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Or alternatively: "With a round you go straight down, a square will get you over there"! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Actually this phrase is often trotted out, parrot-fashion and I'd like to know what exactly it means. Does it mean be able to do everything Nick Batsch could do with that wing? If so, how do we even know that Nick is reaching the limits of the wing? Essentially, I think it is a hyperbolic way of saying "get competent under it". "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Almost right.... "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I agree. Why would anyone not want to try out every canopy they can within their safety limits? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

To what end? We usually end up with an answer anyway, except in those case such as low cutaways when even a CSI-type would not be able to go back and ask why they didn't chop sooner. I don't think so. Those sorts of comments tend to come out in the immediate day or two after an accident, before there is time for any CSI investigation and would therefore be unaffected by the results of any investigation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

There is also the effect that differing types of ground can have on the formation of updrafts, or thermals. These can certainly affect descent rate. Actually, in this example groundspeed will change until the system regains equilibrium under the new conditions I think you mean if there is a sudden change in wind speed?? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That should not be an issue if you have enough canopy talent to be doing it. I can undo my cheststrap with my hands in my toggles with Velocity while keeping the wing flying level. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Baglock? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I agree about the suspended jumper moving forwards and backwards relative to the canopy. I think there are two things that affect this: 1. lean forward - less drag on the jumper - jumper moves forward relative to the wing - system pitches up. 2. in order to pivot about the fulcrum (three-ring attachment) you have to apply some torque force to the system. This is done by applying force to the risers (usually the rears since this is happening during plane-out). So, inadvertently, leaning applies riser input. Just my theories... "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

For me, this is the take-home message from this thread! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

+1 Assuming you're not having a mal.. Clear airspace Turn towards DZ (or at least off the line of flight) Stow slider Release brakes/control check Loosen cheststrap/reposition legstraps (w/o loosening) "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I may be a bit behind the times on Social Media and all that crap, but how is getting a million likes from people that have never met you a rational decision making metric for whether to consider skydiving? This sounds like it's all about personal publicity and if that's the case then you want SoFPiDaRF. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I'd go with the best customer service vs cheapest (in any product I buy). i've bought a safire2 about 3yrs ago from NZaerosports and had funky openings right from the start; i just talked to them and they'll change the lineset if necessary and will actually testjump it before they send it back, free of charge. i think that's pretty good service.

Wind is irrelevant* under canopy unless you are considering your movement relative to the ground (eg. landing or trying to make it back to a certain point upwind). *Obviously I am not including things like wind shear, dust devils or turbulence. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I think the first thing to do is get someone who knows what they are looking at to watch/video some landings. It could be a number of problems not associated with equipment such as not finishing the flare, asymmetric flaring, reaching for the ground, flaring too slowly etc, etc. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I wasn't jumping in the 90s (apart from a handful on rounds), but from your comparison, it looks like a much more "together" sport now. Looks like jumpers are taking it more seriously and the equipment has come on a lot! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That sucks, man, I hope you get it back. Was the car locked? Was the rig in plain view, or hidden from casual observers? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Good conversation, though, and I am really interested about this. I hope a CP competitor, canopy coach or canopy designer will chime in with an explanation. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

My bad - I totally missed your sarcasm. Apologies to you, sir. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I may be wrong as i never studied but i believe the short answer is the 'G' forces experienced whilst rotating a mass at speed around a single point...the mass of the jumper essentially increases. Practical demo lead fishing weight suspended on a length of cord. Whilst suspended easy to hold etc. Now take the end of the cord and rotate/swing above your head and the forces generated essentially cause the weight to want to part company with the cord or the cord to part company with you grip. No, I don't think so. The mass of a given body is always constant. "Weight" can vary as it is the force exerted on a given mass by gravity. Additionally, the centrifugal force you describe works against the canopy and I can't see how it would aid acceleration towards the ground. Just my thoughts but that doesn't answer it for me. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Explain how that is in any way meaningful advice. You are effectively saying that you can't try to hit gates until you have hit all the gates you have tried to hit. My advice is don't try to learn this alone - get coaching. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What a terrible idea; an app that says this is safe, and this is not. The lawyers will have a field day with this. Anyone who has any need for this app should be talking to instructors, and if they don't listen to real people telling them face-to-face then an app is not going to help. Skydiving is not a one size fits all sport. Automated advice has no place. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I think I understand what you're saying, but to me you answered the question "Why is there tension in the lines?" rather than the one I asked; "How can a jumper with an open canopy approach any where near freefall terminal velocity, given all the extra drag?" If, as was mentioned before, the pitch angle changed sufficiently that the lift vector of the canopy is angled below that of the horizontal (which I find unlikely, but I don't know that), then that might explain some force, additional to gravity, which could accelerate the system towards the ground. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That's a very interesting concept. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Is that a "no" then? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA