rynodigsmusic

(mark 14)It is one of the Twelve," he replied, "one who dips bread into the bowl with me. 21The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." This is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. This is an example of what it means to betray Jesus. Luke 22 Jesus answered, "I tell you, Peter, before the rooster crows today, you will deny three times that you know me." This is denial out of fear. Jesus built his church on Peters heart. You can deny Jesus with words, but his love is much more pure than ours. He knows those who are his and those who are not. If ever one loved Jesus, he loved them back. If ever one loved God, he loved them back... thats what this is all about. There are those who love God but do not know Jesus... yet. "We didn't start the fire"

I dont know about the metaphor, but Jesus is my friend and your friend as well, but you continue to hate him for some reason? Or should I use the word strongly dislike instead? Time will tell if what is being said is true or not, but, from what I have seen, more people than not who have turned to Christ have found something they loved more than what they "left" behind. There are complete perception changes and therefore the world they knew becomes even better, yet, nothing on the outside (in the world and on the earth) has changed much. Not only that. I have seen and experienced exhibitions of the spirits power, this kind of love is sought after more than most are ever willing to admit. It will soften the hardest of hearts and even in a scientific view, the amount of emotional fulfillment alone is enough for life to have seen it as a very good thing to lifes existance. Since we know life changes the bodies of that which it inhabits to adapt for survival (I dont believe survival is the sole purpose, but scientists do) why is it so far off to believe that life would also make radical changes in the human mind (our best survival tool) to adapt to the ever desirable and inevitiable peaceful earth? "We didn't start the fire"

Because you dont seem to be a believer? If you were a believer you would either believe in God and love him, or believe in God and hate him. All that which does not love God is being removed from the revelation of life. The future is full of light, and darkness has served its purpose. There is something awesome going on in the balance... sort of like life is taking one deep breath and changing everything for the better. Jesus is the exhale. "We didn't start the fire"

this is the prophesy of the complete destruction of evil for the new way of the spirit. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is when someone knows the Holy Spirit and speaks against him. Not when someone doesnt know him. This is clear in the Gospel. It is important you get this. Sorry to butt in. "We didn't start the fire"

I think it should be avoided, but I have myself been involved in one. But, to be honest, it is an argument of this world. My quest is to not be concerned about anything but growing closer to Jesus. Matt 13:22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, butsee to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. 39She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. 40But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!" 41"Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, 42but only one thing is needed.[f] Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her." In regards to Ron. That is who you are speaking of yes? I dont have to know anything about him. He loves Jesus. For me this is more than enough. Not only that, believe it or not, he loves many of you on this forum as well. We all have things in our personalities ect... that are not so desirable for other personalities, but it is the heart that matters most. I for one am glad I am becoming a part of this forum, but, I also want to improve my skydiving skills as well, and i do see it probable jumping with a few of you. I will always seek to be a friend to everyone, but I am still a believer. this life is about letting go... letting go of everything and living fully with the love of God. To me anyway. I can understand your frustration as I am not giving you the answers you have in your head (seemingly), but this is what I believe, and as I said earlier, the Gospel more than affords me the freedom to do so. "We didn't start the fire"

You do see that we are agreeing here right? At least on our definitions of religion, with the exception of a few insignificant semantics anyway. Not at all Ironic in the way you describe it here (your seeing through a worldly eye). It is Ironic the way I described it though, that the zeal of the Jews is not only why they were chosen (prophesied), but was so "Inflexible" that they couldnt recognize Jesus, who was/is the God they were so zealous for. I called your original perception wordly because it is, not out of arguments sake. I, nor any spiritually connected Christian, will accuse the Jews of deicide. They easily represent any one of us, including you. Any one of us could've have held a nail, or intertwined a thorn branch, or spit on Jesus... any one of us. The truth tells us to examine our own hearts and minds and keep a keen eye on budding hypocrisy and bitterness. This is the exact reason I cannot judge anyone... ever. I am just as guilty and I dont deserve Gods love anymore, or anyless than anyone else. I have a saying that has served me well, "The only one who is not a hypocrite, is the one who admits he is one." Everyone is a hypocrite as everyone carries a connection of some sort with lies. We have all lied, and we will continue to lie. Sure, we have incredibly soothing ways of justifying them, but that doesnt hide the truth. No offense, but you basically just repeated what I tried to explain in the last post. I know who and what relgions and religious people are capable of. I may not spot them immediately, but my heart is what tests and I try to follow that as best I can. Of course, all the while examining myself for hypocrisy. You can call it condescending if you like, but that is not at all what it is. The truth is that you are looking for me to be condescending and that is why you feel it. Im not directing anything at you. I dont even know you. You seem sincere and you and I do not believe the same things. There is no reason to get frustrated or angry is there? I am not who you think I am, am I? If you read ALL my posts, I make a strong effort to ensure that I am on the same level as everyone else in regards to who we are as humans. We all have life, that makes us all the same. However, I still believe in good and evil, and I cannot agree with what I cannot agree with. Im a believer man, thats our main difference, try not to allow yourself to think I am condescending just by what I believe. I have to testify to what I know. I owe that to myself. I have to speak the truth as best I can. But, I dont have to tell everyone everything because Jesus warns me not to. For instance, I know you have good freinds, right? You tell your friends much more than you tell a forum right? Jesus says if you give your heart to someone you have to be careful, because they may turn and tear you to pieces. There are people I am fully truthful with in regards to my heart, but, in regards to the truth in the Gospel, that is what I know, and that is all I have to contribute here. So look at it. It is what I know and the very truth of who I am that attracts the negative energies from others, but my heart, hopefully, is still being fashioned into learning how to love everyone the way Jesus did/does. Im my growth towards God, I find resistance in this world. In my quest for peace and love, I am accused almost every step of the way. this isnt a pity party by any means, its just the truth. If I sound self righteous, Im not, Im a sinner, if I sound like a know it all, im not, Im just a guy who was enlightened to life by the promise of Jesus. I dont have an evil agenda, I only desire to share and help others understand things they may have never thought of before. Also, I am always listening for wisdom and desire to grow in extreme humbleness so that I can present this Gospel as it is intended to be presented, as it was presented to me. Im sorry about all that, but it seems it had to be said, hopefully you can accept it impartially. Listen for the truth, dont listen for me, in otherwards. It appears so, for you, yes. This is where it gets VERY slippery. For me, I rest in grace and desire fully to grow away from the law, which brings death, and closer to the spirit, which brings life. Let me be more clear for you. Respectively. I do not believe homosexuality is immoral. I do not believe it is enough to keep the love of God from entering the heart. I do not believe that an adulteress should be murdered, or a sinnner should be separated even more by my toungue. IF someone has a problem with me accepting fully the promises of grace then that is a problem with themselves. You included. If this is slippery for you, then seek greater understanding. The law given through the old testiment is a religious law. The only law that is spiritual is the law of love. Gods law is perfect in that through this law he gives not death, but life. Read romans and you may get it. Consider this. Knowing what I know now about God (though little, very sacred) and all the pains and sufferings my path led me down as I clawed my way through all the lies to find the truth, I would go through it ALL again to find what I found. If I wasnt so human and weak, I would offer myself on national TV to be killed so that anyone else may find what I found. You may consider this condescending, but again, that is in you. I am speaking the truth. As it is, God does not call us to do what he did, he did it for us so that we would have life to the fullest. I would not ask my brother, whom I dearly love, to do something I wouldnt want to do myself, at least I hope not. I would rather, out of my love for him do what I could to ensure the love we had grows stronger. Whatever that takes, and whatever that makes me. God is not different, and he proved it when he took the blunt of the worlds rejection of the Gospel that brings life to the living and the dead. This sounds foolish to you im sure, but it may not, you may understand some of it, i dont know, but again, its not desgined to be condescending. The spirit has clearly revealed the power is in extreme humbleness. Jesus, who is GOD, washed the feet of his disciples to show that the leader, the King, the truth, is humbleness, and servantry inspired by love. Im not asking you to see what I see in regards to sin (homosexuality is the topic on hand for now... there are many more as you know), you wont be able to see that without Jesus Christ. Im asking you to understand that I dont believe what you believe or what the religious church believes, and the Gospel, clearly affords me freedom from the law you and many quote. This doesnt mean that I dont believe in sin, it just means that I know what sin is now and what its purpose truly is. No one would EVER find grace without sin. Your going to have to dig a little deeper if you want to try and understand me. But again, we have already established on this forum that revelation will not come through reason, rather reason comes through revelation. Until you have Jesus, this will not make sense... unless of course you are closer to God than even you may know. Nor for me. There has always only been life. Is this not apparent in my posts? You feel frustrated and border boiling at times, well how to think it feels to know something and say it over and over again with as much heart and sensativity as is possible all the while people on one side calling you an idiot brain defected biggoted lunatic (paraphrasing) and on the other side people calling you the spawn of the father of lies? Jesus is very clear in the Gospel about where life is. He says let the dead bury the dead, and do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will take care of itself ect... there is much Christ teaches about life, but the greatest thing he revealed was that life is LOVE first. If we are promised eternal life, then eternal means just that. It means we have been a part of the flow of life since the beginning. You want some intrigue? Study the origin of LIFE. Where has science gone on that journey again? They claim the truth, but know knowthing about iife... why? Because life is a miracle. Life is where the wonder and the power is. Its not some place you go when you die, that is so very clear in the Gospels man. You have read them right? It fascinates me how so many incredibly educated people will read thousands of pages on philosophy and doctrines (how many read the divinci code?) but they wont take the time to read a 3 hour Gospel that promises eternal life to all those who obey it? Pride. Im not saying you havent read it, just making a point. I am not Islamist brother, I am a follower of Jesus. My hearts desire is to stand firm for the Gospel becasue I found a very strong love and connection with Jesus Christ... with God. My desire is to ensure people know the truth of grace. It is this desire alone that killed Jesus. I cannot walk away from this faith because I wont. Does it scare me, absolutely, but it doesnt mean it is not the truth. Life is what is important to me, not what I am or what Im doing while I am alive. you may have to dig for the difference. I am just going with flow. The world is what is going mad and growing in hardness of heart. I have to be honest with myself. If Jesus warns that many believers will be put to death and persecuted, then what am I suppose to assume or prepare for? I will not give my love away... I will put all my faith, and all my hope in Jesus. He is the protector of my soul and the Lord of my heart. I dont enjoy being hated or disliked, at all. But, I find that simply becasue of what I believe, that I am not as liked as I used to be in certain circles. For those who truly know me, believers or not, this is not been the case thus far, but I am aware it all is destined to change. Ironically however, as more of God is seemingly pushed out of the world, more is revealed in heaven. Again, "The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone" Everything in Heaven loves God. God is establishing Heaven on earth, therefore, all things that do not love him is being removed, and right underneath everyones noses so to speak. Its quite remarkable that a message that was rejected is becoming the very message that will rule this earth. But again, you may not yet believe this, so it may sound very foolish and ridiculous. I cant help that. No argument here. that is exactly what I was saying. There is no room in Christ for the self righteous. "It is not the righteous who need a doctor, but the sinners". "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God". The glory of God is the absolute most sought after thing in my life. Although, I suck at it, it is a quest that must be sought through faith, trust, and love. The glory of God seems to have been designed in such a way that only a human mind can comprehend the love inspired hope that ushers the presence of God. I subscribe to the possibility yes, you however seem to take this as truth. I cannot help that. You may not be able to hear the Gospel because you have seemingly blocked it from your mind. Jesus says that God has hidden the things of Heaven from the wise and learned and revealed them to the little children. Examine a child. They are closer to heaven than we are. But, they too will be subject to the harsh ways of this world and they too will have to decide if innocence is something they honor or not. We are definitely in agreement here. this is one of Jesus' biggest lessons. There is no status of righteous, only God is righteous. Only God. Unless we can find someone we consider to be on the same level as the goodness and love of God? I certainly cant. What makes a man righteous is Gods love. Thats it. If the love is there, the fruit of that love will be as well. The fruit of love is not murder, either with the toungue, the mind, or the body. The fruit of love is well, love. This brings us back to the interpretation/revelation "spiritual semantics". I call it discernment becasue that is what it is. The fruit of love seems to be discerned by the power of love itself. That is, it takes love to discern love. I said love others with the love of Christ... and yes, this is the message you seem to deny. But you, as many do, discount this message because of the rest of the truth he brought. That this world is finished. The ways of this world are over and it is just a matter of time before it ends. However, life is not over, and it is found in spirit. Many the world over discount the Gospel because of hell. Sad really. Im sure many can testify that they have been pretty close to hell on earth and to the "hope" of eternal death. Which is believe it or not, what many of you believe, admitted or not. Jesus showed us that we not only dont have to believe that, but that it also is not the truth, and, he sealed that promise his own blood. this is a message i want all my loved ones to know with certainty, this is the message of life and what I stand for. 13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. (Matt 7) Not at all. However... "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. Im out of time for now... let me come back to the last comment please. "We didn't start the fire"

A religion is something that someone follows. There are many religious people, even atheism can be considered a religion. It is about truth. There are Christians who are religious, but not spiritual, this is where you will have the hardest time understanding my "platform". Those who have been touched by the spirit know exactly what I am talking about, and coincidentally, have to "defend" themselves against religious and non religious people alike. Jesus was ordered crucified by religious people, those who did not know the spirit of God. This is all in the Gospels. Those who crucified the "Lord of Glory" did so because they did not recognize him. The Zeal of the Jews at that time is what carried out the prophesy (the Jews were chosen for their zeal). That is Zeal for God. Sort of Ironic that it was the Zeal for God that killed God in flesh dont you think? But, "The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone". This is a powerful way for the almighty to reveal himself, in the most humble of ways, as one of us, not only that, as one rejected, abused, tortured, and killed. When I really think about this, it is truly magnificent. Forgive me, but you seem to have missed my point in the last post. It is not the interpretations of the scriptures, but of the spirit behind the scriptures. Im not going to hide behind "I dont subscribe to that interpretation". Im going to explain it as best I can. It is not mans interpretations of scriptures. It is mans ability/inability to understand, recieve, and express love. If I told you that God is love, yet you are limited in what you know about love (or rather what you believe about it), then you would be limited in expressing, interpreting, and applying this love, in fact, you would also be very vulnerable to anothers' definition of it. Which is and has been happening. Anyone can say God is love, but then what? What does that mean to you or to the one who hears that? What we know about love is what we know about God. With the Gospel. If homosexuality was an absolute deal breaker, why did Jesus not say it? Regardless, the quest for anyone desiring to live by the spirit is to leave the foolish things of the world behind. Arguing over what is sin and what is not is foolish for those who understand, know, and live by grace. You have to understand that I dont believe anything is impossible with God. Anything. If one lives their entire live enslaved to sin, it does not mean they are not Gods, it is just their path. Refer to the thieves on the crosses next to Jesus. God has been revealing himself since the beginning. Jesus is the perfect example, and he died for sinners. He hung out with sinners. He ate and drank with them, taught them, loved them. I dont believe the entire spectrum of the revelation of God is anywhere close to revealed fully. Jesus tells us that the Holy Spirit, the one he released when he was crucified, will be the counselor and will lead us into ALL truth. If you believe the entire spectrum of truth is already occupied, you wouldnt be that much different than many of the zealous religious people I know. You cannot put a wall around wonder man. We have to stay open and learn from the grace in Jesus as one, not as us and Jesus, but just as Jesus. It is the interpretation (revelation for the spiritual) of grace, not the scriptures, that will usher the presence of God into our natural sinful bodies. Another way to see it... We are separation so that we can know reconciliation. We are death so that we might know life. When we realize we are mortal, life becomes special, more beautiful, limitless in wonder and possiblility. God knows God already, aparently his desire is to let us know him as well. But who knows the mind of God??? But we have the mind of Christ. (somewhere in the scriptures) My position on grace is far from moderate. I consider myself a radical believer. I believe i am being prepped for martyrdom, is that radical enough? I want Jesus to have everything in me, I am his fully, as weak and as imperfect as I am, I will persevere in his heart. Jesus Christ is my God. I am safe from all the attacks of this world, from both the religious and non. I believe Jesus died for everyone. thats everyone. Most people in the "church" cover grace with works or "strength". They believe, in their heart even, that they are good, that they can do no wrong, that they are the chosen ones to reveal God to the sinners. They dont see that they are the sinners, that they are not good, that they do not deserve the blood of Jesus. This is a completely different "interpretation" of grace with people who claim the same God. I believe that grace covers ALL. Is that clear enough? Jesus is about mercy, forgiveness, understanding, love. How do you suspect these things can be recognized and recieved in increasing measures if one believes already that they are righteous? You asked me how I reconcile my position with the church... Ive tried to explain that I do that with Jesus. Do you really think that Jesus would drag someone behind their truck? These people should be exposed as false... and fairly easily for anyone who remotely understands and obeys the Gospel. You should probably re-read my previous post. Nevertheless, what undesirable parts are you speaking of? The Gospel IS the fulfillment of the law. Period. Fulfillment means complete. Jesus says in regards to the old testament... "No one puts new wine (new covenant) into old wineskins (old covenant), no, instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins and both are preserved" . try to understand please. I accept fully, BY FAITH the entire bible as the true and inspired Word of God, but also accept, as I said earlier, that it is possible the word we have may have been altered at some point. this is delicate, but still defined if you try to understand. Bob Marley said it pretty good, and so did my last girlfriend... "Half the story has never been told, so now you see the light, stand up for your right". But, we know already that Bob died of brain cancer and he was a substance abuser, so, we should probably just discard anything he stood for. BTW, what exactly is the standard for a normal brain without defect? If being a believer means I have a defect then I can fully accept that. My work is not to save others, it is simply to lead people to the Gospel of Jesus... he is the one who saves. Dont take this the wrong way, but your kidding right? According to the Gospel, the establishment of Heaven on earth is what this is all about. In heaven, everyone loves everyone and all are under Gods love. I will repeat it again, the message is love one another with the love of Christ. This IS the message that Jesus was killed for, (and the same one many of you reject) because he preached this message amongst the zeal of the Jews, who were caught up by traditions and scriptures instead of spiritual truth. Truth is grace and grace is truth... they came together as one in Christ, as the Gospel explains. No argument here. You and I are establishing a platform, but we have to be patient with each other, especially here on these forums, that is if, your like me and enjoy these types of conversations in a strange way. So far, we have a ton of writing and we are sifting through everything. the questions will become less vauge and so will the answers, but you have to bare with me. Besides the obvious you dont believe and I do, we may find other solid dividers that can be at least explored in thought. But, your sincerity is refreshing anyway, unless I have completely mis-read you. "We didn't start the fire"

I have only claimed that soon means inevitably. Jesus was prophesied in the old testament through every book. Many lived and died believing he was and wasnt coming. The deniers then, were wrong, and they forfeited their right to hope in exchange for the glories of this world, which are pleaurable, but not fully complete. Unless you hold that Jesus never was real? "We didn't start the fire"

My post said learned feelings. You do not always have to have evidence to test something do you? I dont know, im asking? I would say no though. "We didn't start the fire"

If your speaking of evidence, then your right, the only evidence I have is in my heart. If your speaking of logic and reason, then I have to disagree, because, I have found both logic and reason in faith. However, I am okay with others interpreting what truth is to them. There is a universal truth, that alone decides what is right and what is wrong and that in itself intrigues me. "We didn't start the fire"

I cannot judge you. I can however make a judgement, just as you can, but my desire is to lead you to Jesus. Believe it or not, I am judged more by those who claim I judge them. You have every right to deny savlvation. You also have to right to accept it. As far as laws of the world go, you may not in some places. I do not accept mans laws as truth. Gods law, as explained in the Gospel, was established so that we would know what sin is, so that we might know grace. Anything that goes against Jesus goes against love. "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." (1jn) They who seek to mix the spirit with the laws of man are not those who I desire to listen to. They usually are a bit double minded. Either grace is king, or, it isnt. I know this world will never know Heaven, until Jesus returns. So, while you all seek to make it so, you will not be able to, because, you cannot find common ground. The common ground is life. Listen to Peter Tosh... "Everyone is fighting for peace, but love is crying out for justice!" Its understood man believe me. But your bitterness is toward God, thats why your still bitter. You carry blame in your heart. If you want to blame, its perfectly human, but why blame life? Its like blaming skydiving for fatalities. Even blaming the system of society is bad for your heart... we have to learn how to accept. Before acceptance comes an array of other feelings and emotions, blame, anger, frustration, ect.. But, I will say again, that your emotional responses are much more truthful than others I have heard. Truth is where God is, as hard as it hits sometimes. Oh no, dont get me wrong, I know the heart is in the mind, just as the mind is in the brain, but, others dont. This is just something that must be revealed I guess. I understand the feel of most of you posts. You are intelligent, possibly well educated, you found a truth to cling to and it is a part of who you are. I mean, you have Neitzsche as your sign off. Jim Morrison read alot of him as well and he became a very influencial and poetic rock star. listening to someone like me may not do you any good, especially if you are now completely closed to possibility. Respectfully. "We didn't start the fire"

Finally another religious thread! This will make amazon happy. While I was busy shooting heroin and banging my head against an engine block (of course trying to get more transcendent) I had a feeling there may be another decent discussion on DZ.com! I was right! Do you honestly think I could resist this one? Seriously though. I will need to think more on this. My second thought was to ask if the consensus is that the apostles and Jesus were all substance abusers or brain cancer patients. My first thought was to just send a laughing emoticon. A brain defect? aw the hell with it... "We didn't start the fire"

Personally I think truth is more like a learned feeling. When I get revelations they are very enlightening. You see something you had not seen at all before and they can change your original perception completely. They are very powerful. What is yours? "We didn't start the fire"

The Gospel is the fulfillment of ALL the law (this is for those who may not know). It is the promise of grace, and everything under Heaven is under grace. This is the cornerstone of the Gospel. "The Kingdom of Heaven is near" I would implore every believer to examine themselves very carefully in regards to the topics which continue to arise and steer people away from God. It is a very serious thing for me at least. I dont take it lightly. I mean what did Jesus die for if not to bring people to God? Someone killing themselves becasue of someone elses tounge is only more "evidence" that life and death truly do come from the tounge. And yes, I believe the mind is a very powerful thing. I have been confronted by people who say there is no "heart" in man, that the heart is merely a muscle. I wonder if they say the same thing about the mind... where the heart lives? Isnt it just a brain? I think you know what I believe. Yes. Im sure even my own family in many ways. They would rather hear from a PHD preacher. Some are very good and some are very rigid, but you cant find revelation only through education, it is God who reveals God, not a university or school of ministry. Its strange to me sometimes when I think about it. It is a hard thing when a family member argues against what you have been taught by the spirit, especially when I know they are not as versed in the Gospels (and I say that humbly as well). Jesus warned us about that very thing. Family is beautiful, but not everything. All freinds are family, but not all family are freinds, you may or may not agree. Jesus speaks quite clearly about family, and he warns... (Matt 10) 34"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn " 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - 36a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' Now, for those without spiritual discernment, this is a very harsh thing to hear. In fact, it has even been a verse many have used to deny Jesus with... however, I have experienced a small taste of this and i am quite certain many have. It is the truth as hard as it can be to accept. In regards to many things the Holy Spirit reveals, I would most likely be counciled by a much "stronger" beleiver, but I cannot accept what I cannot accept. In fact, none of us can. Let me be very clear though. In this faith it is the love of God that allows one to love others more fully. This of course includes family. So, while the warning is there in regards to family, so also is the love. In fact, the revelation in this verse can only be found in the spirit of love. Again, sorry about the length. "We didn't start the fire"

Jesus tells his disciples to let their light shine before man. He doesnt say, go force this love on everyone, so, it seems we both have found our place... for now anyway. Knowing what we do know about time and space is more than enough to excite any imagination. I mean at what point in existance does life begin and end at the same time? The answer to me is quite miraculous. This thread had a strong wordly, government-type tone to it. i wanted to be clear that is not at all what Jesus is about. Maadmax said it better. Come to think of it, he says it all better... and quicker too. Yeah, I dont believe life was ever alone. If it belongs to itself, how can it belong to nothing? Lonliness is a lie, one that will attempt to rob our minds of hope. Something that as human beings, we have access too. "We didn't start the fire"

You are right, but, there are still Christian homosexuals. People will make judgements against homosexuality based on what God has put in their hearts, but, none of those judgements are from Jesus but from the ones claiming him as savior. If homosexuality (not lust) was such a big separator, why was it not even mentioned in the Gospel? "The flesh counts for nothing." I for one will not set out to separate a homosexual from God anymore than i would an adulteress or a murderer. The minute I do something like that in my heart, I am no longer under grace. This topic alone has inflamed many believers to speak against me and even call me false. So be it. I must speak the truth and persevere to present the Jesus that saved me. In this spiritual conflict, grace is all I have. Coincidentally, it is all I need. I hate this. Nowhere in the Gospels does it say that a homosexual cannot have a relationship with God, but, it is clear that repentance is the only way. If the homosexual feels the need to repent of his/her homosexuality, that is not up to me. There are homosexuals who wish they were'nt, believe it or not. I want to be fair to them as well and give everyone a platform from which to grow closer to God. If ones sexual orientation is keeping them from God, then that is wrong. If I am helping keep them from God, then that is wrong. But, human beings are extremely sexual. Extremely sexual. I have found that this is more a quest for satisfaction rather than rebellion or even enjoyment. I would just say be honest with God. Be 110% honest. Do you really think that God is waiting for someone to be perfect before he endows them with perfect love? This sounds great, believe me, but, I cant accept it as truth. You may never know if what you do or dont do will hurt another. Its no coincidence that this deceptive saying is the backbone of the satanic bible... one many atheist cling to believe it or not. I can only testify for myself. He did one heck of a "magic trick" for me. Funny enough, Jesus called the spirit of satan the "Father of Lies". So, you believe that a man who came, and died, to speak against the lie, was actually the lie? The Pharisees accused Jesus of this very thing, and he said "A house divided against itself cannot stand". They accused him of being satan as he was driving out demonic spirits. I ask you, what did the apostles gain? Most of them were brutally murdered and lived very very humble lives. Granted, much of the bigger sects of Christianity are testimonies against this, or at least appear so, but, the truth is that content is what is sought, not riches. The Apostles didnt just make up some lies, although it does make for a very convincing "argument". They saw, walked, spoke to, and loved Jesus Christ. They testified that they saw him crucified, rejected, spit on and beaten... and... hold your breath... they saw him ressurected. They didnt establish Christianity for money, they did it out of love and truth. They couldnt lie about what was seen, although, Im sure there are many many times they wish they could've. Refer to Peter and his denial of Jesus when the Romans came to get him, amongst other examples of the apostolic ministry. I know it is hard to understand and accept, it was hard for Christ to do what he did as well, but it is designed to bring faith, a faith that will inspire the deepest love in the human mind. I dont want to argue with you, and im not trying to offend you or piss you off, so dont take it as an attack. I still dont know if this forum is a good place to talk about Jesus, because thats all it is really, just talk, but, it is being done anyway and Im kind of a roll with the flow guy. I also want to respond to something else in your post, but im out of time. "We didn't start the fire"

Well, thats just a bummer, and Im sorry you feel that way. Still, this is SC right? And, you did click on the little clicky. And, I havent started one religious thread... okay, one, but that was short lived as mainly it was an apology for a defined hypcrisy I found in myself in regards to homosexuality. Coincidentally, this forum helped me see myself more clearly in the eyes of others, and change has manifested here believe it or not. Hardly just speaking into the wind. Many on here come from all over the world, different influences, revelations, and understandings ect.... This was something I never expected to be a part of. A forum?? Never heard of it till a couple years ago researching the aerodyne pilot. Beliefs are very sacred to the believers. Non beliefs as well. I doubt it is easy to never talk about. But, I do understnd where your coming from. 24,000 posts? You have every right to be burned out! "We didn't start the fire"

Let me just say first that this is not me vs everyone else. I dont at all disrespect any of you. But your right, I do like to talk about the Gospel. I am not the authority on Jesus. Im not a preacher nor an evangelist, im just a guy who was transformed by his message. This is not about me, but about the truth I accepted, and your right, I am a little longwinded. IMO. I find it difficult to accept everything in the Bible as fully true, do to the fact it has been around a very long time, and given some of the methods used to further the spread, I see the types of people who would have been responsible for "altering" it. Clearly if someone is willing to kill you and your family for not believing in the Gospel, then they certainly havent understood a damn thing, and yet still claim they do. They, not the Gospel, are the reasons for the sour taste in many mouths. While I accept there may have been things that were altered, the message to repent and accept salvation in Christ is what fired me up. If you read the Gospel but do not do what it says, then it will have no affect on you spiritually. It is a spiritual word, and, its not for everyone. There are great lessons, but the lessons arent enough, you need spiritual discernment to be led into the full truth in Christ. Metaphors are very common use for spritual revelations. Poets use them, songwriters, spiritual leaders in ALL religions. Using metaphors is a simple way to relate something to something you are familiar with. Metaphors are beautiful things, especially when they are understood. I only said that so that you would know I dont take the entire Bible as literal. Most evangelicals do. Its one reason why many have a hard time understanding them, but, I for one applaud their faith, if in fact their faith is producing the goodness and pureness of Christ. If not, then I am 100% on guard against them, as I am told to be. Im not sure why you asked this. I suspect I am being baited for something, but I am still open to that. I am much more open than most of you assume. In fact, it may very well surprise you. Thats why I dont particularly like being called a close minded biggot, or being eluded as being one. So, unalterable? Definitely not, not in my opinion anyway. I have tried to explain this before, and I think I failed... again. But, it is what I believe and you are free to rip it apart... If someone writes you a letter, the words and the letters used dont have as much impact as what is being said. There are unlimited ways of expression, thanks to creativity, we get to explore some of them, but the words do not have to be taken literally to be understood. If your asking a yes or no question, then no, I dont believe the bible has not been altered. I must speak the truth. However, the spirit behind the words in the Bible, especially in the Gospels, have all of my heart, and the message is incredibly pure in my mind. It brought me into a life I cannot deny, and has shown me things I dont deserve, that is if Gods favor is believed to only rest on the righteous, as many faiths contend. As long as I continue to speak the truth from my heart, thats all I can do. My conscience is not innocent by any means, but it is clean, at least that is the work of Jesus anyway. Sorry about all the words, but I hope I answered your question regardless? "We didn't start the fire"

"I would just be happy with freedom from religon threads" oh come on, you don't really mean that... "We didn't start the fire"

Im not worried about that. But it is true that most anyone, if not everyone, who stands for peace and love will find great resistance and yes, even persecution on that journey. That is curious to me. Why was Jesus crucified? Because he was not recognized. I do understand why I am criticized for "changing" definitions, but its not becasue I am using the wrong definitions, but because many refuse to understand the way they are being used, but again, I do understand the criticism. I would be happy to explain further all of the definitions in question... it may be seen that the definitions are not obstructed or abused at all, just used in different ways. Ways that may be easily accepted if a professor of a major university, or a briliiant scientist or writer were to use them, instead of a little Jesus believer. In regards to the end times. "The end will come like a thief in the night", it wont matter if the signs are recognized or not. I think many have shown that denial is a bit stubborn. It reminds me of "Monty Python and the search for the Holy Grail" When the knight at the bridge gets all his limbs cut off and he still denys he is beaten. "We didn't start the fire"

How exactly is it a bad thing, or a wasteful thing to desire to please? In fact the very act of pleasing another is quite pleasurable. Nevertheless, I wouldnt assume spiritual minds lack the zest for life you have been given. Rewards come in many different ways... many different ways. Agreed. This seems to be a source of your bitterness, but certainly not the source. Then you will say that your not bitter, but, I still have to point out some things, kind of like what your doing. I hope you dont mind. I still do not understand why many still see not one ounce of logic or reason in faith. You can argue that you dont need or use faith... thats all it is, an argument. There is no truth to that claim... none that I can see anyway. Perhaps you could use some of your logic and reasoning to "prove me wrong?" It doesnt matter either way, but I continue to hear this over the past few years in this forum, and I still dont believe it is true. There are many ways to brainwash a child. Raising them in the love of God should be at least as accepted as allowing them unlimited access to the internet and the things that are influenced from straying too far in there. Kids are influencial. In Christianity and in the trappings of this world. How many people do you know are too afraid to leave the comfort of their own town or city? Everyone is fed the success BS, and most everyone follows it as if it is the only way to enjoy and experience a truly fulfilling life. "We didn't start the fire"

Good. If the Word of God is as strong as it is said to be, then I welcome ALL the thoughts of the non-believers. It would be pretty difficult to teach the Gospel as fiction. The very spirit of it is more than enough to enlighten anyone who hears it. Clearly, many way underestimate this message. It is not the Chronicles of Narnia, it is a living Word, the Word of life, the God you wont believe in is filling those who hear with a love many refuse to believe even exists. Who or what can put a measure on love? Now if you'll excuse me I have some more doubters to torture and kill. Sorry, couldnt resist. "We didn't start the fire"

Okay, so your bitter. Since you have no problem being honest, have you read a Gospel? I only ask this because as long as Ive known about Christianity, I never once read a Gospel in church, nor at home with family or friends. You dont show much understanding of the Gospel to be honest. You sound much like Jesus when he spoke against the Pharisees. What I see is more time than not many of you on the side of Jesus, thinking your against him. This is because the Gospel is not even read at all. Some dont even know what the Gospel is, they think its just "the King James Bible." The truth of the spread of Christianity is not how people used it and manipulated it to get the masses under control, it is in the heart of the message. The apostles did not use the same methods as the roman empire. In fact, Jesus didnt use those methods either. Irregardless of how the message got around, the revelation of God in Jesus is not a message to kill, oppress, lie, cheat ect... like you seem to believe. But rather a message of the greatest love in the universe. Jesus said look out for the yeast of the Pharisee which is hypocrisy. He explained that a little leavens the whole loaf. Your examples of historical evidence of the spread of early Christianity are definitely not examples of the Gospel, but rather examples of what Christ warned us about. "We didn't start the fire"

Just having the knowledge has never been enough. The revelation given through the knowledge is where the true power is. People can know things and still not have revelation. The knowledge of Muhammeds final prophecy is not enough to bring about revelation in the heart. Take a seed. Plant it. Water it. Give it sunlight, do everything you can do, but, you do not make it grow. Life is in the seed and life makes things grow. God is life. Revelation is a gift of truth... it can open eyes and completely change perception. The problem isnt God, it is mans interpretation and application of what God is. This is why Jesus is called the sharpest double edged sword. One edge is for protection against hypocrites (in religion), the other is for protection against doubt (usually a bitter doubt). Both can be found in a believer but it is the strength of the sword, not the believer, that is the glory of God. Love conquers all. Thats what this is all about. There are limits sometimes to the amount of love we can let in and that has to do with the hardness of our hearts. It doesnt matter what wisdom allows mankind to dig up, it doesnt matter how much you know. The greatest pursuit in life is love, that is what matters. "We didn't start the fire"

Yes. A truth, but you already know I'm a beleiver, so it should be clear what my mind accepted as truth. God loves us. "We didn't start the fire"