GreenLight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdUUx5FdySs Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

um, what part of that don't you people get? Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I dissagree... The tunnel is nothing like the sky. The sky doesn't have a guy with a joy stick controling your fall rate. The sky doesn't have walls. One of our jumpers with very little freefall time went into the tunnel for just a few minutes and it screwed him all up on his fall rate and control. It took us a couple of real skydives to get him back into shape. I think that if there were no throttle on the air speed it might not hurt jumpers fall rate control but because the driver in our tunnel makes people get big before they can get off the net it just messes them all up. Then they go back into real freefall and can't fly worth a crap. Maybe it is different in other tunnels but we told our people to stay away from it. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I saw the video of the crash landing and could not for the life of me believe that someone would use such a small canopy on a DEMO... This was a HUGE mistake (not an accident) in judgement. Not going to get into it again with all you guys who justify small canopies and swooping but clearly there was bad judgement before the plane even left the ground. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

All the fun of going in without the mess.... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

GEAR CHECK PEOPLE hows that? Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I would sure like to know when this became a rule... OK it will save time if you stow your brakes and set your kill line but it is not YOUR responsibility... It IS the packer who by the way should be a licensed rigger or at least closely supervised by one and that doesnt mean hanging around the DZ somewhere or sitting in the bar. Anyone who packs another's main canopy IS RESPONSIBLE for making sure that rig in it's entirety is ready to jump.... Just want you to know that a "packer" actually left my brakes unstowed once because I didnt know about this "RULE" and I about klled him when I got down. I don't use packers anymore.... Licensed or otherwise. OK back to the main topic... I vote chop it. Better than sitting there burning up altitude thinking about it. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

By the way I think it's Costerisans Farms. I posted a link in the Air Trash website to gain more momentum with this thread... Those really were the good ol days. With the loss of Ol Farts it's as though all the fun is going out of the sport.... Well maybe not all the fun... We still have our parking lot even though we have to share it with that noisy old wind tunnel. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Agreed... After thinking about it your answer makes perfect sense... Are you talking about the cutting away part? I guess that is one that has to be determined for each individual. I've had two good canopies out at the same time and that's not a lot of fun but it's better than two that are wrapped. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

We were just discussing thia yesterday... Oh the memories... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

First I have to say that this is one of the most intelligent questions I've heard from a new jumper in YEARS! When you have a malfunction it's best to do what you were trained to do and chop it. I had a streamer at 12,000 doing a sunset H&P and waited for the same reasons. Saving the canopy and thinking I had plenty of time to deal with it. When the main DID open it about knocked me out. It was like a gun going off in my head. I'm really surprised that it didn't blow up. I couldn't jump for a month and who knows how much stress that put on every part of my canopy and lines. Not to mention the pain I suffered on that long ride to the ground. In retrospect I should have chopped it immediately and try to follow it down under reserve. It sure would have been less painfull. What if it had knocked me out? Broke my back? Neck? Not worth the price of a canopy in my humble opinion.... I used to know a lady who had very bad velcro on her cutaway pud. I told her about it and she laughed at me because she was a "sky god" and didn't need my opinion. On the very next jump she was filming for a free flyer and exited in a sit position. Her pilot chute came our of her badly worn out legstrap pocket and went right up past her cutaway pud. (this is all on film by the way) The bridal took the cutaway pud with it resulting in immediate chop of the main as it inflated at 12,000ft. Now shes in freefall with one parachute left... What to do? I would dump the reserve right away just in case I need to screw with THAT. Like say a line over or something. After all, why wait till you have no time left and who knows for sure that the reserve is going to work properly.... As for your particular problem, I would do a couple of things. First wait till you hit terminal. Then if nothing happens dip a shoulder or go head down in order to inflate that PC. At that altitude you do have the time to mess with that type of situation. If after all the things I said you still have a PCIT, pull the cutaway pud and dump the reserve. Oviously the main ain't commin out for what ever reason... The problem with having different ways of dealing with malfunctions at different altitudes is that you may not react properly at a lower more dangerous altitude if you have to think about different ways of fixing the problem. Your emergency procedures will work better if they are automatic and you don't have to think. Time is precious when low and sometimes you don't really have time to think but you do have time to react. Practice emergency procedures as much as you can. Anywhere you can. Any time you can. Propose a different malfunction to yourself on each ride up and imagine yourself dealing with it... Then go on to thinking about your dive... Happy Landings and keep asking questions. You will have a good chance of surviving the sport that way. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I think that the main reason that seat belts are there are to keep everyone from moving around the aircraft during an emergency. If the plane is bouncing around in the air and the people are bouncing around in the cabin, the pilot is going to have an even rougher go at stablilizing the plane than if they were all strapped in and sitting still. In the event of a crash landing it may also help reduce injuries. If it is a full on crash... as you say, seatbelts aren't going to help much. Ever seen a twin otter stall on takeoff? I have. And the pilot was able to regain control and continue taking off instead of plowing into the ground wing tip first. If everyone was bouncing around inside the cabin there most likely would have been a different result. Helmets? Wear it on your head... That's where it was intended to be. I still use a frap hat and that is strapped to my chest strap during take off. Don't think it's going to do much damage to the person next to me. And I don't want to be concious for the fire.... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I too wish Bob a SPEEDY recovery and I know I will get the chance to jump with him again... I got dibs on pinning him his next time out... Think we can get Skip to take us up in the 3 for that? Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Got one of his old friends from the 18th Abn. Corp Club at Ft Bragg from the late 50s early 60s. Ben Bristow B-188... Anyways Jerry's previous email is no good I guess. Anyone have a way to contact him? If so tell him to go to the Air Trash website and contact me and update his email addy so I can get these two together. Thanks Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I wish I still had my "No Shit There I Was, Thought I Was Gonna Die" T shirt. You know the one. On the front it depicted a jumper hanging on to a strut and on the back it pictured the same guy hanging from the same strut but with a load in his pants. There was a jumpmaster's arm pushing on him too I think. I lost that shirt in Jail when I got a DUI heading into the Elsinore DZ one night from Perris. Don't get a DUI going from one DZ to another. You might lose your shirt. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Here's the way I see it. Low pulls were basically a way of extending your fun on the skydive. In a low pull situation your limit is, as always, the ground. More adrenaline I guess. If the ground weren't there, it wouldn't be a low pull and it wouldn't be fun. Swooping which usually requires a hook turn also has the same limit. The ground. If the ground weren't there, it wouldnt be a swoop and it wouldn't be any fun. There's my explanation of why I consider them pretty much the same. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

That is not a hook turn I have had to flat turn and land on the runway of all places because of a hook turner who corkscrewed right down infront of me and forced me off target. The runway was the only choice, luckily there was no aircraft on final, and I had to do it pretty much downwind. Good PLF... I went over to talk to the little lady about it and all she could say was I HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY... She said that about 10 times and I finally just walked off shaking my head. I was lower than her untill she corkscrewed in front of me... Again Im talking about the use of the main landing area here folks... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Again we are not talking about landing out and things going wrong... Hey I used to jump with a guy named Perry Armstrong... I know landing out. We are talking about the main landing area. Not the student target. Not the swoop pond and not out landings. Yes you better be ready to try and save your hyde if things go wrong. Thats why we train water landings in water I guess. You only need to do that once right? I also don't have to actually go in just to find out what it's like. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

OK... 1st. There should never be a reason to execute a low turn in the first place. Your flight plan should be set up in your mind in advance. If you see that someone is going to collide with you in time to do something about it, that is a diversion from your flight plan. In this case the other jumper killed you. Not your fault. 2nd. If it weren't for a bunch of people cork screwing down past you and taking over your rightfull airspace, you wouldn't be having to divert from your original flight plan. 3rd. You should have learned this in your first jump course. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Oh they read this stuff. I know they do. There are all kind of people out there reading this stuff and someon lets them know when they or their DZ is being talked about. Hi Benny.. Hi Pat... I know I'm going to hear about this now. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I have a feeling that Wind Tunnels and Jet Airplanes are higher on the priority list than a nice safe LARGER landing area... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

You bet I'm spooked... I spoke about LZ collisions a while back and got nothing but flack about it. Now it's happened and the idea of looking at a guy with a SKULL for a face, as did my good friend the badspot guy, scares me to no end. And yes I realise that we should not drop our guard just because we have landed... Phree Zone brings up a good point. And I plan on just that. It's quieter drop zones and smaller planes for me. I like traveling anyways. And Cessnas have a certain romantic flavor that you don't get out of a crowded Otter. In the meantime this does nothing to help make the main landing areas safer for everyone. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Agreed... But please don't put more obsticles in the air around me than needed. I'm getting old... I want to continue the aging process. I really think all we need to do is seperate the two disciplines as far as landing characteristics and practices go. We have a seperate student landing area. Why not a seperate hookturn and swooping area. In the main landing area the rules should be followed and deviations from the rules should result in warnings and groundings. And in the "High Performance Area" I'm sure they will also have rules. Simple as that. What would you guys think of that? In my opinion it would acutally give you more freedoms and less worries... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I agree 100%...And it's the whole reason for this board in my opinion. So that we can get to talking about problems such as this. Fi were you I would have gone over to that jumper and had a little talk about safety and exit timing. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Flying slow and not doing sharp turns below 200 feet has not killed anyone that I know of yet. (someone will argue this Im sure) On the other hand, too many collisions have occured from people hooking and swooping. Again I say please do it somewhere other than the main landing area. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."