make/model of the reserve? Do you have documentation that the reserve has never been jumped? Riggers are not required to pack reserves, they are accountable for the work they choose to perform. Most riggers I know choose to not pack reserves that old as a general rule. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygirl1 1 #6 January 29, 2004 okay....my bag.....it is a microraven--square canopy--and it has had 2 jumps on it......and it has never missed the 120 day re-pack. He bought it directly from a private person and had the reserve looked at by a rigger when he bought the whole rig 2 years ago. skygirl1" Mean people SUCK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #7 January 29, 2004 QuoteMy boyfriend has a 20 year old reserve...it has never been used. He took it in to a rigger for the 120 day repack, and they refused to do it.........just because it is so old........is that reserve chute safe at that age even though it was never used? it's all up to what ever rigger packs it to determine if the canopy is safe. if the guy looked at it, and said no i will not pack this because i feel it is unsafe, well then that's his decision, and i would respect it. i mean, it's your life your playing with, and if a rigger told me that my reserve was unsafe, i'd be getting a new one. still, take it to another rigger that you trust, and have them look it over, if they say its ok, and they'll pack it then go for it. but other wise i'd be looking for a new reserve. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #8 January 29, 2004 I'm confused... Are we talking about two different parachutes? One is your boyfriend's reserve, 20 years old, and no jumps and the other is yours (microraven w/ 2 jumps on it)? The microraven should have a label near the center of the tail that should have a production date and serial number. Tell us that information. Edit: That information should be on the packing data card if the canopy is packed at this time. Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygirl1 1 #9 January 30, 2004 long day..........I am talking about the same 20 year old reserve of his...........his is the microraven with 2 jumps on it.......we have to pick it up from the dropzone that refuses to do the repack........once we get it I can give you more info........ sorry for the confusion........ skygirl1" Mean people SUCK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #10 January 30, 2004 I'm pretty sure MircoRaven's were'nt around until the early 90's. Thats only 15 years old at the max. The 80's had the Raven I, Raven II, Raven III and the Raven IV. The Super Micro Raven was introduced in 1988. If a rigger refuses to repack it there is usually a good reason. Find out the reason and if needed have another rigger verify. If its that old and has been repacked 30+ times it might be tripping the poresity scales and might be failing for that reason.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #11 January 30, 2004 Heya Skygirl, Notwithstanding how old the reserve actually is, those who say that the rigger's discretion is final are likely going to be "right". When a rigger seals the reserve, they are effectively certifying that "all will be well if this thing actually gets used". I'm sure there's no hidden profit motive in selling your b/f a new reserve, just good intentions. If another DZ's rigger will do the job then it becomes THAT rigger's issue. Maybe one more repack is in order while going on a new reserve shopping spree? And now for my story.... I jump a Raven II, DOM 1991, as a MAIN . Yup, that's all the money I had at the time ( and still do) and in 150 or so jumps I've had line twists on opening precisely twice. The flare SUCKS and the opening s can be slammers - but remember this is a similar canopy loaded at nearly 1:1. When I asked my rigger if it was worth getting a porosity test to verify its condition he just snickered and said "don't waste the money, we KNOW what the answer will be". A lightweight newbie might be a good candidate to use the "uncertifiable" reserve for a main - if someone else has a container - and if you can still find someone who doesn't have Shiny Gear Syndrome. You could also buy your b/f a spare set of risers - effectively treating him to a "spare" canopy. LEt's face it, if he would rely on it as his last chance then why would he not jump it as his first? Good luck Don't write off your rigger or DZ for being overly "protective" but also don;t be afraid to ask for some short term grace if you are working a new reserve deal through them. Communication is everything. -Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #12 January 30, 2004 Chances are if the rigger said no...There is a reason. Do you want to risk your BF life on a canopy that someone grounded? Parachutes don't last forever. I have heard several riggers refuse to pack gear over 20 years old.... Think about it...If it fails....he is dead."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crapflinger2000 1 #13 January 30, 2004 I always refused to pack stuff older than 20 yrs for sport stuff. I always did extensive inspections of reserves, but past a certain point (and I admit 20 years is totally arbitrary) it is not worth the money I charged for a repack to do all the extra stuff I thought I should, like mulitple pull tests and the like... I know not everyone can afford new gear, but there is certainly enuff good used stuff out there at reasonable prices that people should be able to afford it. I always used to shake my head when people would bring in an old Wonderhog with a Preserve in it and say, "it's good enough" or "it works." Yeah, it works. So does a 57 Chevy, but I'd still rather have a car with airbags, ABS, seatbelts, etc. I am not trying to start a shit storm, I know Wonderhogs are great rigs, etc etc for their day, but this is not their day anymore. __________________________________________________ What would Vic Mackey do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #14 January 30, 2004 A more graceful option is for riggers to say "this is the last time I will repack this reserve." That gives customers 120 days to find a new rigger or rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #15 January 30, 2004 I would never pack anything that old for anyone. I used to have an old rig, it had a round reserve in it. Later in life I went to rigging school and there was that old rig and canopy in it.. the canopy had a "death diaper" (no free bag on round). and I wish that my rigger back when I purchased that rig would have told me NO to packing that thing. You where handed a blessing, run with that to the gear store and get your man a new canopy! if you don't have the money get it! be safe today, jump again another day.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundZero 0 #16 January 30, 2004 QuoteLater in life I went to rigging school and there was that old rig and canopy in it.. the canopy had a "death diaper" (no free bag on round). WHAT!?!?!?!??? Free bag on a round? The diaper makes a round survive opening in most ...do I say, more modern systems.... Chris age does not determine airworthiness, condition alone determines airworthiness... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #17 January 30, 2004 I asked a rigger about the 20 year thing. He said it was totally up to the rigger, and that there is no age limit on gear, since age doesn't dictate wear and tear or airworthyness, you rig could have stayed in a closet for 15 of those 20 years, and the reserve was only used 2 times. I though F-111 canopies could take a couple hundred jumps before the porisity got too low to flare efficiently? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PD126r 0 #18 January 30, 2004 As it has been mentioned: The rigger who grounded the reserve probably did this out of good will. Remember it's supposed to be a life-saver... I don't really see the problem here: If one DZ's rigger wants to ground it today, every rigger will also follow in on the decision not long from now (given the first wasn't a blind half-brainer...). So the res. will have to go soon anyway. Tell your BF to hold the jumping for some time; this will save some of the money he needs for a new canopy. Or maybe you can chip in..? ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #19 January 30, 2004 Chris, are you not familiar with the death diaper, two band stow system? the one that did not want to open all that much!www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,179 #20 January 30, 2004 What differentiates a "death diaper" from any other diaper on a round reserve? Or are you saying that any diaper on a round reserve is bad, in which case I'll say you're wrong. Wendy W. (active rigger in the days of round reserves)There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygirl1 1 #21 January 30, 2004 okay folks...............got all the info....... MAKE---GQ MODEL--X-210 rigger said reserve chute is fine...BUT....the pilot chute is weak and the main risers are not airworthy. I guess bf needs to think about safety and quite being stubborn skygirl1" Mean people SUCK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #22 January 30, 2004 Sounds more like the container is the issue rather then the reserve. A GQ X210... wow, have'nt heard of that canopy since I started reading PPM's as bedtime stories. I think seaches of DZ.com will even come up empty for that canopy. Your BF needs to get new risers and depending on the make of the container, he might need to replace the reserve PC, freebag and the fees with that. If there are that many issues with the rig he probally should just retire the container and get a newer one. Used rigs are 300-700. Small price to pay for good gear.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #23 January 30, 2004 X-210 or X-210R both would make a nice car cover. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 563 #24 January 30, 2004 QuoteWhat differentiates a "death diaper" from any other diaper on a round reserve? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First time I have heard that term. I lean towards the other end of the scale and refuse to repack round canopies without diapers because diapers reduce the malfunction rate on round canopies ten-fold. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GroundZero 0 #25 January 30, 2004 QuoteFirst time I have heard that term..... I was worried something got by me in the diaper days... The diaper is a marvelous development for round canopies... greatly reducing the rounds natural desire to pick up a lineover... Where does the term "Death-" diaper come from? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
GroundZero 0 #25 January 30, 2004 QuoteFirst time I have heard that term..... I was worried something got by me in the diaper days... The diaper is a marvelous development for round canopies... greatly reducing the rounds natural desire to pick up a lineover... Where does the term "Death-" diaper come from? Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
