DocPop

In general, yes, much less likely as the design is more stable on the canopy types most often used for students. And the same goes for reserves. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I meant to add that the KA120 to VE103 was what PD recommend as the right progression, so I think for a comparison of your 96 you might want to be trying the KA107. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That would have been much worse if it read "+85" "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I went from a KA120 to a VE103. My very initial impression (based on only one high-pull on the VE) is that the Katana does everything the Velocity does, but the VE does it all better. I don't feel like the VE dives all that much more. It is a cleaner, more rigid wing and the rears feel amazing. The front riser pressure is going to take some getting used to after the KA's super-light fronts. I think you will probably be disappointed by the KA after flying a Velo, particularly if you're going from a 96 to a 120. I am really looking forward to exploring this canopy more - particularly how much I can do with harness input. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Allows me to keep the slider at the stops during the packing sequence. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Yes, there are several suppliers (depending on what canopy you have). Search in classifieds or for "removable slider" right here in the forums. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Having jumped the VE for the first time yesterday (WL 1.9), I can see why the turn technique has to be different from the KA; there is a lot more pressure on the fronts (and the toggles). I'll probably start my turns from brakes now. Something I didn't bother with on the KA. I'm thinking I should be able to get 800' of dive with a 270 when I get it dialed in. However, overall, what an amazing canopy. The rears feel so powerful and controllable. It feels like everything else I have ever flown was a car with a flat tyre - just slightly soggy feeling whereas the VE is so connected. This is going to be a fun learning curve! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You're very welcome. Also up high (and after checking your airspace) you can try finding the sweet spot while looking straight up at the canopy, out to the side at the horizon and with your eyes closed. In each case, after finding the sweet spot and holding it for a second or two, slowly finish your flare to build muscle memory for the two actions. Notice in each case that you get swung out in front of the canopy and try to feel the increase in pressure on your legstraps, the reduction in wind noise and the fact that you are no longer losing altitude. Again, be safe and have fun! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Absolute rubbish. Flat turns are involve a slow change in direction and, by definition, are non-diving. There is no reason why they should be unexpected, nor why they should not be performed at an expected time or place. You'd prefer someone just buried a toggle, I suppose? Modern canopy instruction teaches flying a pattern in a small amount of brakes (no, not deep brakes and no, not on final) to give you the option to both speed up and slow down. Performing turns as flat turns is an extension of that and can be performed without a dramatic alteration in forward speed. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Whatcha got in mind? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Hi - and apologies for my gender assumption! Canopy time is HUGE in gaining confidence. If the only time you flare is close to the ground then it's going to be stressful because you have to get it right. Practice up high will enable to you to develop feel for your canopy alongside the knowledge that the classroom has given you. Re: finishing the flare - regardless of the length of your arms, you are finishing your flare when your elbows are locked out and both hands are in front of/between your thighs. This might not be as much flare as the canopy has to offer, but it's maximizing what you can get at this stage in your learning (later on things like adjusting the brake-lines may help when you have your own gear, but that's not for student rigs). It's a good habit to get used to flaring down the center-line of your body if you can because it helps keep it symmetrical. My view is that freefall time is for fun and canopy time is to save your life and your legs (but is also huge fun!). Get your canopy flight down so you are confident and you won't have that worry hanging over you when you are supposed to be enjoying your freefall! Keep working at it, get feedback from knowledgeable people and you'll get there soon. All the best. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

OK -- here's the grain of salt; I am no hot rod driver. It sounds like you are saying that the housekeeping and speed-inducing turn are both something you must do on every jump.. I understand the openings as being a potential issue but I see no requirement for housekeeping and a speed inducing turn. What am I missing? I think you're missing that Drew was answering the following: The answer being that, with a small elliptical, it isn't. That's not to say you couldn't but what's the point of getting your own pass on a small elliptical if not to do a HP turn? I think you both essentially agree that it's perfectly feasible, just more of a ball-ache than it's worth to plan a 2k HnP for a swoop. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Whoa there! We don't even know if he has established where the stall point is yet. I thought about going into that but let's remember he isn't licensed yet. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Your from Canada ya freaking canook, you go preach some where else. I don't appreciate your claims that these type of incidents are prevelant in the USA. Well, considering your climate in cnookada, I can see where it could happen more here than where you live. Talk about ignorant...go preach somewhere else Ya Jerk. What the hell? What are you talking about? Don't you mean "aboot"? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

If your instructors allow it, pull high (7,000+) so you have some working time under canopy to practice not only the sweet spot, but also finishing your flare. This will probably be more useful to you than a few extra seconds of solo freefall. Remember to tell everyone on the load if you plan to pull high before you board the plane, and also don't exhaust your arms to the point that you have no flare when you need to land! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Nonsense. I have pulled low to avoid the guy above me, I have pulled high to avoid the guy below me. It may not be a good way to PLAN, but there is in fact safety in vertical separation. Absolutely. That is of course what I meant, thanks for clarifying. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Assuming you mean sweet spot in the sense it is used in canopy courses, then yes, I do have advice: practice up high. Do dedicated canopy jumps and practice flaring to the point where your canopy planes out, ie. it is flying horizontal, you are no longer losing any altitude. Now practice that until you know where the point is. The drill goes like this: - clear your airspace - let the canopy fly with no input for 10 seconds - flare to the point where the canopy planes out - hold that point and remember it. - repeat On landing, look out in front of you, not down and when you are about 10-12 feet off the ground flare to your sweet spot. If the ground keeps coming at you, flare some more. If you're just right or too high hold you hands in their position until you start to sink out then progressively and smoothly add more toggle to ease you down to a touchdown just as you reach full flare. Always finish your flare and try to keep flying the parachute for as long as you can. As always, listen to your instructors and if possible have them video debrief the landings. Stand up landings are easier when there is a bit of wind (say 10-12 mph). Finally, it is going to take practice and realize that there is no one perfect flare - it changes for every jump. I use the analogy of a non-driver asking a car driver "How do you know how much to turn the steering wheel to go around a corner?". It's a nearly impossible thing to answer; every corner is different and the best answer is "Just enough but not too much" which is nearly useless but applies to flaring too! Good luck! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

No. I have a lot more in my life to live for than just jumping. Having said that, I am aware that next one might be my last. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

If you're using vertical separation to create canopy separation then you are part of the problem. Horizontal separation is what you should be aiming for. Most land in the same area. Vertical separation helps, especially for tandems and students getting out last and pulling higher. One can only guess how many tandems would have been involved in canopy collisions if they did not routinely get out last and pull higher. Admittedly they may not do this for separation, but it probably affects the outcome, regardless of dick swinging aphorisms. There is no safety in vertical separation. It does not leave room for a high speed mal, a premature deployment, loss of altitude awareness etc. They are all bad enough on their own without having to worry about who is below or above you. The TIs I have seen are leaving appropriate intervals in the door to create horizontal separation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

WRT rear riser landings - so do I. I won't downsize until I can land without using my toggles (but still holding them, of course). It's not in itself an OK to downsize but it indicates a level of comfort/control with your wing. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I've learned plenty from Jimmy too! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I will have a stab at it: FR turn: When you pull on a FR you decrease the angle of attack of one side of the wing. This causes a decrease in lift and an imbalance with the other side of the wing. This imbalance causes a roll which initiates a turn. The decreased AoA/reduction in vertical lift vector means that it is a diving turn. Harness turn: Similar to a FR turn, harness input causes an increased loading on one side of the wing which reduces the vertical lift vector and causes a roll and subsequently a turn. Since there is no increase in drag or distortion of the wing, it is a very clean turn. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Great to know. Personally, this is becoming one of the more informative threads I've ever read here! Thanks Ian. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I think the point is that you can speculate all you like in this thread - just not the one in incidents. Just like you should not start a boobies thread in Gear & Rigging. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Thanks again - that's very helpful. I've heard the Velocity has quite high front riser pressure. At the moment I'm only up to 270s on my Katana but I'll be going all the way back down to 90s before building back up again so I probably won't be maxing out the fronts for some time, but I'll certainly try flicking the last 90 with harness only up high. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA