rynodigsmusic

... Or they just know better man... I have no doubt that you, nick, Kurt, jay, jc, can all jump in those winds but its more a matter of should you. Very rarely do winds that high remain steady and even if they do turbulence off obstacles and jumpers of lesser skill ect will always b an issue. Just yesterday I sat down on 14-25knots (1500+tandems)... All other Tis (all lesser experienced Tis) jumped. The winds were 19-28knots when they actually took off and 32knots on exit. The load before I sat down I literally dodged a fucking dust devil.. I have jumped in those winds before, and paid, but now I hope I know better. I've hit hard many times... Sorry if this is coming off brash but iwas disappointed with my team for not even backing me up at all, but ego always will hurt. Bottom line is would you take your mom/grandma in those winds? There are people who get lucky their whole career, but it only takes one time to get ur ass handed to you. If Tis don't jump then videots don't, up jumpers unfortunately have to learn on thier own, but hearing some guy say he'd jump in 33mph winds with a nice hard hook is not who I think they should learn from. That's the only reason I replied... Peace "We didn't start the fire"

wow dude. maybe in another 5000 jumps you'll change your mind... and shame on a dzo or s&ta who will let you jump in 33mph winds Either you work near an ocean or just really flat plains but believe me bro your asking for it, even the best canopy pilots in the world wouldnt jump in that shit, I wonder why that is? "We didn't start the fire"

Everyone has a story... the question is are the lessons learned from the stories fallable as well? Ineveitably mans perceptiions are fallable, but that does not mean that the lessons learned from those stoiries are also. "We didn't start the fire"

None of us understand everything... God is understanding itself. "We didn't start the fire"

You and Jakee are funny sometimes! I wonder if you have shared a beer together or not?? Or near beer in your case Ron? anyway, I dont know to be honest Ron, Im not yet caught up and obvioulsy im on a complete different time zone than most of you, and I work all the time, so, I guess im saying I need some more time to give the attention needed. Not that my opinion counts for anything, but, it seems I am in this thread at least a little, and it is something we are all passionate about, so, I really want to be involved in what you guys are saying, but need some more time. You know how it is!! I cant help but wonder what would happen if we all met at a boogie somewhere? I know for me, I kinda like my anonymity! But, all things change "We didn't start the fire"

well, either you have been "lurking" for a very long time, or you have had some experience already on open forums! I dont like jump numbers because I very seldom post in the skydiving part of this site, as my thoughts there dont mean near as much to me as my thoughts here. Plus, I am way out of my league experience-wise, nevertheless, the profile is now changed. It was about time anyway I guess... so... I understand that. But faith is more than just beleiving, it is an action, a step. You use "blind" faith when you jump, as you dont know if that will be your last or not. You may try and lie to yourself, but the truth is the moment you leave the door could be the last few minutes you spend on earth. No worries, its just the truth. Accidents happen to even the best. Debating whether or not God is real must be a college level argument, but, understanding faith is a matter of truth. It must be a college level thing, because most atheists I know are very educated and intelligent, and they use many of the same analogies. Flying spaghetti monster? I didnt even hear that until I came on here. The point is that for me an educated mind is far from my pursuit, but a mind of truth is not. Not saying that an educated person cannot find truth, but you used an observation, and so did I. Just because someone is educated does not mean he knows or speaks the truth. I disagree. either something is true or it isnt. There have been plenty of institutionalized people who never get out. Doesnt have to be the prison we know, but perception in general. We think this is the way because we were born into it. High school, college, job, marriage, kids, life, old age, death... obviously there is more, but, the truth is that we dont have to live by this world system. Sure we have to understand it in order to escape is evil ass clutch, but the perception we are born into does not have to be the one we leave with. Although, in my observation, it usually is. There was a stat, not sure if its true or not, but they say some 90% of muslims who are born muslim, die muslim. And Jesus breaks the chains of oppression and reveals an entirely new perception of life. One that I will testify for until I am gone with all my heart. Why? Because I get a greater heaven if I convert someone? Not at all. But because it is the truth to me, and that is what many dont understand. No matter what, if you are sincere and you ask me anything, I will speak the truth to you. Now, if I feel a trap, I will let you know and may choose not to "give you my pearls". But, if you dont mind my saying so, you seem genuine, and I really like genuine people. Good. But a true statement is that our thoughts will often accuse us, deceive us, and betray us. In my search to know the desires of my heart, my wants, I found that without a doubt some of my thoughts have been downright evil. It is easy to hit an adversary, much more difficult to love them. Is there more an upside to rage or to love? Yet plenty of "good" people throughout the ages have followed in the footsteps of rage more than love. Not only was the claim made by a human, it is the human that carries the power of the mind, and the heart has power over that. I understand your perception, but if the one true path in my heart is a path of love, then I will stand for that truth with a very clean conscience, as all my hope is in the power of love, not in the intelligence of the mind. And, "no one can know the mind of God, but we have the mind of Christ." Being right about the one true path is not what is important, as even if a mind is convinced he has the one true path, that is not enough to grow in the spirit of love and life. For me, its that life is nothing without love, and no amount of human intelligence, so far, has been able to unite us with their educated ingenius minds. As unification is not an ability of intelligence, but of wisdom. Wisdom is humble, loving, kind, generous, powerful, good, true, ect... and everywhere. But, it cant be taught, it must be revealed, so that no one can boast. Do you believe that loving one another is an irrelevant truth to the unification of human life on this earth? The Gospel, not the bible, is full of wisdom, but again, it must be revealed. Yup, maybe. Seems pretty miraculous by design though, if your looking anyway. Many people live their entire existence with "shit happens". Nothing at all wrong with that, but, it is the only perception they will ever have. Jesus was a pretty powerful figure even if you just look at his influence historically. It is possible, that he was even more powerful than you or I, and he may have known something that went much deeper than what we have been oppressed into accepting as the only truth. That is, he may have had the keys to free us from the prison of this world system and bring us closer to a heaven on earth. I had to re-visit this one. If one day you have the time, id really like to know what messages in the gospel were bad messages? You may have no idea! "We didn't start the fire"

Apparently Why dont you go join a community of salamanders and find out for yourself? Or go ask the godfrogger?? "We didn't start the fire"

Same question I have pondered. Genuineness is about being fair to your conscience, exploring everything in your own mind. The power of faith is underestimated, as it is not a power of ours, but of Gods. The question is how is not having faith an expression of being able to deal with a "difficult reality" more so than having faith? Hard is hard and faith doesnt change that, nor does not having faith. My Sunday morning devotional from Oswald Chambers; it seems to fit in this discussion. yeah, I said what I said because Jesus, and his apostles had great faith, yet they still had to endure the hardships of this world. Everyone has to go through the furnace to be forged in the spirit, but I know you already know that! "We didn't start the fire"

We arent good enough. What was revealed to me is it is our desire for more and more that takes our hearts further away from the truth, that life itself is the miracle and is more than enough. An amputee is not dead, no matter how much pity you may feel for them. I know several amputees. I personally have experience with chronic health problems and have had several surgeries to try and help. My body will persih, so will all of ours, but "life is more than the body". Many people have overcome challenges and in turn have become inspirations to those around them. There are a few skydivers on this website who have faced challenges most will never have to endure, and many of them have found great peace. God is not unjust. Here is a parable of Jesus that I for one found great revelation in. Many use this as "proof" of hell, but it is written as a parable and therefore contains a spiritual secret that can only be revealed... that God is a just God, and you have no one to pity but yourself. 4So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' 25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' You listened, but im afraid you didnt hear. Have you even read the parable of the prodigal son? I suggest you read it first, then get back with me.. Luke 15:11-32. Your analogy does not reflect the truth of the Gospel. Even if one cant accept the truth of the Gospel, he should at least know it. But, I guess thats why us christians are here right? "We didn't start the fire"

Its awesome that your circumstances allow you to do that! When im not contracting, im not on these forums either, but I guess I have to make a living somehow, hopefully soon it will be in skydiving. I agree with this more than you may think. I will admit, I do deny myself things that may obviously be looked at as missing out. Thats one of the worst things about a revelation of God, is that others think you are missing out, and that alone is often a reason people cannot or will not believe. Jesus wept over how little our faith was. Its like a prisoner is finally released after years in captivity, but when the door is open, he would rather stay in prison. To me, thats a bit sad, but, you cant prove to me that is not true either. Yup, for me it was about getting more out of life at the time. I came to that revelation years ago, and it has allowed me to experience a wealth of travel, culture, philosophy ect... skydiving is the greatest community I have found that encompasses an extrodinarily vast diversity of people, with all sorts of incredible experiences and perceptions, all united in similar desires. Skydiving grows on people, and you dont have to be a jumper to be a part of the scene. So, yeah, I wanted to fly, but I was completely unaware of everything skydiving was going to offer, other than the sky... and pleasantly surprised. There are all sorts of different motives for skydivers. For me, its not everything, but sharing a sunset jump with good friends is priceless. Tell me about it. there are things you will learn, and you are held accountable for your words here. Sometimes intent is mis-understood, or even deliberately altered, but I find if you just speak the truth, how can you go wrong? Dont worry about being right or wrong, just speak the truth and let the cards fall. These forums are going to be very addictive for you, especially if you have to work outside of skydiving. God is spirit, life is spirit, life is in us and all around us. Spirituality for me is in that connection. Like a rain drop in the ocean, God is everything to me, and I dont mind saying that because for me, it is the truth. I want more of God, not the world, but I also am very appreciative and extremely humbled by what he has revealed so far. If it is a pursuit of religion, then I agree, as I believe it is a waste of time for anyone to try and earn there way into heaven. If it is understood that Jesus reveals that heaven is within you, and you have actually experienced powerful revelations associated with that truth, then I cant in my own conscience accept that I am wasting life. There is an incredible difference between earning your way into heaven, and heaven revealing itself and pulling you closer. Just out of curiosity though, have you read a gospel? No worries. That doesnt mean you arent on the path to him, and it doesnt mean you are either, just stay open, the reason your undecided is because you dont know. There are many different beliefs on these forums, but there is only one truth in your conscience. You have to be fair to that. Truth is about what is true to you, not what others think should be. This is a great place to hear different perceptions of life, if your listening anyway. "We didn't start the fire"

Sorry man, I didnt say that. I was quoting someone else, but, I still stand by my post. Welcome to the forums by the way Time is not life to me. I dont feel that time missed is the same as time lost, and have a lot to be thankful for without needing more. For me, life is very spiritual, but why would you assume it is less fulfilling? I am interested in hearing your thoughts about making the most of life though? If you have time anyway. "We didn't start the fire"

Much more than fair enough! "We didn't start the fire"

Agreed. I had a hard time with Job. I could see myself being one of the "foolish" friends giving bad advice, and to be honest, I didn't see much wisdom in that book until I read the gospel. The entire book of Job is summed up in these words of its author... He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. "We didn't start the fire"

In your perception, not in mine. "We didn't start the fire"

Same question I have pondered. Genuineness is about being fair to your conscience, exploring everything in your own mind. The power of faith is underestimated, as it is not a power of ours, but of Gods. The question is how is not having faith an expression of being able to deal with a "difficult reality" more so than having faith? Hard is hard and faith doesnt change that, nor does not having faith. I believe it is a true statement to say that there is a death beyond dying, and a life beyond just being alive. "We didn't start the fire"

God is not found through miracles, because simply witnessing a miracle is not enough to find faith. According to the gospel, Jesus didn't perform miracles so that people would find faith, he performed miracles so that people would know he came from God and therefore may find faith (salvation) in his message. However, most people who witnessed the miracles of Jesus did put their faith in him. Peter was asked to walk across the water over to Jesus. He knew by that point that Jesus was the Messiah, but still did not possess enough faith to be doubtless. It is a doubtless faith that saves, and that is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not a reward for righteousness. The gospel teaches that "God is always at his work", and that his work is displayed everywhere. No matter how much you try to convince yourself that God is not real because he hasnt shown you a miracle (that you perceive anyway), it doesnt take away from the truth. That witnessing a miracle is not enough for you to find the faith that saves. 38Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you."39He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. "We didn't start the fire"

"We didn't start the fire"

Apologies. It seemed that your first reply had a little "subtext" to it and I of course responded to that. Im human, im not perfect. But your inquiry is very similar to the one I was replying to and therefore my response is in that longwinded post. I try to teach the Gospel way it was taught to me. Realizing that no man can earn himself into the grace of God is a very powerful truth that even many Christians do not truly understand. Hence all the judgment against others. I dont think it is too far off to believe that only God is good, especially with our perception of what we think good is. As I said in the post, there are many evils that are carried out under the cloak of goodness. I do believe that God created man, but I dont believe that we have the full perception of the true good in God. Its too good that we even doubt its genuineness. Also in the post. You should know by now that I get everything from the spirit of Jesus, and you should at least that there is a real love available to everyone that is expressed through someone loving you so much that they actually died for you... Understanding why is not near as important as believing and having faith in that sort of loves' ability. But according to the Gospel... 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. 16Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" 17"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments." 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' [a quote from the post]... "The only thing worth teaching is that Jesus is the one who “baptizes with the Holy Spirit and with fire”. Its important people get his spirit and not just his words. Ask and you will receive, knock and the door will be opened. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near”. When you’ve prayed a prayer of repentance, accepted the mercy in the blood of Jesus, and left everything in Gods hands, there is nothing left for you to do, the promise completely takes over from there. This is what is meant by “obeying the message”. The questions you guys are asking in regards to a benevolent God allowing evil, and even giving us a knowledge and perception of that evil is a spiritual question. it cant be understood with our perception alone. For example, who perceives their own childs light more than the parent? Im pretty sure most people would give their life for their children, whether or not its actually true is not the point, but the point is that if the child is yours, the perception is different. Until Jesus is yours, you cant perceive his spirit. Another example, a child brings much pain and suffering at times to the parent, but the joys the child brings, from what i have heard anyway, seem to be worth it all. The light that I humbly testify for is so great that I dont care about what evil is being used for, nor do I care what God is doing in the world. All I know is the light is good, and Gods love is worth going through death to find it, keep it, and testify for it. "We didn't start the fire"

Slam. Liquidation sale. Im way out of my league. To the OP... what he said. "We didn't start the fire"

I said man has the knowledge of good and evil, and that none of us are good when compared to God. I said God holds the balance of all things good and evil, but also the truth. You "quoted" me by saying that "God is good, but what he created is evil." Your interpretation is not the truth of my quote, and to be honest, im not smart enough to find my way out of traps. So, what are you really trying to say? "We didn't start the fire"

Sigh. Why are you putting words in my mouth, especially with not even reading the post? And whats with the condescending jab anyway? At least my post was done with sincerity. Im not a lawyer. Im not going to sit here and debate and argue with you. I spoke the truth of the Gospel, and it is that you dont like. Now if you do want to "argue", then find something in my post that doesnt reflect what Jesus taught. "We didn't start the fire"

Ill keep trying. Its just, his post was very inspiring. "We didn't start the fire"

To be honest, I really dont care if anyone reads it. It is a sincere response to what I perceived as a sincere individual. But, it was important, given the questions, to answer them as truthfully as I could. What I dont like is the negative influence that is often present here. But, it still has been a very good way to inspire genuine thoughts in myself at least. But, it also has the "audience" feel to it as well, and while it adds to the character, personality, of the forums, it also has the ability to inspire people into being right rather than speaking the truth. Friends speak the truth to each other, and I dont think we really come close to speaking the truth to each other on here (maybe in some PM's). I know I hold back. I cant speak for everyone. But think about it. When I post something, how do you feel about it? But, you have never even met me, nor do you know anything at all about me, just my faith? Funny in a sad way, but, just as true. But is that my fault? I dont know? If you want to read a very sincere reply, for the topic you still show interest in for some reason, then its there. But, it was also written in front of an audience. So, with all that in mind, it was the closest I could get to truth, with the exception of my testimony anyway. But Jesus warns to be careful who you give that to. So im longwinded. my bad. But lots a people got flaws... believe me, Id rather I didnt have to write so much, but its just me i guess. "We didn't start the fire"

Not true. Christ wasn't giving us how to live in a better afterlife, he was teaching "life to fullest". in fact, he is life. No where in the Gospel did Jesus mention if you live this way on earth your afterlife will reflect that. Rather, it is our faith that inspires the way we live and the life in us. This is a very common mistake in todays spiritual environment. And the entire Gospel and the NT puts a lot of effort into ensuring people know there is a difference (religion vs spirit). It is not by works that one inherits the kingdom of heaven, but by faith in Jesus. Grace is the kingdom, either you know grace, or you dont. If you try to live your life just so that you can get into a "better afterlife" or whatever, then your missing the truth entirely... and I do mean entirely. The "you" is understood as one hopefully. "We didn't start the fire"

You might need a few beers, a printer, and some time for this one. Im not defending it, I am accepting the higher order of nature, the same nature we ourselves are a part of, not separate of. What good is it for me to blame anything I have no control over? What good is blame if not to reveal the truth to the one who cant see it, because they are full of blame? Understanding comes when someone recognizes and realizes their own fault. You may say you have no fault in this regard, but your fault is your blame in this case, as you have no right to blame anything, but still think you do. God is not all about love. He is also very powerful, and he has all the perception of truth. Justice is not something that belongs to us, we think it is, and that alone is one of our major problems. Mercy will only be shown to the merciful. The primary purpose of the truth is to discern what is false between what is true. Just because someone wears a cross and claims the name of Christ, does not mean he is born again in the spirit. Jesus came to testify that what the world does is evil. He exposed the “righteous” not as people of God, but as sons of the deciever, using much of the same reasoning you are ironically enough. Of course not. But many in this world seem to “accept” collateral damage in any war, why would a spiritual war (desire for change) be any different? Im not saying they are collateral damage, just making a point that when we go to war, we will accept collateral damage for our “greater cause” of the idea of democracy. Until we as humans see that is not acceptable, that war is not acceptable, we dont have the right to blame God. Do we? This “war” is not the type you think it is, that is, a war with religion vs religion, this is a war between what is pure and what is false in the heart of man. Its time to start believing in the powers of good and evil. God has proven that the change must come from within the heart of his creation. It must come through a transformation of all minds. I know you’re probably going to be fired up about the “collateral” thing, but check yourself before you do that. There are many dying by the collateral damage we are willing to accept to protect ourselves from the threat of terrorism. This discussion alone (terrorism/threat/war/politics/democracy/freedom) is enough to completely take our minds off the truth. War is still war, whether it is for a “good” purpose, or not. I would think we would be smarter than this by now... of course you already know the answer to that one. Jesus revealed not one of us is good, that there is only one who is good, and he is in Heaven. Anyone who thinks he is good, is sadly mistaken. The only thing that makes us good is Gods grace. I hate to reveal this to you, but you are also not good. When it comes to the righteousness of God, no one is good. This is a big piece of the message that many miss. All man is evil when compared to God. I would love to shout this at the rooftops here in Islam land, but, I would surely be confronted with the decieved and possibly killed. Jesus says be shrewd as snakes and innocent as doves. Im not just going to jump off a cliff without a chute right? When Islam hears the truth, it will be a magnificent day for the earth, as they are full of zeal. Zeal for grace is a good thing, and benefits everyone universally. Instead of trying to push our ideas on everyone else (America is not the only people doing this), we need to start to at least try and imagine heaven on earth. But, for that, we will always need God. God is where the power is. Man cannot govern himself like God can (Im sure many will hate this). The very nature of that trial is doomed to fail and has for as long as we have been around. Sure, some ideas work for awhile, but as soon as power, money, and glory come into the mix, everything goes to shit. Who holds the rich man accountable for anything? Yet it is these rich men who are corrupting the world and justifying that corrouption however they seem fit. The problem is not rich men, the problem is corrupt rich men who are not held accountable in their own hearts and minds. And I have seen more times than not, that it is the rich man who is more susceptible to corruption than the poor man. Its just an observation, but money clearly does do something to people. That is FAR from the Lords mercy. Islam teaches the same process you described. Sura 5 I believe somewhere... it says something like... If an infadel you conquer will not submit to Islam, cut off his hands and feet, ect... if he accepts Islam and commits to regular prayer, fasting, giving to the poor ect... then be merciful because Allah is merciful. That is NOT an example of Gods mercy... because it seems to assume that the Muslim doing the killing does not require the same mercy of God. Jesus has already exposed these hypocrites. That they are just as evil as “the infidel”. In fact, they are the infidel. Ironic isnt it? Yet the deception is so great they will kill in this irony. There is a very interesting scripture in Genesis that explains Islam would be a “wild donkey of a man, and his hand will be against all his brothers, and he will live in hostility towards them”. This is Genesis man. Your really not getting it. God does not need defending, he can defend himself just fine. This is judgement whether you see it or not, Im searching for a judge free heart, and for me, I find, I still judge. Its part of our nature. It definitely feels like im trying, but call it my pacifism if you have to, or cowardes even, but in my mind, loving one another is a good thing that shouldnt require evil strong enough to decieve us into killing one another, but, instead of judging ourselves and submitting at least to the possibility that we cant know everything, it is our pride and separation from God that is keeping us from benefiting much more in life. Unification at the heart level... to where we at least all accept that loving one another is a good thing that is worth treating as a universal truth. Even if I knew everything, if I didnt have love, how much really could I have learned? Grace is the way of the future of life in man, or whatever “vessel” mans body becomes. I dont think life, with all of its miraculous designs and abilities (we’re a pretty intelligent design whether you believe in God or not) is just going to stop here, and vanish into never existing again. It just doesnt make sense to me that life can just die. We dont have any concept of eternity, and we are just going to assume that life just came into being from nothing, and not only that, after it “dies” or vanishes, it will never be able to come into being from nothing again? Not only that, if you or anyone else wants to assume, or believe in without evidence (I guess we cant call that faith?) that this life is all there is, then go ahead, it is only your innocence and your life you cheat out of existence. Im sorry, im getting off track, thats really not important, but, if for some reason anyone wanted just one rational thought of why I at least stayed open to the possibility of a creator, now you have one. But back to what is important. They are not like me at all. They are not like Jesus, who is the salvation of God, not the judgement of man, thats when he will judge a mans heart by his own heart, with the truth. This is more than a conscience thing, because mans conscience is very powerful, and we often underestimate it, but there certainly is a level of “understanding” that a man comes to, that become his principles, thoughts, morals, convictions, but also his peace, his love, his life energy in you want to call it that. But for me, God is my conscience now, but all that means is that I am trying to follow Jesus, it doesnt mean I am sin free, righteous by effort, or a general know-it-all , it just means im trying to live the gospel, because I know it is the desire of my heart. But you want to submit mans consciences (that many dont even believe exists) to more “evolved” theoretical ideas that only take them further away from the truth, that mans destiny is a humble creation. But none of this is up to us, this is just the truth, this was always meant to be, this is the progression of life so far in the universe. At least what we know about life that is anyway. I believe it is spirit, and that it is wisdom, and that pure wisdom is true and always good. Thats curious to me. Life moves with some pretty powerful motions, I really would like to have as much as I can, and still remain humble and grateful, while Im here and aware of it. Heres where I choose that humbleness is a better choice than the pride and ego of human intelligence. Heres where I choose Jesus. Its amazing that we boast about our super intelligence, and destroy our very life source, and not to mention each other?? How smart can we be if we have the weapons to literally destroy one another, and the will as well? Its actually pretty sad that we pat ourselves on the back for our creations and “discoveries” (how can you discover whats always been?) and completely turn a blind eye to the fact that we are going to destroy ourselves, all because of our many prides. Vanity, conceit, ego, toughness, hardness, stubborness, rebellion, denial, and a false sense of strength and control.... all under a God of money, power, and deception because we cant accept the truth that Christ brought.. so sad.. Oh, I can see plenty of basis for that claim in your eyes, because your eyes are blinded to the truth, just like Jesus says, “So that the blind can see and those who see will become blind” (You must be blind before you can see, as that is the power behind revelation) However, I still WILL NOT discard evidence that is true. If I claim I am all about truth, then I had better live by truth right? It is only my own conscience that I would be fooling. I have had plenty against God in my quest for truth. I have a chronic medical condition (10 years now) that I found endless quarrels with God because of. Not only that, there were times I sincerely doubted, never really left, but doubted his very existence. Without going into to more “nonsense” (what many call it anyway), Ill just ask you to believe that I have been more mad at God than anyone or anything else. It is in these moments, that we are speaking truth more than we know, and God loves a pure heart. It is often in this anger that we finally realize, that we dont have the right to be angry, and, we see that we have taken our eyes off of the blessings that we do have. Gratitude is a revelation that often comes through this anger and bitterness. I am far more intrigued by those who feel they have the right to blame God for his plan, but not thank him when his plan reveals blessing after blessing after blessing. This is a testimony to the stubborness and pride of man more so than an argument for the case of “God does not exist”. You cant even find gratitude without having something to give thanks to. We often give thanks for being alive, for life in general, for good things ect.. but rarely do we give thanks for the “other” circumstances... why not? Good does not exist separate of evil, but in the same flow... it is the truth that keeps the balance, and truth is love. So, the truth of good and evil is held in the power of love, which has the ability and desire to love both good and evil. Well Im quite sure he is good, quite sure he has a great plan for his life ect... but what you dont get is that he is also God. He is the very essence of destruction and it is wise to fear him. Have we not seen this side in nature? Nevertheless, it is clear that because you have not humbled yourself before him, he has not revealed himself to you. So always good, but always God. God is justice, and it is “his to repay”. It is falseness he is getting rid of, not sinful man. If one claims to be without sin, he is not a man of truth, no matter how many words he uses to express himself. Think about it, if we are all under grace, sin would not even exist in our perception. God carries the balance of all things, good and evil. We have the knowledge of good and evil, but we did not have the truth until Christ. Well that says it all. The dark ages. Most accept that the end times are only times and signs of the “end”. They dont always see that those times had been brewing since the birth of Christ, yes, but also since the very beginning of all things made. He wasnt teaching that the end is coming only because he did, but that the end was always coming, it was inevitable ever since the beginning. The “atrocities”, are clearly examples of what Christ warned about when he taught the end of the world as we knew it. He said, “Many will kill you and claim they are offering a service to God”. How many have been killed, after Christ, in the name of God again? Still you deny he spoke the truth? Not only that, if this is the warning he gave, and still others kill “in the name of God” (Crusades), how could they be following him? A very bold statement. MLK preached the same thing. Its called indifference, and more than Christians are subject to it. However, I wouldnt assume that the spirit of Jesus was not still working even during this time you claim he wasnt. As I said, a bold statement. And you are showing me more and more that your really not listening to what we are telling you about the separation of the spirit of Christ and the way of religion. If you continue to express how much you dont get that, im going to assume you havent even read a Gospel. This is a very fundamental lesson of the Gospel. Its also very interesting that people blame God for misfortune but do not give thanks to him for the many blessings in their life as well. Jesus addresses your inquiry here, when someone says, “wait, let me go and bury my father, then I will follow you”... Jesus replys, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead”. When someone dies, its best to move on, or you will die with them (I know I dont want my family to die with me). While its not always easy, it is the truth, we must move on. We have to learn how to give thanks in all circumstances, even in death, almost especially in death, this is a gift of peace. I am convicted through your conviction. I like to think I am trying, but how much “control” do I have? You are telling me to do what Jesus did. How can you do that? I would never ask anyone to do that. If that is something they long to do, that is between them and God. As it is, my love for you and the entire world for that matter is extremely weak. Without God I am nothing, it is his will that I submit to, I will just leave it at that. I dont think there is a Christian alive who is not convicted by your conviction here. Want to run out and save the world like Jesus did huh? Then why did Jesus even come? No one could save the world but God. No one else could do what he did. Many have been martyrd for a belief, but none had what Jesus had. Only the Holy Spirit could do what Jesus did, therefore, Jesus is the ONLY one who can give the spirit. The spirit “speaks exactly what it hears”. Jesus has already given the message that saves. If it is not heard through him, why would you expect anyone to hear it through me? It is possible yes. But, its not my purpose, it is one I believe in. So a better statement is that “you will die for your faith”. Im not as interested in how I am going to die, or when, I am more interested in how I am going to live. Life to fullest means hope, love, and pure faith. Ever wonder what it would be like to have pure faith? No doubt at all, just pure faith? Knowing without doubt that life is eternal and you are a part of that. Im not living for life after death man, Im living for life. To me, that is something we may all find is worth dying for. Not only that, and you may not understand this, but I died with Christ. Just as we died with Jesus, we share in his resurrection.... 23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." 24 Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;" Jesus is Hope, and hope is the power of God. Standing for a message that gives hope to the poor in spirit is something I am willing to stand for. If other Christians find it is okay to kill others (gays, abortion docs, or whatever) what makes you think they will listen to me? They are already blinded, and their destruction will be their end because they claim they saw, but clearly did not see. They will follow that hypocrisy to the end, as their consciences could not produce the fruit of the spirit. Jesus speaks of these people...39 Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind." 40 Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41 Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains." Kind of hard to rid oneself of guilt they dont believe exist. No. That is what Jesus claimed, the same Jesus you claim they followed. But it seems to me if you claim they were following the spirit of Christ, then you prove me wrong with the Gospel. Ive already proven they were not, but you still dont agree, so now, you prove me wrong. In fact, anyone here prove me wrong in this regard. Show me how they were following Jesus. You did read the sermon on the mount? Please show me anywhere in the NT where the apostles urge killing, torture, and rape in the name of God. You didnt hear what I said. I said deceptive agendas. I believe the world is under a spirit of deception. It is the nature of evil man. We can entertain evil thoughts with/without knowing it, and claim it is in the “best interest” of God or man. This is going to go over your head im sure, but Jesus calls satan the father of lies. The deceiver. Why certain people continue to “entertain” evil thoughts, I dont know, I believe evil is real, and therefore, just like anything real, has purpose. Do you think I like it? I dont know, depends how deceived I allow myself to get. Some people carry out all sorts of evils in the name of good, do they not? Anyway, deception is something you probably wont understand, becasue, you, like many have a very hard time understanding that evil can take control of you and make you carry out its purpose whether you want to or not. The reason I say evil has purpose is because it is real, and because we are all evil, and it is ONLY in that knowledge that we can know grace. No they are not. Jesus is God, but not everyone knows him. Thats like saying Islam and Jesus are the same. Jesus must be recognized and revealed as God. No pretenders welcome in Christ. We all have to go through the same gate to see Jesus as God. Yes it does. Still not hearing me? You are no longer under the law if you are under grace, similarly, you are no longer under grace if you are under the law. Again, fundamental Christianity, but there are MANY Christians who dont fully understand this as well. Its best those people dont teach, but many of them do anyway. The only thing worth teaching is that Jesus is the one who “baptizes with the Holy Spirit and with fire”. Its important people get his spirit and not just his words. Ask and you will receive, knock and the door will be opened. “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near”. When you’ve prayed a prayer of repentance, accepted the mercy in the blood of Jesus, and left everything in Gods hands, there is nothing left for you to do, the promise completely takes over from there. This is what is meant by “obeying the message”. (john 19:30).When he had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the wineskins will be ruined. No, he pours new wine into new wineskins. Matthew 2:22 There is a difference between abolishing and fulfilling. In the law was a promise that “as it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end”. We are not progressing to the end, but to the beginning. Again, complete change of perception. God is spirit. He doesnt live in the sky. Listen to the words of Bob Marley, “Most people think, great God will come from the sky. Take away everything and make everybody feel high, but if you know what life is worth, you would look for yours on earth, and now you see the light, stand up for your right” An imaginary superpower residing in the sky? Might define some skygods in skydiving, but not God. Forgive me, but God has hidden himself from your eyes because of your pride. How can a man come to God with pride? What does God have to prove to any man? “God opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble” - Perhaps not. However, I for one am constantly listening for wisdom. You have a ton, but you may not see what I see. I cant help that, nor would I if I could. You, just like me, are on your own path, and either you are Gods or your not. Either you are light in the balance, or not. You sound like light, but you cant hear Jesus? This has always intrigued me. You are way underestimating faith. Its not something I can just give up because Im pissed at the way God works sometimes. Its like hearing an “inconvenient truth”. Though it may be inconvenient, it is still the truth. Yes. We are in the end times. It is going to get much worse whether you want it to or not. Famines, Earthquakes, Wars, Brother betraying brother... all this happens as the hearts of man grow colder and as the new earth goes through its “birth pains” Ill reply to this soon. I have given you a scripture in the New Testament by the apostle Paul. If you didnt understand, then how can I make you understand? You want me to explain to you what the zealots did and why? You know you cant have that answer. None of us can. But, they were NOT following Jesus. Take it or leave it. Ill continue to say the same thing. You should probably start studying deception and its power over men who think they are good, and who think they do things for a good purpose. In fact, many Americans need to think about this some more. Most everyone wants to be “good”, but deception is very, well, deceiving. No, you deny, and you will be in denial until you accept that you have no control, that we are all just vessels for the purpose, change, and direction of life. We dont make life special, it is life that makes us special. - Convoluted in your perception. But understanding is about the journey, not the destination (how many times you heard that now :) It is not for you to decide the path of wisdoms revelation of life. However, How so many miss the message of love in the Gospel is way the hell beyond me... I still dont understand how someone can claim to honor Christ, then kill, rape, or torture in the name of whatever. While there is more than enough grace to save these people (as we all can be one), it is not the way of Jesus. This is where America does a bad job representing Christ, but its no wonder that deception would have a foothold in America as well is it? War is not the way of the future, but the future must unfold as it is intended. The meek will inherit the earth after all these war mongers are finished killing one another. Because you havent tasted ANY of his goodness, or at least you havent given him thanks for any of it that is. ( this is an assumption) I told you that I still ask questions, but I do not question his will any longer. This is something I have done plenty of in the past when I was in ignorance. Freethinking? We certainly have a different definition of that, however, I can go from science, art, philosophy, ect... to the spirit, as my mind is not limited to evidence. Seems pretty damn free to me. To me a free thinker is sound in mind, and can search for truth ANYwhere. And that is what you will be seeing when Christ is revealed again, and you may miss the greatest revelation of grace because you wont allow yourself to see. There are plenty of people who have the perception needed to see the change. Even with hell all around us, destruction at the door, life still has the only key to Heaven. Jesus likens heaven to perception... “So that they may be ever seeing, but never perceiving, ever hearing but never understanding, otherwise they would turn, and I would heal them”. Basically, if you saw, you would know, but thats not how this works. Faith first, then you see. The power is in faith not understanding. But I know, you dont like that. Something to keep in mind... Christianity started with one man, and the spirit has been moving and inspiring millions of people willing to give their lives for the message. Id say the change is manifesting quite rapidly to say the least. - Man, you really need to open your eyes a little more. You need to at least read this... the signs dont care if we believe or not. I know you wont like the way that sounds. 5For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Christ,[a]' and will deceive many. 6You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. (Matthew 24:5-7) Nothing in this world is perfect, (or its all just perfect enough to sustain the movement of life) we can believe we know that. But there is such a thing as being perfected in love. Love is the revelation of the future, its not just a word or an emotion, but an ability that we clearly have access to. Its a revelation of the wisdom in life. Just cause we have access to it doesnt mean we know it and doesnt mean we can get others to know it as well. But yes, this revelation is growing, uniting, changing our perception of it by the day. Many are getting it despite the chaos and problems in the world. Many are suffering simply because they testify to its power in Christ. The same power you claim doesnt even exist. You are not alone. Probably more like an EMP, but it wouldnt make any sense to blame Oppenheimer for that would it? Refer to the words of Jesus again, “A time is coming when people will kill you and think they are offering a service to God”. Please stop comparing my “outlook” to the hypocrites. I accept that I am a hypocrite, but its that very acceptance that helps me keep an eye on it in my heart and persevere in truth. We can blame it on Gods purpose (or not) all we want, its still going to happen... and not because Jesus said so, but because the world is changing and the earth seems to be changing right along with it. Do you think Jesus is going away? It is his earth, its always been his earth. This is the kingdom of grace, the place where life makes itself known to itself. You see Jesus as the problem, you need to see him as the cure for the twisted, hypocritical, falseness in the world that will be here until ALL peoples know Jesus as truth, until he comes again in the future. I know its deep man, but this is the Gospel, and the Gospel seemed to be what you were inquiring about. We can only hear what we are meant to hear anyway. Your missing a great revelation. The revelation of the creators heart manifesting in the design of nature. Ever scuba? You say you study the physical world, well I study nature. Not with books mind you, but I just observe it, take it all in, relate to it, and understand that I too am a part of it. There is something awesome going on in between the lines if you can just let go and bask in the glory of it all. Now you will say that you sincerely enjoy nature as well, and I wont doubt that one bit. But seeing nature for nature and seeing God in every detail are two very different perceptions. This is not at all boasting, but I have seen both. Gods is much better, and I will testify to that with all my heart because it is the truth to me. Because you dont know him you say this. If you saw you would know, but thats not faith. The blood of Jesus spells it all out, and I am trying to relay this message as best I can, the way to grace is by faith. You cant just believe in it, that does no good, you’ve got to be birthed into it and able to grow with it. That takes a seed (life), food, water, and light, and those are spiritually discerned, you cant find them without faith. You cant even be taught in the lessons of Christ without faith. You can listen, but you cant hear. You can see but you cant perceive. You need faith to grow in God. If that sounds too coincidental, your still not hearing. Dont get me wrong, your listening, but your not hearing. You need the spirit to discern the spirit. One has to ask with as much sincerity and faith as can be mustered. If only he would reveal himself to you, then you’d know just what I am saying right now. Thats one of the incredible things about the Gospel, it is a universal language who’s very design is to unite the earth. Im not trying to go to confession everyday and pray for forgiveness “after a sin”. Thats forgiveness, thats not grace. Grace is the promise. Thats where the strength is, and that is only found by faith. No one can give you faith, you cant buy it, you cant earn it, but it is available for everyone, not by our “ability”, but by the spirit of Jesus Christ. Believe me man, this is putting myself out there more than you know. The stuff I HAVE (my bones are on fire) to testify to will be heard whether I speak or not. Im not trying to get you to understand anything, that is what revelation is for and why it is such a great desire of mine personally, it is unique to every soul and incredibly awe inspiring to the individual, sacred, indescribable, and always true. I know you dont really like to hear about the revelations ive had, and just talking about them makes me feel as if im boasting, but if you talk to me long enough, I dont know... lets just say you would know I was at least hoping I was counted with Christ. But believe me, the words of the “righteous” sting me like death sometimes. I dont think they truly realize how deadly their words are. Again, deception. But they do help sharpen faith. Thats why I always try to speak the truth as best I can, and why I know I cannot appear righteous before God, no matter how much faith I have. But there it is again, the touch of grace. Nothing is impossible for God, including loving you. If thats a bad God, then I dont want to know what a good God is in this world. Jesus likens the “good God” to money. “You cannot serve both God and money. Now, I like money, I want money, I work for money, but I dont love money more than God, and my eyes are open to the fact that it is the love of money (Greed) and power that corrupts us. Money is not a tool for survival, but rather a dependence that leads to destruction and blindness. The world certainly hates to hear that. Take that for what its worth. Jesus does this more than you may know. There is no one righteous but God. (Gospel) In Christ, we are only made righteous by his spirit, not by our strength. It is only through his love for us that we are considered even close to righteous. There is a truth in the Gospel that people dont like to hear right now. That we are enslaved to sin. We are slaves to the conscience and the desires of the flesh, the only thing that truly frees us from this is grace, and repentance is the way. I am sorely convinced that as soon as people realize they dont desire sin as much as they desire the spirit of God, sin will be seen for what it is... a distraction, a prison, and not the way of the future. Again, if the whole earth is under grace, how could there be sin? But we dont like the way he is establishing this truth, again I ask, who are we to think we can do better? Teaching (revealing) faith to something that doesnt know faith, takes life, and I know I cant design something greater than life. Now I find it very interesting that when you tell someone to do something, like stop sinning, we rebel by our very nature. But, when we truly see the benefit in our life, we no longer rebel, because understanding takes over. Command someone to obey and they will rebel, teach them to trust, and obeying actually becomes a benefit. Trust is the lesson, not sin, and I trust God. Sin does not know love (love cant be separated from itself), trust does. We dont have to wait for hope any longer. It is available for everyone. Not even human intelligence or time can un-crucify Jesus. His spirit is getting stronger as the world gets colder. The light is already shining and “the darkness has not understood it”... its out with old, in with the new. If you dont get anything Im telling you, at least know now that you do not have to wait for hope. No one does. This is not our only chance. Im sure people who have had a great go at life so far would like to think that, but what about those who clearly are less “fortunate”. The greatest thing you can give the poor is not money, but hope. Its too bad that the ones who do have more find it so difficult to have faith in hope. I would rather be poor with God than rich without him. Your words are not the revelation of life, but of death, but, I am glad that you have such a great life, I just cannot accept your words as truth, and, you dont have to either. Now you will say that you have hope, but a true hope is one that inspires life, and that takes faith. You have to be certain that you have already what you hope for. A life giving hope is different from just hoping you arent going to die, or hoping you get something you want. The hope that is sure is the one that gives life. I will respond to this later as well. But it still boggles me how people can assume Christians are not held accountable for their actions. I continue to hear this on these forums, and it doesnt make any sense to me. If it is an action to repent or perish with all evil, then surely I am held accountable for taking that action or not. But again, I will reply to this more soon. Once again. I am not Catholic. I dont buy into the confession thing because grace is a spirit. It is not the spirit of forgiveness, but the spirit of everlasting love. Simply understanding you are forgiven is not enough to know grace. It takes faith to know grace and sin is a big part of it. No one who truly knows grace desires to keep on sinning, because the truth that frees is now known, but grace, by its very nature of promise, will stay with us forever and prove itself in spite of/because of our weaknesses. So then how much power does sin have over grace? In fact, grace (the promise) only grows stronger in failure and perseverance. - yes, but we have had truth longer than that. Those who belong to truth listen to Jesus. Im sorry you dont like that. Brother, you never gave it a chance. You, just like most, assume you are not on the side of truth because of all the hypocrites you have run across. I was also raised in the church until I was 9. Parents divorced and my path was “changed”. I followed my path all the way, deep into sin, to the point of almost giving up on God completely. Funny how sin inspires this. But, for some reason I could never give up completely, but I did get very close. When someone gives up all faith, then this life is the only reward they will ever have...”They have received their reward in full”. Sin wise, there is not much I have not done. All of us have our own paths, and they twist and turn ect... but to say I was not on the path to Christ simply because I left the church and followed sin, is most certainly not the truth. There is a song that expresses something similar. “God bless the broken road, that led me straight to you”. Not only that, Jesus gives the story of the Prodigal son. While that story did speak to me, I fully understand that any and all who have come to Jesus in repentance, no matter how much they “sinned”, are the prodigal son as well. No one stayed with God, we all left and were called back by his grace. We are all the Prodigal son. This is also often forgotten by the church. You gave me a definition of free thinking straight from the dictionary. Told me it matched the closest to yours. To me, its like giving me a definition of love from the same source, that was my point. There are many defintions for one word in the dictionary, different uses in our language ect.. but you found the one that resembled yours the closest, I gave you mine. Just because it is not in the dictionary does not make it an invalid definition. I have been accused on here several times for changing definitions of words. I dont change them, I use them in ways that are not always understood, but I am still giving you my truthful definition. To say its not valid because its not in the dictionary that way is a bit frustrating, so, I use the example of “I dont find my defintion for love in the dictionary”, and that seems to help make the point. I asked you “Are the educated considered to be more free in thought than a child in wonder”. That is still my answer. My “platform” for this definition, is that this is a rhetorical question, and seems like common sense to me. It seems to me that one persons free in thought is anothers’ egotistical imprisonment. Perhaps freedom of mind is not bound by natural law, evidence, or even definition, but is also free to search outside of those borders? It is just a bit egotistical for people to assume they are more free in thought than a spiritual believer who is not bound by the “limitations” of those who only respond to evidence. You do not only respond to evidence, and you are proving that to me more and more. Listening is the first step to hearing, and you appear to listen quite well. There are really good technical guitar players, but its the ones who play from the heart who are not bound by certain scales and patterns. The best ones, IMO, are ones who are connected to both the heart of music and the theory. The mind, to me, is the same way. There are some who live by the heart and feel their way through, some who demand evidence to believe in anything true (whether it is or isnt true), and some who grow in both. Neither of them are more or less free in thought, unless they themselves believe they are more free than another (egotistical imprisonment). We can ALL benefit from one another. Jesus says “Wisdom is proven right by all her children”. This of course, was after the Pharisees faulted him for “eating” and “drinking” with sinners. I already gave you the scripture earlier. So for someone to have a website and call it one for freethinkers, but deny that anything can be found in a spiritual faith, not only do I believe they are missing out, I cant see how anyone can claim they are more free in thought when they cannot or will not even bring themselves to search in the real realms of faith, or even listen to those who have, and continue to find revelation there. So the more I hear this, the more I will reply, because it is simply not a true statement. I have been confronted on this many times in these forums. I respond with truth. It wasnt you, but somehow (probably my fault) we fell into it again and I still believe saying someone is not a free thinker just because they have faith is a false statement. Perhaps a better statement is that people are different in the way they think? Its not a defensive statement, its just the truth, and I didnt learn it anywhere but through inspiration and revelation, and we are ALL part of it. Remember, listen for truth, dont listen for me. The truth says wisdom is found everywhere, unfortunately, many take that to say, that wisdom is only found in those with PhD’s in educational (theological ect...) studies. Thats why they continue to put those people at the head of our churches. But God is clear about this... Grace is the teacher, and “Christ apportions grace”. In no way am I saying that PhD/ Roman Catholic churches ect... cannot teach grace, I am only saying that is not the only place one can learn it. Many in America seem to think otherwise. This is another classic flaw in our thinking right now. Truth is the teacher, not education. Did you know that grace is even found in the “wicked”? Try teaching that truth to people who believe otherwise. I also have scripture for that as well. (Isaiah) Allowing grace to teach is also about learning the beneficial desires of righteousness in our lives, a righteousness that is only by faith, not by works or even human effort... “SO THAT NO ONE CAN BOAST.” No, you have been much more respectful, kind, and sincere than myself. I am still human and very weak. I will mis speak, mis understand, assume ect... but I will still continue to try to be as truthful as I can be. This knowledge means nothing to me if people dont understand the only way to Jesus is by faith. You have to ask for his spirit. This is his Gospel, not mine. Im going to try to teach it the way it was taught to me, otherwise even if the revelations were understood, they have no power without the spirit of grace in Jesus. Repentance is the way to forgiveness, and grace is the way to to it all. “Not by your strength, but by my spirit, said the Lord” Its important you get that at least. This is only a he said she said if you dont hear what I am telling you (therefore argumentative). The difference is between the letter and the spirit, they are not the same thing. They were following the letter, probably much more deception (money, power, greed ect..) than your willing to give credit for, but they definitely were not following the spirit of Christ. Perhaps calling what you said naive is not the right word. Ignorant is a more fair word, although Im sure you wont like that one either. But to be clear, I am not calling you ignorant, but what you said, as you seem to not know the difference between the letter and the spirit. If you think I did not live in ignorance, you are badly mistaken. I stayed away from the church and the bible because of what I saw it doing to others. Because i saw the hypocrisy, I did not want to be a part of it. However, when I finally read a Gospel (at 27yrs old), I found the truth myself, and now no one can touch the spirit within me, because I know it does not belong to me, but to God. It is his spirit, not mine. But, he shares it with us. This alone is a magnificent revelation and why we are allowed to call God our friend. Not only that, God is the spirit of friendship, therefore, his spirit unites naturally. If there is no unity, there is no spirit. I know many “denominations” hate to hear that, well tough, its the truth. There is not Im this, your that, ect... there must be unity, or we are only fooling ourselves. To me, the Pope needs to strip off his gown, dress in sackcloth, and present himself not as “his highness” but as one member in the body of Christ, just one member, not more or less special than any other, not more or less sinful. Im not saying he does not know grace, but if he is “his highness”, then what is Jesus? Did not Jesus wash the feet of his disciples? Has the Pope offered to wash anyones feet? The Catholic church has alot to learn, I hope they will listen and hear the truth whenever and by whoever presents it to them. But i do not denounce them either, as I know that Jesus apportions grace and it is silly to think there is no grace in the Catholic church. Not only that, that is a judgment I cannot make despite all the evil that has manifested through it over the years... “In the name of God”. If Jesus was on the offensive against any relgious movement, it was against hypocrisy. That is also clear in the Gospels, but he did not say they wouldnt be around either. - Funny enough, me too. And trust me, if my mind is not sound, these arrows of death can have a great impact, but i am now wearing “armor”. As it is, I know the truth. The accusers are no better and no more good than I, but I still try to love them even in their ignorance. I know. Most of the time no one feels like they are judging anyone, but it is still happening because the ones who judge do not judge themselves in the same light. I have absolutely no doubt that you feel like you are not judging me. As I have been saying, our meeting is one of sincerity, and that is not always an easy thing to come across. It may have been wrong for me to assume that, or write it or whatever, but, I did write it, so, it was done with sincerity at the time. But again, I know you feel as if you are not judging me, that is more than enough for me to see your sincerity and purity. Regardless, we all judge, its learning how not to that is the pursuit. I would say the difficulty of balancing the incredible “inconsistency” of life. There is a balancer, neither of us are it. Your searching for worldly answers to spiritual questions, that is much more than difficult, it is impossible without the spirit. But then you may say that I am wasting my time? Dont know, dont care. I am testifying to what I know, thats it. I cant make anyone hear anything. Yes they are. You have rejected them so far. Its not fair to yourself to stop listening at least, which is why you are continuing to engage in these conversations. Your a glutton for truth (sorry about the glutton part) and you will NEVER stop searching for it, that seems pretty clear. I always say, as long as you stay open, truth will find you. No its not. Your sincerity is absolutely refreshing and even more so appreciated. You may have no idea. Tricks dont really bother me that much, but they do help me discern sincerity from mockery at times. If someone is not even in the position to listen, how can they ever hear anything? Still, I continue to speak the truth from my heart, if that finds me in a trap, then so be it, my conscience is clear. I am not intelligent, nor educated, I am only speaking the truth of what I know. Even if you believed in God it does not mean you would have faith. Faith is the truth and God is revealed in that truth. Either you belong to God or you dont. Now you will argue that those people had faith in their God as well. But, the true God of heaven is the God of grace. Not believing in God is understandable as your trying to “sneak” in anyway that way, it is understanding grace that that transcends Christ. Something that many do not understand. If I boast in anything, its that I know Jesus is the Christ. If this alone makes me self righteous in the eyes of others, then I have to expect this, as Jesus was crucified by that very perception. Still if I boast, I will boast that Jesus is the Christ. I know you say you dont believe in God, any God, I got that. But do you agree that there are many things that can be considered a God of peoples minds? Many people worship money, and Jesus likens money to a God. Makes sense to me. I think we should stop relating God to an “invisible superpower in the sky” and start to see that anything can be considered “a God”, if it has power over the heart and mind of the one “worshiping” it. So, what is the definition of God? Something that someone believes in? Something that someone worships? Something that someone obeys, listens to, follows? What? Jesus teaches that God is spirit. That also makes sense to me. “We know when we understand almighty God is a living man”. Crazy to think that man has all the keys to carry the spirit of the living God... But look at these words from Jesus... - 33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." 34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp. Of course you do. We all want to know more, but the question is how much is enough? Grace is more than enough for me, Im trying to share that with you. “Questions of science, science of progress, did not speak as loud as my heart”- “The Scientist” Coldplay. Pretty much word for word how it happens when you meet Christ... The more you know, the more you desire to know and it clearly does develop into more. More than I have been able to explain anyway, and im a songwriter (humbly I say that). The “more” is exactly what I am testifying for, as many on this forum are as well. There is so much more in Jesus than any of us even know. He is life, and life has all the worth. Thats too bad. I do understand. Love does strike though. When it does, you know it is much more than an emotion, it is life to the fullest, and it is exactly why we are here. Life lives through us. I personally wouldnt call what you call lust, I would call it an infatuation, and it definitely is a big part of love. There has to be a flame, a spark, a fire first... that is just the nature of what love desires. It desires to be recognized... or, “aware” of itself. Love has nature, and it loves to love. Thats because I completely underestimated how much time and effort you put into those posts. That is my fault. I was too quick to share and not too quick to listen. So I printed out all your responses, gave them more attention and responded as best as I could in kind. I apologize for sort of “blowing you off” or “deflecting” your inquiries. Not being too hard on myself, but I am a bit ashamed that I didnt at least listen to your posts more carefully. Apologies. I also dont claim to be an authority on the Gospel. The first post (I believe) you sent me said, “wow, you really like to talk about the Gospel”. I try to live it as best I can because I know the rewards it brings to the heart. I am not an authority. God is the authority, and I am always open to rebuke. I love the fact that I can listen to someone I dont “like” and still hear wisdom from them. Or someone who is 13 yrs old or whatever. I know the truth, that wisdom is found everywhere. Everywhere is most certainly not vague to me at all. It means everywhere. Not quite. There is a difference between knowing the “answers” and knowing the truth. I seek to know more about Jesus. I want to grow spiritually, not in worldly knowledge. This makes us a bit different yes, but I am not going to discard anything that is true. That would go against what I believe, that pure wisdom is true. So, teach me truth, and I will at least listen for truth. Teach me theory, and I have interests that fulfill me much more than that. Like your connection with the physical world, I found a deep connection with the spiritual earth and the natural earth is definitely in that connection. Most definitely. We are what we are, and we are all a part of the same universe. Thinking we are separate is also another flaw in our thinking right now cause that is definitely not the truth. It was an unfair statement. Its distracting anyway, and I shouldnt have said it. My bad. I can see how you feel like that, and that keeps you open, but personally, IMO, I dont think anyone can be as objective or impartial as the truth. Although, it certainly is a pursuit of mine... and yours as well it seems. I think if man could be objective, we would all have the absolute truth, all of us. As pure wisdom is so divine that it is impossible to argue against, much less fight and kill over. Unless of course there is some other agenda besides the search for truth that is. In most cases, there has been. Its just a bummer that all these people are sharing their testimonies and still people are not hearing (not just talking of the forums). Some are though. Me personally, I dont know what else to do. So I just keep sharing and trying to grow in the spirit. Its easy to assume no one is listening or even cares, harder to see sometimes that is clearly not the case. Homosexuality is not the problem, in fact, sin is not at all the problem. The “problem” is a lack of faith in Gods grace. Fighting over what is sin and what is not is absolutely pointless, as we all have sin. It takes our eyes off the truth that we are just as evil as everyone else, and begins the “finger pointing”. It is the reason the pharisees accused Jesus of being a sinner because he was “hanging with sinners”. Its all dirt and crap, and it will take our eyes off the truth, because as we accuse others, we are being accused with the same conviction we use. “For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” (Matt 7:2) No one will find heaven simply because they are “sin free”. Faith finds heaven and these words of Jesus are very powerful... - 7 But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8 When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; 10 in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; 11 and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. 12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. That is a sad thing. Because the revelations ive had (cant speak for everyone) are the greatest things I have. I have no reason to lie to you. God is light, God is spirit and the revelations of those qualities of God are absolutely magnificent. Most certainly the greatest thing I have ever been a part of. But, even with me saying this, most hear.. blah blah blah. And that is why it is sad. But again, I understand. “Always hearing, but never understanding, always seeing but never percieving.” Otherwise, you would know just what I and many are talking about and I believe you would be just as excited about talking about it as well. My faith is based in the spirit of Jesus. The bible is the testimony of wisdom to man, the spirit is not given through testimony alone, it must be asked for. After the spirit revealed itself with power, the testimonies no longer can testify for the spirit, rather, the spirit itself will testify for itself. Im sorry, but there is much you dont understand if you are still linking the Old Testament with the New. Jesus said, you cannot pour new wine into old wineskins, otherwise the skins will burst, and both the wine and the skins will be ruined, no, instead you pour new wine into new wineskins and both the wine and skins are preserved. This is more than enough of a “citation” that you are looking for, but it too is also spiritually discerned. Asking about them is great, but just asking about them is not enough to understand them. You’ll more than likely just take that as a deflection and bury it, but, it is the truth. You cannot understand grace without the spirit of grace. A flaw in the revelation of grace? Why? Grace must be revealed, there is no other way. And if you do find some other way to grace, like through human intelligence, it still will not be understood, as grace is only given through a revelation from God. Revelation is the only thing powerful enough to make the “blind” see. I know you dont like to hear that, but it is the truth of the Gospel. In fact, everything I have written here is the truth of the Gospel. I still challenge anyone to prove otherwise. If what i am saying is not the truth of the Gospel, then let that person chime in and enlighten us. Feel free to print out everything and bring it to your pastors, theologians, priests, professors, and whoever else you like. Like I said, its not my Gospel. You got me. Im not actually interested, but that doesnt mean I wont listen. My interest are spiritual by nature. I have seen many people get excited about science. I love to see excitement in anyones eyes. The knowledge I have does not contradict truth. If it is true, I will listen. If I hear something, I will tell you. If I find it does completely contradict what I have found in Christ, I should be able to tell you and you should be able to test that contradiction with what you know. Overall, it is not knowledge I seek, but wisdom. And as I said already, wisdom is found everywhere. So far I have gathered plenty of reasons (knowledge) you find it virtually impossible to believe in God, but the wisdom I hear from you is in your kindness, sincerity, hunger, openness, and willingness to express the truth without agenda (teach with impartiality). Your interesting to say the least. I am a believer that inspiration is a big part of the movement of wisdom. The inspiration of two sincere individuals speaking truth as best they can is a good way to learn from one another. Truth is the movement of wisdom over the earth, and therefore, in the universe. Truth is the beginning of all existence, the higher power, the thing that holds everything together, the depth and beyond, way beyond our full comprehension. That is, we can only go to the gates of wonder, we cannot go beyond them. The beyond them is eternal and limitless in power, life is an eternal energy. There is constant re-birth, and the heart of the universe burns with a light so bright, we cannot even recognize its glory with our own eyes. There is no question that God is love, because if you’ve ever been in love (or come close even), then you know there is light all around it. It reveals its glory in moments that seem so unbelievably and deloriously good, that it can completely destroy our faith in its genuineness. Thats sad isnt it? That something so great is often missed because we cannot or will not believe in its power. That someone or something can love so much that that love is actually questioned as whether or not it is genuine. So sad. You dont have to look real hard to see that we humans are very “hard” beings that dont fully understand the depths and powers of this so called emotion that seems to be the very desire of most hearts throughout the history and evolution of the mind of man. That is, we are very weak in our understanding of love, and we have so little faith, and so much power, that we actually reject loves greatest revelations because of the mis-use of that natural combination (little faith, great power). In a sense, its faith that is our desire, but its a lack of faith that makes us reject our greatest desire. So, we are keeping ourselves blinded by our own pride, judged by our own mind, and condemned by our own heart and consciences, as the heart is given life through the desire of love, and dies through the death of it. Faith is the way, and faith is an action. We must repent and become born again, or, your right, this world will be our only “reward”, and only revelation. The biggest question for me is why. The only thing I have found so far, is because life is not about us at all, its about God. Im sure you’ll have plenty to say in “rebuttal”, but, Ill print that out and start over and over until the inspiration starts to fade. I think ive always followed inspiration to be honest. When my inspiration starts to fade, I only get more hungry. "We didn't start the fire"