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plaiskool64

Storm Vs Epicene

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plaiskool64

hello guys,

didn't see any post on Storm VS Epicene.

ANy of you jumped both of them and want to share expericence pros and cons?

Thank you.



I would also look at the Aerodyne Pilot7. I have over 800 jumps on a Storm and the Pilot7 really takes 7 cell to another level. Good openings, fun responses and surprisingly a glide like a 9 cell.
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The epicene is fantastic if the ONLY thing you care about is a smooth on heading open and ease of packing. The landings/flare are terrible on that canopy. My ankles were sore after every weekend of jumping that canopy. It's also really hard to make it back from a long spot. Life span of 500 jumps is a real drag too. I've got probably 250 jumps between the epicene 150 & 170 i had. I upsized to the 170 thinking it would be easier to land softly since i loaded it a 1:1. Still wasn't the case.

I've now switched back to a Storm 135 and absolutely love it. Very consistent and fun to fly. I don't plan on switching up my canopy choice any time soon.

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A good friend of mine had the exact opposite experience. He went up from a S2 170 to an EP 210 loaded at ~1.0 and he loved it because he no longer had to run out his landings - they were easier on his legs.

Always important to try out a canopy before committing $$$ to buying it...

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just read the description on their website and nowhere I found the phrase 'great flare'
Infact the complete opposite:

Quote

7-cell designs made from 0-3cfm fabric (F-111) all require some experience to land comfortably, compared to lightly loaded 9-cell ZP designs, and therefore it is not recommended for student use.



You're basically jumping a sportier reserve. And that is pretty much exactly what they marketed it like. and like lyosha has said, if you can't land a parachute chances are it's you, not the parachute :P

ETA: The Epicene landings I've seen so far looked like any other 7cell landings, smooth and slow
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Haha don't get me wrong, I've never claimed to be a canopy expert. But my storm 135 lands with a lot less fuss/skill then my epicene 150 & 170. Body position tends to effect a canopies opening more than what's packed in there. My storm opens good for me, flies well, and lands well. We all don't have to have opinions that agree.

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Lots of different views so try the canopy you are interested in before you buy, if possible. Don't forget to try the Pilot 7 as it has gotten lots of great reviews as well from numerous people. Each canopy has pros and you have to find the best fit for you.

Scott
"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

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jumpsalot-2

The only thing a Storm is not good for is a long spot. Otherwise they are great.



Given you have a good tailwind, a proper wing load and decent altitude under canopy I see no difference making it back with a steeper trimmed storm vs a more moderate canopy like a spectre, given both are same size canopies and you know how to use the brakes ;)

In skydiving 0p over f111 any day, or at least a hybrid with 0p top skin, unless you are discussing reserves.

If I had to chose between storm and epicene I'd pick 0p over 0-3cfm fabric any day. But since price is also a factor I'd much rather take a used inexpensive canopy like an old sabre, electra or spectre for 200-400 dollar over a brand new storm for 5-10 times that amount.

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I started wingsuiting with a Storm. Terrible for long spots and had awkward openings occasionally. The canopy had a tendency to do steep diving turns even when it opened square and on heading. Line twists, which happens every 10 jumps or so, can get quite unpleasant if the canopy exhibits such behavior. Despite packing in various ways, I couldn't get rid of a randomly occuring snap at the end of the snivel. This was a major neck problem for camera flying.

Then I bought an Epicene. Improved openings (and less altitude loss too), better glide, but the flare was noticeably worse. I think anyone denying the weak flare really needs to try other 7-cell canopies of the same size. The responsiveness of the canopy goes downhill after ~400 jumps. Note that this canopy is definitely not suitable if your landing area is abrasive or snaggy. The fabric rips easily if you get careless. On the other hand, packing is a breeze!

Now I own 2 WinX's and have never been happier. I had one line twist since I bought my first WinX in March (that's ONE 360 degree line twist in over 200 jumps) and 90% of openings are on perfect heading. I've become so confident that I will not hesitate to pitch in a diving turn or while coming out of a barrel roll even with full camera gear. Excellent glide, soft openings, decent swoops and packs a tad smaller than other ZP 7-cell canopies. My WinX's are loaded at 1.37 and 1.54.

Full disclosure: I am a dealer for Atair and Squirrel

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Bufobufo


Given you have a good tailwind, a proper wing load and decent altitude under canopy I see no difference making it back with a steeper trimmed storm vs a more moderate canopy like a spectre, given both are same size canopies and you know how to use the brakes ;)
.



This sentence makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying given enough wind, you can get back from long spot flying backwards. And given enough altitude you can get back even on round parachute. But how does is apply to most real life situations?

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I have about 15 jumps on a demo Pilot7 167 LPV, and personally I wouldn't get it if you're planning on doing anything other than WS. They fly great, but terminal openings I found unpleasant -- hard enough to make me dread them when I pitched. That was plain old belly, don't even want to consider anything where higher speed openings are a risk. OTOH, if you're going for a WS-specific rig, LPV easily lets you pack 2 sizes up compared to a ZP 9-cell.

My Storm 150 is a fine WS canopy in my very limited experience, but I have to agree that getting back from a long spot gets harder. Storms also have an attitude right after opening -- I've seen it on two different 150s that they will often roll to one side or oscillate until given a couple seconds of strong rears. Gets a bit annoying when you need to unzip first.
"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

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mathrick

I have about 15 jumps on a demo Pilot7 167 LPV, and personally I wouldn't get it if you're planning on doing anything other than WS. They fly great, but terminal openings I found unpleasant -- hard enough to make me dread them when I pitched. That was plain old belly, don't even want to consider anything where higher speed openings are a risk. OTOH, if you're going for a WS-specific rig, LPV easily lets you pack 2 sizes up compared to a ZP 9-cell.

My Storm 150 is a fine WS canopy in my very limited experience, but I have to agree that getting back from a long spot gets harder. Storms also have an attitude right after opening -- I've seen it on two different 150s that they will often roll to one side or oscillate until given a couple seconds of strong rears. Gets a bit annoying when you need to unzip first.



To each their own. I use my Pilot7 135 LPV hybrid on belly jumps quite often and have had fantastic openings. Go figure.. That is why I say to try a canopy..
"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

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As far as the epicene goes, my main reason for switching was to be able to put a canopy two sizes larger in the same contained. My sabre 120 did great for a long time, but giant wingsuits lead to inconsistent openings. The epicene 150 opened incredibly more consistently. I found that just a bit of a roll of the nose makes it open great at terminal/tracking too. The flare is good, but definitely less than a ZP 9 cell canopy. There are a lot of swoopers around the west coast who also fly wingsuits, and seem to jump 110ish epicenes and love them, so I have to agree with the canopy skills play a role as well.

My opinion is if you want to upsize without changing containers and have great openings on a large wingsuit, get an epicene. If you don't meet those criteria, theres plenty of canopies that will work awesome for much much less cost, including a good ol fashioned sabre 1.

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Quote

My opinion is if you want to upsize without changing containers and have great openings on a large wingsuit, get an epicene



The WinX offers a normal (to very flat even) glide, strong flare, and smooth openings and I can comfortably fit an Ultralight 170 into my Vector that normally struggles to fit a Storm 120.
There's plenty of options worth looking at, including ones that combine the best of both worlds.
JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

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skow

***
Given you have a good tailwind, a proper wing load and decent altitude under canopy I see no difference making it back with a steeper trimmed storm vs a more moderate canopy like a spectre, given both are same size canopies and you know how to use the brakes ;)
.



This sentence makes absolutely no sense. It's like saying given enough wind, you can get back from long spot flying backwards. And given enough altitude you can get back even on round parachute. But how does is apply to most real life situations?
Ok, trying to clear things up: If you and your boyfriend fly in deep brakes, both weigh the same and use the same size canopy; your storm 150 will take you just as far as the spectre 150 flying next to you. This example won't work if you fly your scirocco 93 (2.70 lbs/ft²) next to the spectre 150 (1.67 lbs/ft²) as you will fall out of the sky much quicker. You might object and say that you fly next to bigger size canopies on a regular basis keeping the altitude, but that is bias.

If you won't make it back from a long spot with your storm, it isn't likely due to canopy model. It is more likely due to to someone's poor judgement (possibly yours), a malfunction or some other unpredicted shit I cannot predict.

Your logic:
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

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I bought the Epicene to start wingsuiting Was concerned about the unpleasant line twists with your arms and legs tight. Anyway I got to say OPENINGS ARE GREAT! always on heading and soft. and as for the landing is concerned, in my case just generating some forward speed thru the front risers allowed me to have some good flares.

I need like a 130 thou because of its material. Its a Epicene 170 only 30 jumps and with all its extras. Risers, Skyhatck, carbonfiber pilot chute handle etc. 1800.00

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