DocPop

I've seen it. I watched a guy step into his leg straps and put his arms through his MLW, then bend over to put his booties on... chest strap dangling, he draped it through the buckle and carried on. He tightened his leg straps, looked down at his chest, and then headed for the plane. I vectored him off behind the boarding area to remind him that he hadn't finished. This. I believe a lot of these are a case of "I'll just sort that out later" rather than actually thinking it's done. I don't believe that a jumper who has been cleared for self-supervision can put a chest-strap solely through the elastic keeper and truly believe it is correct. Either way, it's unnecessary and if nothing else, shows that the jumper has not performed adequate checks prior to boarding, on the way up and before exit which I suggest is a minimum. We are expecting this gear to save our lives - we should give it a fighting chance! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You mean the Comp Velocity? You're a wee bit late there with your conspiracy theory! That has nothing to do with a conspiracy theory. Interesting that you think petra lite, designed for everyday use is on pair with a comp velocity. Maybe you're right. In view of the discussion about the lack of an RDS, maybe it's more on par with a regular Velocity. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I used a Velocity removable slider on my KA120 and IMO it improved the openings. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I agree with you entirely; when on the plane - be ready to exit. My point was that if you're waiting on the ground for a load etc there is no reason to half do up your cheststrap. On or off. That's the rule. If its on - you're good to go, if it's off at least you make it easier for someone to spot. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Good point, but the thing that really f**ked this guy was the fact that he half did his chest strap. It was done enough through the keeper to look at a casual glance like it was done, but functionally it might as well have not been there. Why do that? Cheststraps should either be done properly, or not done up - no middle ground. It serves no purpose and, as this case shows, causes problems. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

You mean the Comp Velocity? You're a wee bit late there with your conspiracy theory! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Was this in the UK? If that slipped through the rigorous flightline checks there, imagine how easily it could happen in less strict countries... I've caught the same thing myself. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Can someone explain to me how, when terminal velocity for a belly flier is around 120mph, a vertical descent of almost the same speed is possible with a deployed canopy? Even the wings on a camera jacket can slow the wearer more than that! Someone that knows the physics of the system better can probably offer an actual explanation that makes sense, but I can at least describe what it feels like... First off, I think the JVX lineset made a significant difference. As I said earlier in this thread, I was hitting around 80MPH on this same VX skin under the original lineset. A couple of points, though; - the earlier tests were at a dropzone near sea level (200 ft MSL), and this latest jump was at a DZ at 5290 MSL, so my descent started from about 15K MSL - I'm sure my technique has improved, plus I was going for maximum descent, and not necessarily simulating a high-rotation landing as in the prior tests. I was wearing baggy shorts over some longjohns. I had done a couple freefall-terminal jumps earlier in the day and fallrate was about 125-130. I was jumping a removable slider, but left the dbag/pilotchute on the topskin (i.e., I think if I wore tighter clothes and went full-RDS, I could probably get another 5MPH - will try again soon). There was "noticeable" G-force in the turn, and I was completing each full rotation in just over 2 seconds. But it actually felt like the G's built up more as I evened the input to the harness exiting the dive. In the future, I'll be jumping with more instrumentation so that I can get a true reading on the actual G's that are built up during the different phases of the flight. The best layman's guess I can give as to why it's possible to hit these kinds of speeds with such a large surface area (i.e., the whole front nose of the canopy + the lines + the jumper) is that the canopy is producing an incredible amount of lift and the speedy rotations are converting that power into downward flight. Regardless of whether that's a good explanation, it sure is fun! Thanks, but that still doesn't ring true for me. Additional lift = additional drag so that should make things worse. Any scientists care to have a go? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Can someone explain to me how, when terminal velocity for a belly flier is around 120mph, a vertical descent of almost the same speed is possible with a deployed canopy? Even the wings on a camera jacket can slow the wearer more than that! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Look at it this way: If you do AFF you are CERTAIN to be alone under canopy. You may or may not be OK with this shortly after the first time you exit a flying aeroplane. If you do a tandem, you have someone with at least 500 jumps of experience with you the whole time. If you don't need them, then you haven't really lost anything. You might be fine never doing a tandem, I and countless others have been, but you will only know for sure after the fact. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

It's possible that the hard pull was due to grit/dirt in the reserve rip-cord housing. Was it a regular steel rip-cord cable? ETA: "Well-lubricated" adds credence to my theory. More lube on the cable = more dirt stuck to it. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Have you tried without tucking the nose? I totally agree about being neutral and balanced during openings; I don't look at it and I don't try to fly it. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I had the same experience as you. The less "fancy shit" you do to it, the better it opens. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Having jumped a Katana at low jump numbers (starting at about 150 jumps), I would be interested to hear more about why you say this. I didn't feel like it slowed me down, but then I don't know what my progression would have been like if I had stayed on a Sabre2 (for example) for another 400 jumps. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

The post where he elaborated on the size was posted while I was writing mine so I didn't have that info. However, PD recommend that if you're going from a 120 Katana to a Velocity then you should try the 103. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

IMO no harm at all. If you can handle a Katana then a similarly loaded VE should be manageable. To me the VE feels like the wing the KA should be - similar dive, but faster, cleaner and more responsive. Downsides to the Velo? Pack volume and cost spring to mind immediately. Also the fact that because they are only made up to 120 size, there is a limit to how low a WL you can go. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Pull out. It's the future! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That's not a very effective way to fly a 150. Hence why i stated WITH SMALLER HIGHLY LOADED CANOPIES. There is no need to shout! The OP was asking about a 150, and your answer gave no indication of your definition of "small" or "highly loaded". To a person who has only jumped 170s or bigger a 150 might feel small. My comment was adding value to yours for the OP. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That's not a very effective way to fly a 150. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

But it is "A forum for swoopers and anyone who wants to hone their canopy control skills.". Seems to me that is what the OP is trying to do. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Agreed. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I'd say most of the difference you're feeling there is due to change of model/planform. I went from a Sabre2 190 to a Sabre2 170 and didn't notice much of a difference. When I subsequently went to a Sabre2 150 there was much more of a noticeable change. With bigger canopies, a one size change is unlikely to produce dramatic changes in performance, all other things being equal. I can't comment on the OPs question as the biggest canopy I have ever jumped is a 200. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

It seems that proximity flying and low cutaways are this years fashionable ways to die. HP turns less so. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I suspect it's a money decision. More jumps, tying up fewer instructors. Of course, it may be that starting people off more slowly could have better results - it would be nice if someone had some hard data. But I don't really know what metrics should be used. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

So did you get a nice, unanimous response to your question? You did not. You still don't know which canopy suits you best. That's my point. But really, don't get all wound up - it's just a chat room. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA