mdrejhon

What a descent guy, understands what freedom means. "Different but equal." I'm just going to reiterate this post. Nothing's going to change my respect I have for this 86 year old. Amen.

Some people may decide to debate animals have no concept of morals. In that case, I would rephrase, as: A specific person or group (religion) might consider immoral to include same sex activity which obviously happen out in mother nature. Another person or group (religion) may consider one animal unnecessarily killing another in a fight, to be immoral. Or both is. Or neither is. That's why I say there's debate of what 'immoral' means, in this context...

Mother nature has a lot of immoral things happen out there in the wild. But of course, people debate what of that is 'immoral'.

And, as in this case, creating all kinds of unnecessary complications as a result. That also includes the 1040 form and the date of April 15th. Another subject of debate altogether for Speaker's Corner.

I'm mostly neutral, in a "let things happen" way. If gay marriage happens, great -- or if civil unions with full equivalent rights happen, great. (FWIW, where I live, Canada has legal gay marriage) I do observe that marriage in many cultures pretty much predates highly-organized religion. In many cultures in many areas, it did not require government approval or religion approval to marry, back in many places in ancient history. Many cultures independently came up with many independent ideas of marriage (or things they used a word that is now translated into modern English as 'marriage'), including of course, ancient same-sex rituals resembling same-sex marriage, whether using the word marriage or another. Whether it was male-female, same-species, same-family, cross-family, multiple-female (polygamy), same-sex, slave-like status, and whatever. One culture's/religion's idea of what is right for marriage, is different from another culture's/religion. As the world connected to each other and spread, many of these concepts fell out of favour, or became increasingly isolated, and more limited forms of marriage is now the dominant form today. What is happening today, might be a revert of certain types (in this case, same-sex) that was formerly highly suppressed in the last millenium or two, as long as it doesn't hurt others... Yes, yes, it may be up to debate how the word 'marriage' was invented to describe a ceremony-and-then-lifelong-union that had long existed long before major forms of organized religion such as Christanity, etc. In that sense, I can understand that some may argue that a word (in this case 'marriage') was developed by later religions in history to assign to a long-preexisting ancient ritual that predated the major religions. That said, there's a big history gap during the Middle Ages, since it was more supressed during that time period than during the ancient time period. It's all very interesting study, regardless whether one believes in same-sex marriage, or does not believe in.... Interesting history tidbit. Codex Theodosianus (Theodosian Code - A legal code compiled around the century AD 400's). Just before the Middle Ages. Check section 9.7.3 if you studied a little Latin. The same sex marriage debate isn't new. And, it's not even the only one.

Or entire skydiving career!

This is the Speaker's Corner, so debate is likely to be ignited anyway. I stress I observe that many people who DO believe in allowing gay marriage, also is AGAINST forcing churches to do the marrying and instead letting the city hall do it. These are two different 'issues' in their eyes... I can totally understand; it makes no sense to let a church of a dramatically different religion be forced to marry a couple of totally different religion anyway. Regardless of whether you don't believe in gay marriage which I understand many are uncomfortable with, it just bears worth pointing out many gays don't believe in forcing churches to do it, a separate issue altogether...

Thanks for posting that. I'll forward it to a few. You know, at Men's World Record at JFTC, israeli and arab jumpers existed, gays jumpers (3 of them in the complete 122-way) plus jumpers who came from countries where being gay is illegal. Jumpers from adversarial countries. America, Russia, Venezuela, Israel, Arabs, and more, all connected in the same formation. Jumpers of all kinds of opposing religions. I don't make a big voice out of anything or make a big fuss about these differences. I know not all of jumpers may share the same ideologies (and I know lots don't like gays), but set that aside, and let's just focus on fun skydiving. That's all I ask for. Let it be.

Wow. Just wow. That's sad for those who already paid for their flights. Guess it looks like it's World Team 2012 for me. Obviously, I could try to make the WT 2011 which is probably reduced to a 250-way, but I hate to steal anybody else's slot, but some will sadly give up their pursuit.

Indeed! The Torontoians got lucky to become the world's first dropzone with this running this summer!!! I wasn't able to go yet, but I helped a local skydiver organize their first-ever big-way camp which was a big success. They say they are easily able to take 21 people to altitude if the skydivers cramp in there (yes, 21, in a Caravan, and yes, new engine in front is slightly heavier so the rear doesn't tip!) .... but limited the big ways to 18 people plus video (19 people). The 900 horses really bring all of them up there.

Neato! Methinks this Canadian (me) needs to somehow subscribe to the USPA magazine just by getting a USPA membership (concurrent with my CSPA). Even though many say it's not worth it. That's two magazines in a row with articles I wanted to see!

Hey, I went into my first Perris 50-way at only 100 jumps per year (started 2005, then first 50-way camp in May 2008 at jump #253), succesfully doing my first 49-way and then doing my first 100-way only 6 months after (though I did 100 jumps in that period) It's possible to have the beginnings of a good RW jumper at only 100 jumps per year or slightly less -- without becoming a hack. Although I needed to plan in the short refamiliarization periods, I could score about 14 points in a 35-second period in a 4-way at one time (right after a busy 15-jump weekend and a 1-hour tunnel camp weekend) which is not that good, but pretty decent for a 100-jump-per-year 'hack' I am a low-timer in the big way leagues right now and my jumping pace, has, indeed accelerated to approximately 200 per trailing-12-month period. Just 1.5 years ago before my first 49way. Just 18 months ago, I had only 243 jumps (as longtime dropzone.com may remember in my jump profile) So I don't qualify as a 100-jump-per-year guy, but more of an approximately 200-jump per year. But to become a good RW flyer at only 100 jumps per annum, requires tunnel time and the layover-then-refamiliarize-then-big-surge method rather than the very-few-every-weekend method. While not enough for World Team leagues, 100 jumps is good enough to make some people a good 100-way jumper if you're very selective and persistent: Go to the right events, keep going back to them, the best events, throw in good tunnel ime, make it intense (i.e. going once a month and doing 10-15 jumps at a big way camp, and going to a 1-to-2-hour of 4-way tunnel camp in between, will always advance you a hell lot more in the 'bigways discipine' specifically, than going to the dropzone every weekend and doing intermittent RW) ... The winter-layover-then-massive-surge method actually worked out okay, as long as there's a 10-to-20 jump warmup (4-ways, 20-ways etc at home drpozone) and 2-hour tunnel camp warmup -- bang -- I can be part of a successful 50-way (er, 49-way) like I did. I did list my 6-month jump total from right before the winter layover when I applied, then I ended up with a 6-month winter layover. Almost two years ago I went from 6-month Canadian winter layover to successful participant of complete 49-way in less than 30 jumps (including the 17 camp jumps immediately preceding the 18th jump that was a 49-way). Still, I am now attempting to eliminate my winter layovers now and travelling, as that's necessary if I want to be part of World Team. Tunnel, obviously, and a bunch of tracking-practice/canopy training jumps as part of the post-winter warmup ramp-up is an absolute must if you don't want to be a hack...and to be safe at bigway events, because long period of layovers need a rapid jumping weekend/tunnel camp 'wakeup' period to quickly reset your last fall's skills after a winter layover. The magic event of more easily transitioning from 100 jumps per year to 200 jumps per year, is that I am now being invited to major sequentials (Confirmed Z-Team 2010 invite, etc) which afford me more plenty of efficient bigway-jumping opportunities. It's sorta been my formula to juggle my better half, my work life, and my aspiration to become a World Team member eventually -- with maybe decent chances of becoming one of the few sub-1000-jumpers at the next World Record (there was only 9 in the last 400-way record). I've been making my jumps 'efficient' in the big way discipline with all the fun roadtrips, with a good dose of tunnel time thrown in, too, and careful not to allow my flying, tracing, canopy skills to suffer by doing an appropriate healthy balance between tunnel and skydiving too... Sure, it made my freefly skills deficient (self-admitted total freefly hack), with the over-reliance on RW, but I can at least now sitfly and djust my sit without tumbling -- a skill I will continue to expand, tunnel-assisted, to help me be a better RW jumper.

Even though I'm 35, I had some straight A's back in the late 80's in science-related classes. I had a subscription to Scientific American (back in the day when it was more of a real science journal rather than a Popular Science copycat -- and I still have a subscription 20 years later!) I have enough information to strongly believe vaccines are effective due to various factors such as herd immunity -- even in when a specific vaccine is only 30% effective, provided a majority of the population is inoculated... I strongly believe in vaccination. However, my main problem is when information is being withheld and it's hard to make a decision. The flip side, is there are at times, specific vaccines for specific conditions in the history that have also been questionable... For example, if a vaccine decreaess your likelihood of catching something only by 10% while having big side effects -- versus decreasing your likelihood by 90% with very few side effects. There might be a great argument towards the latter (in the name of public good) and argument against the former (due to greed by the companies wanting to continue with a borderline vaccine). I generally take my flu shots, but I tend to from time to time, be concerned of whether a specific vaccine for something specific, is effective enough to be worth the risk. That said, if you are sick for any reason and become dehydrated, I suggest do not just drink plain water if you're getting dehydrated. Get some electrolyte beverage if you're expelling lot of fluid from any end of your body. A dilute Gatorade mix (50% gatorade, 50% water) is a popular recommendation, even by doctors. Or getting packets of Gastrolyte from drugstore, or something else similiar that serves a similiar purpose. One can drink tons of water and still feel dehydrated to the point of hospitalization, in extreme cases.

Converting pedrinr656's links by putting [/url] at the end of the link and [url] at the beginning of the link. http://www.mtkg.cn/readnewsnew.asp?ArticleID=366 http://www.wingchina.com/cn/vertical%20wind%20tunnel.htm?jdfwkey=cztin

Oh my. *blush*

Actually, let's rename this to "The Skyventure Seattle vs Skyventure Vancouver Thread". The battle of the west, to see who finishes building a Skventure in this untapped corner of the universe...

While my progression was a variant of tandem/AFF progressoin (dropzone's custom program), the dropzone observed I had a fear of pulling low and that caused even 4000 foot pulls to end up being too rushed, including one that resulted in linetwists. Drpzone decided to let me jump out solo (instructor supervised from the plane) from full altitude to acclimate to pulling at 3500 feet, before my graduating hop-and-pop resulting in the solo certificate. My altitude awareness, tumble recovery, and freefall movements were excellent. The first-ever frontloops and backloops I ever done, in front of a freefalling instructor, were commented to be 'flawless' -- they had difficulty tricking me into tumbling! (Jump #6 or #7, I think) ...But my pulls were just....consistently rushed. Linetwists ocurred at one time. The prescription was to send me on a few supervised full-altitude solo's (at just regular experieced-jumper ticket prices, plus rig rental) just before my hop-and-pop that got me the official Solo status. It was still an AFF-program variant that began with a few tandem progression jumps, but obviously custom tailored to me.

The other extreme.... Heat. I saw people dressing up a little bit -- neckwarmers on 107 degree days -- just because we were going up a 'little' higher at 16000 feet. While probably a precautionary measure based on past cold experiences, it wasn't that cold up there during MWR/JFTC even at 16000 or 17000 feet, probably 55F-ish. This is more than refreshing for a few minutes without gloves and neckwarmers. (gloves are useful for better grips, and scrape-injury protection, though, but they aren't worth the hassle for me on big ways unless it's true *freezing* cold, like almost 20,000 feet in a winter big way event) In MWR I was a bigway outer that tracked away from the dropzone, so I was often one of the people who landed furthest in Dead Valley (er, Skydive Perris). The weatherman said the temps reached up to 107 degrees. In fact, I often wished I sat by the jump door more often, so I could keep it open until 9K or 10K instead of being closed at 5K. (We opened the jumpdoor from 1K to approximately 5K to vent the airplane) People sitting near the pilot in the Twin Otters were all still sweating at 8K! I don't mind temporarily freezing a little bit; I view it simply as a pre-cooldown of my body heat, for my upcoming landing and survival trek in Death Valley (err, Perris dirt flats at 107F). A good cool-down makes the trek much more bearable. P.S. We JFTC and MWR jumpers wouldn't have made the record without the free Emergen-C and free water coolers scattered throughout Perris specially for the event. Thanks to Emergen-C who donated the vitamin/electrolyte powders that could optionally be poured in your cups of water. And thanks to Perris for that cheap Smoothies booth ($3 per healthy smoothie). I don't think we'd have survived otherwise!

I got my AFF training at one of these. At least one such dropzone still exists Sadly, I don't go back there as much as I should because of my dream to be in big ways, and that's hard at a Cessna dropzone. Also because now I live in Montreal, about 3+ hours away. I still spot better than most of the 1000 jumpers at turbine dropzones, methinks... And I was chief Cloud-clearing forecaster at my home dropzone; "Call will probably occur in 30 minutes." when the whole sky is still coudy, just by observing clouds, distant open spots, cloud cieling, and cloud movement vectors. I was usually accurate

I have a few winter jumps, including some hop-and-pops in -25C weather. I've got a few freefalls from 7000 feet in -2C weather (~30F), which naturally meant it was at below -20C at altitude. It's not bad, as long as you layer clothing very well, and keep your extremities heated -- especially hands. I use latex gloves under my regular leather freefall gloves, and very rarely ski gloves. I'm one of those who almost never wears gloves or neckwarmers during big way jumps, even from 16000 feet, when everyone else is chilly. However, during Texas winter big way camps, it becomes cold enough from 18000 feet for me to don a single layer of gloves. Slide landings on hard snow are also fun too. Just watch your distance perception if the snow is featureless.

I researched the URL's and have put together this post in the CSPA forums: ____ Skyventure Vancouver -- Early 2011 -- located next to a Canada Line SkyTrain station. The people out in the West half of Canada, may be interested in knowing about this, if they haven't heard already: http://www.bodyflightcanada.com/ Peter Zaoralek, chief executive of iFly Vancouver, a real-estate developer, who has visited 10 wind tunnels worldwide and has decided to bring it to Vancouver despite the recession... "Peter Zaoralek is bringing human flight technology to the Pacific Northwest, which will allow participants to fly without wings, a jet pack or superpowers..." http://www.bclocalnews.com/business/62714767.html "A Victoria developer has plans to build an indoor skydiving attraction in Richmond. Peter Zaoralek says the $7-million, vertical-windtunnel development next to the Canada Line rapid transit station and River Rock Casino would attract thousands of..." http://digital.timescolonist.com/epaper/viewer.aspx "A developer has plans to build an indoor skydiving attraction in Richmond. Peter Zaoralek says the $7-million, vertical-wind-tunnel development next to the Bridgeport Canada Line rapid transit station and River Rock Casino would attract thousands of visitors and help the sagging tourism industry... " http://www2.canada.com/richmondnews/news/story.html?id=0d4d0446-764b-4c6e-9e42-55cc99b1df23 He already as a number of investors; however, investor opportunities are still open for those who would like to help our western skydiving membership. ______ To moderator: You may wish to rename this topic, as this topic has probably suddenly become the "Skyventure Vancouver News" thread.

This gets a little more complicated in today's electronic age: One of my best friends took his own life almost 2 years ago. In this case, the suicide note was 100% electronic, emailed as a Word attachment. It was sent to probably two dozen people. It was a letter of sadness with lots of thank-you's and apologies, meaning it was not a hateful letter; the type of long letter that most people would feel guilty clicking the 'Delete' button on... To this date, it is still in a few people's Inbox's, at the bottom of their multi-gigabyte GMAIL or HOTMAIL accounts, since many people never delete their own email, and is easier to ignore at the bottom of clutter over 1000 messages down, likely never to be read again but that that it's "there" .... (especially as it was a non-hateful suicide note, mostly filled thanks and apologies even to the alienated). How did it get sent out, I don't exactly know. It wasn't broadcast all at once. I think that the document was likely sent to one person who was away to work, who upon returning, after the initial shock, later forwarded it to all recipient the suicide letter addressed, and as a result, that's how it got distributed to everyone. (Once the news were carefully broken to them over the phone or person, of course, and asked if they wanted a copy of the letter addressed to them, forwarded to them by email or if they preferred it printed out)... This is more or less how the email landed in my Inbox, while I was away, I was in Argentina when I heard the news. As his computer was a gift from me to him from a previous year, I consequently inherited his computer back to my hands, and had the unfortunate experience (but a duty I nontheless accepted) of having to do a little requested foresenic while I was cleaning it up before donate the computer. Upon request, I searched his computer for all the family digitals photographs and documents, so his family could have all the photographs and important documents (burn to a CD for them), so as a consequence of have had to eyeball folders (and glance at file dates) looking for the data to save to CD. I was also his computer fix-it technician / software installer technician who also set up his document folders, so I was already familiar with where he saved files, etc. So I was the ideal guy to go through his computer for recoverables before reformatting. This caused me to run across information such as the suicide letter Word document being originally created about 2 weeks before the suicide (with several revisions to it). Because of this date difference, it does, indeed, lead to a lot of "What if"'s, how we could have changed things befoe he alienated many of his friends... I still miss him very much --

Skydiving is gay? Someone forgot to send me the memo. I thought skydiving was straight.* . . . *Straight downwards to Planet Earth. Okay, there's tracking and atmonauti -- now maybe that's gay?

I knew you knew. My reply is just more educational for the general bigway-unaware readers -- there are the additional choreographing of a big way as "tracking teams" and "breakoff hard decks" That said, it's kinda getting off topic of the original poster, even though there's a subtopic of low pulls relating to big ways. Rather, more, I think I need to be punished for thread hijacking. (cpoxon and billyvon?)

I'm curious if the Rainbow Boogie article shows in this issue -- I'm a CSPA member, so I don't get Parachutist.