fcajump

Bought one from a different mfg (not Sunrise) that made both the reserve and container... THEY couldn't pack it at a legal pull force. (first time it arrived, they had bent the pin trying to close it) Spent way too much time arguing with them over it. So yea, it happens. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

You are right... but... Always has been done. Young horse, just don't look at his teeth. New giant ocean steamliner, minor water damage, not even one voyage old... buyer must pick up. And the auto dealers have pushed the "previously owned" vs "used" monicer for a while now... Currently I think part of the problem is folks wanting to change gear frequently and not wanting to loose depreciation on what they are selling. To any newer jumpers/buyers, this is where a seasoned rigger can help. You MUST have a pre-purchase inspection done with the sale contingent upon the results. There is a lot of crap out there, and even more decent but overpriced used gear. Caveat emptor Meanwhile T - decaff and some sleep will help my friend. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Last spring I got one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Skydiver-Syndrome-Gear-Bag-Parachute-Rig-Skydiving-Container-Backpack-Yellow-S19-/221535297299?hash=item3394885f13:g:Dz4AAOxyu~lSSP7P (see their store, they have several size and color options) So far I've been happy with it. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

OK, now you're just showing off your age... Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I agree that one should have test results to review. But putting something on the market rarely requires this, and a good marketing program can usually lead people to the sales counter without asking for facts. From what little I've seen here, there was an idea to solve a problem a new way. A few prototypes built and tested a few times and then marketed. I'm guessing some with be bought. Most will have to be installed by the rig owner as I hope that few riggers will install them without good reason/data proving their worth. PCIT will result and the owner will usually live through it and realise that this was dumb and quietly remove them. This is a common practice in the IT field (and others) of letting the early adopters be the Beta testers. In most fields the early adopters are not increasing their risk of death by listening to the hype and getting the next new thing. I don't want to squash people's interest in trying new things. But learning about what we have, what we had, why certain things were kept and others abandoned, and most imporantly what level of testing is needed to find the flaws in a design is crutial. I had a great improvement idea for a common flag deployment system. Worked great for 12 jumps. Was perminently retired at 2000' on jump 13 when the flaw in the design was discovered. With that said, we should push ANY developer that wants to see us new stuff... where are your test results? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I have jumped a Steaman bi-plane for a weekly airshow for 20+ years and in that time we have gone from one unbelted jumper in the front to one belted jumper in the front. I have had planes loose power at 500', bumps on the runway that would shake our wingwalkers loose and aborted takeoffs that would NOT have gone well if we had anyone already on the wing(s). I have heard of it, and will admit it tempted me in the early days. More jumpers available than aircraft, plenty of power and we climb-out, spot and (if necessary) hang-out there at altitude... so what's the problem. As with most things, its NOT the normal situation that will cause you problems, its when you've already stacked the deck against you and then you have a "normal" problem. Bottom line - VERY bad idea. JW PS - our wing walkers taxi/take-off in the cockpit. True, they do not stay there long after TO, and they have no* tether or parachute, but they do know where they should be at until the pilot is ready for the additional drag and they are in steady-state-flight. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

When I ask, I mean #2+ (i.e. thrown) But I go back to a time when "pulling at" usually meant 2k' for most all the jumpers on the DZ (2,5k and 3k for lower licenses). That means that the difference between 1,2 or 3 was important. When you're getting good horiz sep and planning to pull at 4,500', its not quite as specific. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I always ask this, and NO it does not change my intent on horizontal sep. I ask for two reasons... 1. I ASSUME that at some point, SOMEONE is going to f-up on the horizontal and/or track the wrong way. If we know the intended pull alt, we can ADD the safety of vertical sep with horizontal sep. 2. Once open, knowing where people intended to open gives me a headsup as to where to start looking for people in the stack. This is NOT a case (nor should it EVER be) of letting the horiz sep slip. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I've been flying small/mid-sized flags for over 25 years (~500+ jumps with them) and it can be fun, it can also kill you or someone else if you are not careful. GET HELP FROM SOMEONE EXPERIENCED IN THIS FIRST. Weighted system: weights can be dropped (done it). Weights will swing as you turn. drop flags (weights) will stop moving forward before you do. * see "anchor" for the list of possible outcomes * Ankle to riser system: (like the one pictured in another reply, its my most common type) - once deployed, you are tied to your main by your ankle. - this can be disconcerting if you later realize you have an issue with your main (been there), or if you end up in a wrap. - flag display is slightly diminished as your burble disrupts the air around the flag. (see https://youtu.be/VgfoBoNYsA8 ) And to your question... in the lines: - good news - when it causes a malfunction, it should leave cleanly with your main (been there/done that) - bad news - its the most likely system to cause an issue with your main... though when properly rigged, it works well... - It is NOT done with the suspension lines, but rather with an extra looped line and a stowage bag sewn to the underskin of the canopy, generally between the C/D line attachment points on one side of the center cell. - It increases the bulk of your canopy... not good if you already have a tight packjob. - It also increases the weight of your main... not good if you have a smaller/worn-out pilot 'chute. *Note the emphasis on "sewn"... early on I had the great idea to use links to temporarily install it at the line attachment tapes... removable, what could be better... well the last time I used that system it flipped through itself during packing and trapped a breakline. Demo jump ended up with an unplanned cutaway at 1800' as the canopy spins backwards. - I do think that for small/mid-sized flags, the in-lines rigged flags fly/display best. Finally - all of these systems cause distraction, change your pre-jump checks, increase the possible in-fligh complications, some change your emergency procedures and all increase your risk level. The list of comparison above is VERY abreviated... there are many other aspects to each system that come into play... I know it can be hard to find folks experienced in designing/rigging a flag system, but we are out here... come find us. If you're in the mid-Atlantic area, send me a PM. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Cookie Fuel Roller Mount Cutaway strap - AND PRACTICE IT. Just my $.02, JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Yep, that's the one! Thanks all.... now if I could only find a copy of the tv documentary on it... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

At the time, yea... I'm guessing its what inspired them to call out the tri-motor. Recollection is that it was almost twice that number though... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I remember seeing a documentary on the most jumpers on the outside of an aircraft... recollection it was the Junkers version of a Ford Trimotor. But I can't find ANY reference to it on the web. Would like to watch the video again, but can't find it... Anyone here have any leads for me on this search? JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Echo -> get a rigger's help. The earlier in the process of getting stuff together, the better. If you have someone around that is experienced in jumping demos in costume, get them to go over your costume as well. I did a rodeo demo in full western gear (sans hat)... Things you don't think of... the boot's heals were a challenge climbing out of a Citabria and deserving of much care upon landing. I am VERY glad you're looking at things that do not require a mask. Leave that sh!t for much later. I like the idea of sewing the top-hat to a frap. This is where your rigger can help as it will need to be very secure. Look for stuff that comes loose, introduces snags, can be blown into bad locations (covering handles) or catch air and make you fly differently than you are used to... Finally, some things don't necessarily like the abuse of freefall speeds. My Santa hat was fine for the jump-pics, but was looking well worn by the time I landed. Be safe, have fun!! JW ps - in 1600 jumps, the least I have jumped in is a pair of cut-offs and sneakers... (lesson there - Remember that removing flight control/drag surfaces change how you fly too) Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

A load of tandems should be like a mountain climbing expedition, in that there should be an implied veto power of one, no questions asked. Imagine what might happen if a student got hurt on a load where one TM (with good judgement) had stood down. I hope to be reincarnated as a lawyer under those circumstances. Years ago, I was on a load of 5 tandems where we got a report that it started raining on the ground. 4 of us quickly told our students that we'd be preparing to decend in the plane (doff helmets, put on seatbelts, etc...) but one TI became quite insistant that it was fine to jump with a little rain and we could do what we liked, but he and his student were going. Took pretty much all of us and the pilot to... um... "inform" this TI that it wasn't going to happen. (didn't help that he was sitting at the front of the plane and would have had to climb over everyone to get to the door... or maybe it did...) Turned out that it was a very heavy downpour by the time we landed. In thinking about the day's students and the financials at the DZ at the time: for his student: he was the TI($), he was the rig owner($), and he was getting the student finder-fee($) for most of the students on the load. He saw the abort as costing him, but when we saw the rain from underneith, it could have cost him much more had he not been shouted down... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

^This^ and another thought... if you are in ANY doubt about your reserve, are you going to hesitate when making the decision about keeping a questionable main (or hard pull) or going straight to silver?? I've pulled my own rig from service in the past when I could not comfortably answer this question (in my case, it was for other reasons, but the question and how you answer it for any reason is the point). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Few years ago, I understand that a bigway event the organizer indicated to the full-facer's that fogged/iced was not an excuse and bad flying would be grounds for replacement. All the visors came off and folks went to goggles. JW PS - learned on a Protec-full, currently using a Fuel, but considering a G3 myself but I've got a few more jumps than the OP... FWIW... Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Protec Fullcut. I didn't need to do anything with my audible other than stick it in the ear cut-out... stayed all by itself for me. Worry about the expensive stuff after you've got your wings under you. Partially to spread out the expense. Partially to keep the good visibility and help you hear better. Partially because some DZ's won't want their students/newbies using full face. And partially because you're most likely to scratch up your helmet when you're newer. Just my $.02 JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Unfortunatley this is still not true... Yea, you will have no backing from the mfg (or anyone else) when you go outside the published proceedures and/or limits. But that does NOT mean your choice doesn't affect the mfg or our industry. Sit and talk with someone who worked at Strong after a TI lost a student for not tightening the straps as he was taught. 100% instructor error on video. And yet it almost put Strong out of business before it was all settled... simply because they had (perception) money and the TI/DZ/DZO didn't. That doesn't include the negative press for the rest of us. Now, are we busting tandem gear, not yet... but even if we don't manage to bust the worn out POS some of you still jump, an incident with a passenger often has very bad reprocussions on use all. Several mfg's have already pulled out of the sport industry, choosing to focus on the military work as the liability is much lower. How much have we already lost in the sport over that? We'll never know. The 'its all on me' attitude before hand doesn't dismiss the rest of the industry from court after you f-up. Want to pound in yourself, OK (but please not at my DZ). But what you do with the 'innocent, paying passenger/student/wuffo' is something completely different. But wait you say, they signed a waiver... and (in the situation we're discussing) YOU busted your training, TSO limits, manufacturer requirements, industry best-practice and common sense. Now explain that to the judge, jury and widow. [/rant] JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

In fire rescue it's 15x 9000lb rope for 600lb 2 man load., static load. Skydiving gear is no where near this. Look at TSO standards for structural load test requirements Pia.com public documents for the latest standard. Yeah, you're probably not going to be able to equate one industry safety margin to another's because much of it is about the wear and tear unique to that field. In looking at some of the tandem equipment some DZ's keep putting back in the air... which industry were you thinking of when you mentioned "wear and tear unique to that field"?? Just curious... JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

I would take the "no longer mandatory" notion to be inline with their notice last year that it changed to address the problems with customs. For me and my shop, I still go by the "factory recommendations" standard. For some rigs that means a 20 year service life, for Cypres' that means they WILL be sent for check at the 4/5, 8/10 year points. As to retro-policies for older units, I'll go with what they recommend, but it would be nice to have them all on the same schedule/protocol. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Wasn't there as I had just started jumping in 1990 (and was NEVER going to be a rigger... oops). I bought my first one in mid/late 91. (edit - further reflection... yea, I guess I recall when they canceled the 10 year inspection and said to plan on a 12 year lifespan.) My docs show: Manual 10/1991 - equipment lifespan - no notation - batteries - no scheduled time, simply when low-battery indication shows during self-test - factory service every 2 years Manual 03/1995 - equipment lifespan - no notation - batteries - 2yrs, 500 jumps or when low-battery indication shows during self-test (which ever comes first) - factory service every 4 years Recollection - sometime in here they tried a 4 year battery cycle, but canceled it fairly quickly Cypres Rigger Updates 1/96 - maint window 4yr +/- 3mo Manual 08/1997 - equipment lifespan - no notation - batteries - 2yrs, 500 jumps or when low-battery indication shows during self-test (which ever comes first) - factory service every 4 years Manual Cypres 2 (no date - white cover) - lifespan - 12 years - battery and factory - 4 years Manual Cypres 2 (no date - white w/ purple stripe) - lifespan - 12yr 3 mo - battery and factory - 4 years Cypres News 5/03 and 8/2004 - silver sleeves no longer needed - maint window +/- 6 mo for Cypres 2 - maint window +/- 3 mo for Cypres 1 - 10yr maint requirement cancled - lifespan - 12yr+3mo I do find it interesting that the original ads emphasis was not only on its accuracy, but just as much on the hidden-away aspect and the "they'll never know you have one". Such was the reputation of the prior generations of AAD/AOD's. Now we design (some) rigs so that we can ensure that the control unit is easily seen and verified to be on. JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

Fair question... dunno (can't speak for them). JW Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...

How did I miss this...? Checked my new Cypres 2 and found it was indicating a next maint cycle in 5 years. (not 4...?) Sent and inquiry to SSK and got the attached letter back. Nice surprise.

Alright - revamped this thread as I now have a direct interest in the cause... How about: FOFs - Flailers over Fifty POPs - Parachutists over Phifty (yea I know, conflict) GAS - Golden Age Skydivers GAPs - Golden Age Parachuters OTHerS - Over The Hill Skydivers I have just found the FAST-50 group https://www.facebook.com/FAST-50-Fifty-And-Still-Trackin-181911485282519/ and expect to put in my application shortly. JW Born the same year as POP's, so I STILL feel young. Always remember that some clouds are harder than others...