GreenLight

At our DZ, the problem is that the DZO doesn't do anything about the skydiving opperations. He just hires and fires people. He has a manager to handle the rest. And the manager is of the same type of thinking that the swoopers are. He could care less what I or my friends think. Just give the little A holes with all the money what they want and screw the rest. I'll give it a shot at the end of the month but I don't really see it going anywhere. I guess more people are going to have to die to get the point across. In the mean time I'll be spending my jump money on something else like fishing.... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I was talking to everyone and anyone who wants someone to jump with on that one. And I'm sure we could show a guy with 6000 jumps how to do a proper funnel... Not too many people dirt dive those like we do. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Ya know Phreezone you dont really seem to be part of the solution... I think you just wanna stir shit up... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

If you ever see people with Air Trash caps on at the DZ you are always welcome to ask to jump with us. We pride ourselves on helping out newbies without charging them... All you pay for is your jump and we try to help the best we can. The beer that is drank later on is up to circumstances... Just remember that you will be critisized in a manner that will teach you how to skydive safely and accurately... Don't take it personal... Just part of the game... Then you will be asked to skydive again.... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I didn't.. However, you came up with a perfect solution to the problem... And it wouldn't involve making a new landing area for the swoopers. Everyone could enjoy the same landing area and no one would be dissappointed... Just let the "Big O'l Boats out LAST"... I think that's a great idea and I would accept that just fine and dandy... We could declare that we are going to land into the wind and want out AFTER anyone who thinks otherwise... There we go.. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Come to me when your knees are 54 years old and ask me that question if you are still jumping.... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

The only problem is that while they are learning the hard way they are taking out innocent flystanders.... They might come by and ask you to join in on their mistake and that's not good.... Something really does have to be done about this one. It's time to actually quit talking about it and do something. It just isn't right that we are now faced with dual fatalities as a real danger in skydiving. It used to be very rare. It's not so rare now. We must nip this one in the bud folks. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

This is the part that aggravates me the most. It's just plain wrong to allow ANYONE to deliberately set the landing direction down wind... That is just plain stupid in my mind and should not be allowed at all. I don't mind sharing the LZ with high speed canopies but please do not ask me to land down wind on purpose. And if it is the DZs policy to promote this, they are opening themselves up for a lot of extra liabillity by deaming this activity appropriate. There goes the waiver right out the window. So the DZO actually has a vested interest in seeing to it that policies don't go against the SIM or any other widely practiced safety precautions. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

They are the ones promoting the activity and supplying the equipment to do it with. They must take some of the liability on what effects they have on the industry and it's users. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

And here in lies the problem. You think you have invented "Modern Skydiving" and you know so much about what you are talking about you refuse to listen to the voice of experience. You seem to think that we "experienced jumpers" will simply die off or go away. Do you really think that after a third of a lifetime or more of skydiving we will simply go away? WRONG! We will change this problem! I guarantee it buddy. We've done it before and we'll do it again. I promise you that soon, very soon, you will start to see changes around the country in the way the "Swooper Problem" is handled. Death was never a good thing for this sport although it used to keep a lot of dum asses away. Now it seems to attract the dum asses. I call out to everyone reading this thread to protest swooping in the main landing area at their DZ this last Saturday of the month by landing into the wind and talking to your DZOs about this problem. Tell your DZO that you demand that Swoopers get their own landing area as far away from the main landing area as possible....... We will not overcome this problem if we don't stand up and talk to the only people who can hellp us change things. The DZOs. After all, the dealers are doing nothing about it. The manufacturers are doing nothing about it. USPA will most certainly do nothing about it. The only one left who can change things are the DZOs. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Rather than being one of the people who helped build the sport, I was one of the test dummies during the many transitions. I didn't mind because I knew in my own mind that these guys knew what they were talking about. (boy did they have me fooled!) LOL!. But the main point I was trying to make was that personally, I feel that I am puting myself in a more dangerous position than I used to. Sure, other people being in the air at the same time creates a danger in itself. But inappropriate and dangerous manuvers under canopy was never one of the problems that we had to constantly be aware of. We taught newbies to look around and stay clear of other canopies. We taught them to ALWAYS land into the wind unless it suddenly changed. (then we were supposed to take the down wind or cross wind landing and do a PLF) We also taught them not to make turns too close to the ground. I don't know what they are teaching in the FJCs now but I think it would be a good idea sit in on a ground class and see if these things are still being covered. If they are, then the problem lies with the attitudes of the students who are going through them now. Do these new students just forget what they are taught? Maybe they think it's not cool to be safe? They are indestructable? I don't know what the answer is but I do know this. If the local DZO doesn't do something to control this type of behavior like put in a seperate LZ for these boneheads, this old skydiver is going to start looking for another DZ to spend his money at. Too bad I'll have to drive so far to skydive safely. But it's better than getting all wrapped up with someone I don't know. I would like to ask everyone reading this thread to join in on the last Saturday of this month and protest Swooping In The Main Landing Area by landing into the wind and talking to your DZ managers about this problem. Let's be heard where it counts instead of just talking about it here. Talk to everyone you know who agrees that there should be another place for these people to practice swooping. Tell them to join in on the Swooping Protest. Then if they still don't listen, well there's always that lonely dirt area out there where the students land..... And that's if you're lucky enough to have a seperate landing area for the students. Those of you who's DZ is small and has ONLY one small place to land should be especially interested in protesting the swoopers. You have no other choice. Again, if Swooping has indeed become a sport unto iteself, then it needs it's own landing area and maybe even it's own airplane. I know that if overhand bowling became a new sport, the rest of the bowlers might want them to have their own alley. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Air Trash is meeting at Perris on the 30th in case you need help with your beer... You gonna be there Sparky? I think we outta all protest by landing into the wind all day.... That'll teach em... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Anyone mention the observer that followed the load out the door at Elsinore Parachute Center? I think it was out of the DC3 and he had a hand-held camera. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Never.... First person down should not be setting the pattern for a downwind landing... That is never acceptable when there is a choice... To do so in a common landing area is just plain selfish and dangerous to others. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

OK can we get this straight? "Sport Parachutes" are "INTENDED" to make jumping from an airplane or any other vehicle for that matter that is high enough to use a parachute, survivable... Is that a better way of puting it or do you want ot get down to hard symantics... All I'm saying is that it's getting a lot more scary near the landing area and I'm not so sure I want to continue to put myself in danger of SOMEONE ELSE KILLING ME anymore.... Yes, someone could have taken me out on every skydive I've made that had more than just me on it. But let's face it, a lot of people are not looking or thinking before they grab that front riser and corkscrew to the ground. I don't want to be in thier way when they do foolish things. I try to be as safe as I can and look all around me from the time I get out the door to the time I land. I don't need to be killed by an idiot. I'd much rather be killed by liver disease... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

OK how about this line of thought. I just went to the Swooping and Canopy Control board to see what I could figure out. This is what I've come up with. Swooping and Canopy Control has become a sport unto itself. But our "Landing Areas" have been taken over by swoopers much in the same way that our mountain roads and highways have been taken over by sport motorcycle racing enthusiasts. Just as our roads were not designed to act as race tracks, our only green landing area was not put there originally for sport swoopers. So why doesn't the DZO make a special landing area for those swooper guys and gals so that us slow folks and students can land in a nice safe environment as it was intended to be years before swoopering was invented? If you can't control the playboys then why not put them in a special area so they don't affect and kill the people who don't swoop? Another thing... How come these people who get all wrapped up at 150 feet aren't yanking sliver? At that altitude that's the first thing I would be doing... I don't get it. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

I wish there were another way to deal with it. The DZOs don't seem to want to do anything about it. The dealers and manufacturers don't seem to be doing anything about it. (not that they could) I don't honestly know what the answer is. So I appreciate your comments also. My young friend who just purchased an 89 foot canopy says that no matter what we do to make the sport safe, someone will find another way to kill themselves and that this process of elimination is something that will always exist.. I hope he's wrong but I tend to agree that it might be a reality. You are right that the landing area nearest the packing areas and main DZ areas will be the most sought for. Nothing we can do about that either. Maybe we slower folks should go out there and grow our own grassy area to land on... I just hate the dirt, that's all. A handicapped landing area maybe? Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

You can justify this activity all you want. It's why I didn't put this post in the Swooping section... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Ya, LOL! A lotta good it would a done in the Swooping and Canopy Control section eh? Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Ya know I've heard a lot of people say "Just land out if you're worried" and I say this... The grass was put there for people, all people to enjoy a nice clean landing without getting dirty or scraped up in the hard dirty dirt. Why the hell should I go land in the dirt when I'm doing things right. I'm landing into the wind like a safe pilot would. Why should I give up the grass for a bunch of A holes who want to land downwind at high rates of speed? I can just take my money to a quieter DZ where they only have one plane and a lot more grass... Can you say Taft? I don't need a wind tunnel, a jet or a bar in order to make some skydives. I'm getting older and no longer making 5 or 6 jumps a day when I go out for the weekend so I guess I don't count anymore. I've lasted 23 years in this sport without getting injured by sticking to basics and not chalenging the odds any more than need be. The parachute was intended to make jumping out of an airplane survivable. Not become a sport unto itself... And I could care less if these idiots frapped in one right after the other all day long as long as I can enjoy the sport as safely as possible too. But when it becomes dangerous just to exsist in the air or on the ground, well you can count me out. And as far as "Good Swoopers" verses "Bad Swoopers".... Who the hell can tell the difference on your base leg? Being tangled up with a swooper at 150 feet is not the time to figure it out. If there is even one out of a thousand chance that one of these idiots can get wrapped up with another jumper through swooping then I say ban it. It's not worth the chance. This sport is called SKYDIVING... NOT SWOOPING.... You wanna swoop, you land out and swoop your brains out. What do you think would happen if aircraft pilots all over the world decided that they wanted to buzz the runways before every landing? The FAA would be very busy me thinks... Until the DZOs do something to change the situation, I'll be spending my jump money and time doing something a little more safe like playing hopscotch on the freeway... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

That's how you made it into Air Trash.... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Well it's hard to hang out and wait for the swoopers to land when you have two more plane loads raining death from above... LOL! And as I say, once you're on the ground the danger is not really over... I almost got hit square on over the 4th and I didn't move a muscle... I could feel his wind as he went by... Geeesh... I like the idea of the beacons though... :) Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

John has no last name. We just call him "Quarter John" and I have no idea why... Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Curly and Dave used to do most of the little building jobs at the old Elsinore Parachute Center. Curly had lost about 3 fingers I think during the years he did that. Then he took over the Sail Plane operation and was a tow pilot. When he lost sight in one eye he had to take a special course in flying with one eye to get his license back which he did. Dave became a tow pilot and sail plane pilot and instructor also. Both were wonderful people. I used to do demos with Dave out of Curly's Maul. We did a lot of weddings. Here's to both of them...!!! Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."

Lots of collisions over the holidays and I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. I think it's just going to get worse. It's getting scary to be under a canopy around all these swoopers and it's still not safe once you're standing in the landing area. I may sound like I'm whining but I'm seeing more and more stupid jumpers pushing limits they have no business playing with in the first place. I may have to find a much quieter DZ because it's getting too crowded here. Green Light "Harry, why did you land all the way out there? Nobody else landed out there." "Your statement answered your question."