Scratch

I have been gone for over a year. It appears the bullshit has not changed in my absence. Somene please explain how a French Canadian whisky snob got to be a moderator???

I am kinda partial to the project patch.

http://goespoes.gsfc.nasa.gov/poes/project/index.html Bwhahahahahahah I'll let the rest of my countrymen explain

Skreamer. Lets move to the USA and start calling ourselves "African-Americans" Now that would confuse the crap out of people.

Well put.

Ah shit Nac, you found me out. Oh well it was fun while it lasted.

and for an African spin Thabo Mbeki There is no scientific proof that you require chickens for chicken soup. Robert Mugabe The chicken crossed the road because it had been forcably removed from it's coop. We do not mourn the chicken as it is a supporter of Tony Blair. We have incontrovertable proof that it was a Blair supporter as they talk the same way. Robert Mugabe..day two. Due to the fact that the evil imperialist chicken has crossed the road can anybody give us some eggs. The people are starving Robert Mugabe ...day three Anybody want to buy some eggs????

My Great uncle was sitting on his butt in an Italian POW camp. He was taken prisoner at Tobruk in 42. Interesting man that one. He made it through WW1 and WW2. Died at the ripe age of 89. My father was 16 and in the merchant marine. So he was probably bobbing around on the Atlantic somewhere. If not he was in a bar or a brothel. My sisters father-in-law was a bomb aimer flying Halifaxes at the time.

Sheesh I don't hate Americans in the least. I'm an animal lover after all and think everybody should own at least two.

and your problem with that is what????

Yikes!!!!!!!!!!

BWHAHAHAHAHAHA

Hey Dave. I know a guy called Bill from Alaska. That's near Texas....do you know him?

Such a handsome man. England will be the less for his absence.

Similar strategic military error but that was not the point. Points of similarity between Spain and Iraq. 1. Spain was to all intents and purposes a French ally 2. Napolion's economic policies were detrimental to Spain and not followed. 3. Napolion invaded Spain on the pretext of liberating them from a despotic ruling system 4. The French were welcomed at first. 5. Collateral damage swung public opinion against the French. 6. Napolion tried to impose a French dominated and controlled government. 7. The Spanish people, although abused for generations by the Inquisition rose up against a Francophile rule. 8. Napolion then got bogged down in a situation that he neither wanted or could afford but could not back out due to the 'lose of face' that such a move would incure. Follow so far? As for the NK comment that was an arbitrary one but what happend 200 years ago is that Austria, which was already a conqured nation, saw their opening and rose up against the French. Russia got pulled into the conflict and the rest is history. So as a possible senario NK moves South. An ugly conflict erupts (You guys are crazy if you think the US will easily beat them). China gets into the game. The nukes start flying. Just conjecture but possible. Side note on 'all they have is a lot of grunts' Who the hell do you think is giving the US so much uphill in Iraq. 21 Days to Baghdad and more than a year later the game goes on.

I can see old Osama now. Recruting some disaffected S Korean nationals to go knock over a few buildings in the North.

I have been reading a book about Napoleon and his campaigns. It's been interesting stuff. The Peninsula War probably being the most pertinent to 2004. I have posted a couple of links. Do a Google if you want more

What a good girl.

After a quick google to give you an idea of the size of a WW2 'Heavy' Grumman F14 Length- 62' 8.5" Crew - 2 Avro Lancaster Length- 69' 4" Crew - 7

If you ever get the chance to climb inside a Lancaster, Halifax, Stirling, B17 or other heavy of the period you will be amazed at the men who flew in them. They are small, cramped and the only thing separating the crew from 20mm amd 40mm cannon shells. Not to mention 88mm AA shrapnel, is a skin of aluminium a little thicker than a Cessna's. Scary shit indeed

I just get annoyed when the people in charge fuck up and then blame the subordinate for following through. I am not saying the subordinate is innocent but there is a chain of command for a reason. That reason is to ensure that when orders get issued those orders get followed. The fact that in this case the breakdown in the chain of command was known and nothing other than opening an enquiry was done is beyond the pale. So while people shuffle paper and interview and run for cover the abuse carries on.....niiiiice.

If it was wrong then it was his superiors job to make sure he knew. I am not saying that a superior can cover for everything but it does not absolve him of the responsibility. Saying "I did not know they were doing that" when it is you job to know is a crappy excuse. As a supervisor of any type. If you find youself in that situation you make sure that heads roll and then go take your medicine WITHOUT blaming your subordinates. That way, if you survive and if your boss has any brains you should. You will return to your team and have their respect. If you did know and did nothing then there is no way out. Expect to be looking for other employment.

The job of a supervisor is to supervise. If a subordinate gets out of hand he/she has not done their job. The supervisor need not be omniscient or omnipresent. It is impossible but the supervisor need to be respected. If you have a well trained, well supervised and dedicated team shit rarely, if ever happens. It is up to the supervisor to ensure this is the case. A crappy, ill disciplined, unmotivated team is the fault of the supervisor and the blame lies there.

Interesting reading this thread but I do not see anyone here asking the right questions. For a bunch of skydivers you guys suck at analysing the chain of events. I'll give it a go and then you can take shots at my logic. First some background. Q. What causes ordinary people to do inhuman things? A. Hate Q. What causes hate? A. Fear Q. How do you combat fear? A. Aggression. These are primal traits of the human animal. So what has this got to do with prisoner abuse. It is quite simple, those MP's/Soldiers are scared out of their minds and needed a release. The US went to war in Iraq quite prepared and able to win the ground. They also went to war wholly incapable of holding it. Quite simply they are under trained and under staffed for the job at hand. The Bush administration relied on far too many variables to fall into place for success to be guaranteed. The 'skyhook' of their logic is that the US would be welcomed with open arms as liberators. This has not happened and nor will it ever happen. There is simply too much general suspicion in the middle east of American motives for this to be the case. There is also a complete lack of trust in the American political system. By definition there can be a new guy at the top every four years and definitely every eight. You cannot logically expect the people of Iraq to make what is to them a generations long commitment to a power which is potentially so 'here today, gone tomorrow'. Right, so the background is set. The US has far too few boots on the ground in a land which is very hostile towards them. The people in those boots know very well that they are too few. Believe me when I tell you that a rifle feels about as useful as a toothpick when you are confronted by an angry mob. You want buddies, lots and lots of buddies. So the boots are afraid and they react to that fear by being aggressive. Round them all up, cuff them and hood them and throw them in jail. This is all quite understandable, there is actually very little choice. These prisoners then get taken to facilities which are even more understaffed. That prison staff feels the anger and hate surrounding them. The rifle has gone from a toothpick to a piece of gum. How do they react? Aggression and hate in return. Crush and dominate the prisoners. Teach them fear and cow them into submission. The only way the prison guards will feel remotely safe is if they can erase the fear inside of themselves by removing it's sourse. The result is abuse. Stupid, disgusting and very natural. So the way I see the chain is like so. The US went to war unprepared for all eventualities. Why?.....ask the generals. Now historically generals never, ever have enough personnel so why are they now understaffed? I would guess that it was probably 'career limiting' to make too much noise about numbers to their bosses. I will wager my rig on the fact that the words "Make do with X00 000 troops or we will find someone who will" were uttered in the Pentagon or White house somewhere along the line. The responsibility for the situation lies with the people who created the situation, not with those who 'made do' or with those who are at the sharp end simply being human beings. It stops with the Secretary of defence and the CiC. The political and civilian masters of the US war machine. Ok I will shut up now.