Lindsey

It also says " thou shalt NOT kill", But who is "thou?" And who should not be killed? -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

My personal belief is that after the first trimester it's too late for an abortion. BUT different people have different opinions about the issue. That's where the whole "there's a HUGE grey area" comment comes into play. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I'll try to be more specific in my wording in the future so as not to allow for these kinds of loopholes. I BET you weren't that confused about what I meant. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Where was his right to due process under the law infringed? -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Are you saying that a (most) baby can survive without someone suppling it with food, shelter, and water? Being self-sufficient and being able to survive outside the uterus are very different. I'm talking about the latter while you're talking about the former. I doubt many people use "being able to provide for your own food, shelter, and clothing" as an acceptable benchmark for how far along in a pregnancy a woman should have the choice to terminate the pregnancy. But if that's the case in your mind, it only makes the whole issue less cut and dry. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

What newborn baby can exist outside of the uterus without assistance (Food, water, shelter), and if this is the case, is throwing a newborn in a dumpster considered abortion? Most of 'em can and do. Who really knows when "feelings" come into play? It's a hard question to answer, and one of the reasons that there's such a grey area, imho. Is a newborn really "Conscious" Most of the time, yeah. I think so, and that's one of the reasons that near term is too late to abort, imho. If you question that, though, then there's another reason that there's such a grey area. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

There are a hell of a lot of adults who are yet to develop that skill I was thinking the same thing. My 11 y/o son has asked me some pretty insightful questions re: religion. Heck, I think he's probably more thoughtful about it than I am. What's kinda funny is that I have rarely taken him to church, but sometimes he wants to go...to the church that I was raised in. I didn't put that in his head. He's figuring it out for himself. Kinda cool. :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I don't think it is a grey area at all. You either believe life starts at conception or at birth. If you don't believe conception starts life, then the only other "exact instant" life begins would be at birth. With this understanding, someone having an abortion 1 day before they are due should not be any different than having a mole removed "because I didn't want it there anymore". What you're missing, though, is that even though some people may agree with you that life begins at conception, that may not be their marker for when in pregnancy it's acceptable to abort an embryo or a fetus. For some, whether there is ability to live on it own outside the mother's uterus. For others it's whether it is capable of suffering from the procedure. For others it's whether it could have consciousness. Lots of people have lots of different thoughts on the issue, and I'd have to agree that there's a HUGE grey area. :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Ribs. Blues. Elvis. Memphis has a good zoo too. Laser tag...lol. We did that once in Memphis. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

And civilized people don't commit capital offenses. You're WAAAY overthinking this thing...heh. Just GO with it. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

That's reassuring...lol. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I have voiced my pro choice position numerous times, and surprisingly have never been belittled for my opinion. However, ya' go talking about it being okay for humans to eat meat, and somebody might try to smack ya' down....lol. Silly people. :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Thank God I decided not to buy that gun...lol. It'd irritate the hell out of me if all the neighbors came over every time the power went out. However, I'll keep the "generator" secret close to my chest...lol. :) linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You're easily amused. :) -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Personal note where universal healthcare is involved. I'm getting to have knee replacement, and I'm only 42. But at 42 I can't go hiking with my son anymore. Can only ride my bicycle once or twice a week due to all the inflammation. I give myself knee joint injections that last 1 month. I wait another month until I can at least get into a window of acceptance for another steroid injection. I'd NEVER get a knee replacement in Canada. But my orthopod is looking at new procedures to make this less costly to me in the long run. I have private health insurance, and he knows that what it won't cover I will. So I'll get releif since I live here, where my health insurance is a privitized plan. Some places this would be seen as elective because even though I hurt, my knee ain't broke. The wait would be looooong. I'd get fat and debilitated before it was fixed....and then I wouldn't have a choice in which way it was fixed. I'd automatically get the cheaper version. I like the idea of choice and getting fixed quick. But that's just me. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

The extra cost of best qualified employees is often justified. I'd much rather make sure people who work for me have adequate healthcare than to wish for "universal" healthcare. I'm guessing that's a government-run healthcare system. Ugh. One only needs to compare the cost:benefit ratio of the United States' healthcare system to that of the rest of the developed western world to recognize that socialized healthcare is not the bogeyman it's so often made out to be. Having said that, I think Hillary's proposed system is the best and most cost effective healthcare reform proposal by any of the candidates. What's the cost/benefit ratio of the people dying while they wait for a dialysis or angioplasty slot in those socialized healthcare countries...how's that work out for them? Nutshell: If someone ELSE is paying for your groceries, you're not going to buy ground chuck, you're going to buy T-bones. If you think the government ISN'T going to ration the supply of steak, you're living in a dream world. I tend to opt for individualized health care over the cost:benefit ratio myself. :) Seems appropriate. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I hired a fat chick with some health problems to work for me....because she's good at her job. She's so good that I was willing to absorb some extra cost. My other employees are going to absorb some extra cost too. But she's good enough at what she does to make it worthwhile, I believe. I'd much rather make sure people who work for me have adequate healthcare than to wish for "universal" healthcare. I'm guessing that's a government-run healthcare system. Ugh. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Tell me again why the non-smokers health innsurance is higher due to the smokers? To the best of my knowledge this is not really a legal or legitimate way to run health innsurance. Group health insurance rates are based on the health of all the people covered by the plan. If there are a lot of employees covered by a plan, then the costs don't vary so much with each individual's health. If there are only a few employees, one employee can run the costs up significantly for the others. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Why should employees pay more for health insurance because one of their coworkers has other health problems that runs the cost of insurance up? The majority of health problems are self-inflicted, so I'm not sure how smoking is all that much different. In a small office where there are few employees, one person with health problems drives the cost up significantly for everyone. It's just life. People don't always take care of themselves the way they should, and smoking is just one way that folks choose to hurt themselves. Good thing is, though, that the cost of a group policy can only go up to 149% (I think) of the average individual policy that the insurance company provides...something like that. Age, alone, of one employee in a small office can get us to that ceiling. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

I think his party only does that in private. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Only a true liberal would believe they they should be able to control another persons life. ...as if a woman's right to choose what happens with regard to her own life isn't somehow involved in that statement. Umm....somebody needs to put down the crack pipe, but being somewhat of a liberal where those kinds of things are concerned, I'll leave that choice to the person smoking crack...lol. linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

And men have no say in the decision as to if their child is "terminated" or not? Sounds fair. So much for "equal rights". A man's first and best decision in the matter is to choose carefully the person with whom he chooses to reproduce. I believe abortion when both lives aren't fatally threatened is wrong. I also believe that my beliefs are mine to apply to me. All I'm saying is that whether I think it's murder or not, as long as woman is gestating, the decision for how to complete the process is hers and no one else's to make. (ed.spelling) I agree, men should have a say. As soon as we can figure out how to make the fetus grow outside a woman's uterus, then he should have a choice to keep the developing fetus himself if she decides to terminate her pregnancy. -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Interesting. I think it would be mean and cruel to knowingly have a child with DS. That because you judge "quality of life" from a very myopic point of view Me and the 55% of voters, apparently. I don't see it as cruel to bring a child with Down Syndrome into the world. I just think I'd be a horrible parent for the kiddo. It would be cruel to a child with DS to get me for a parent, so I'd probably terminate the pregnancy. Is that rude? linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

Well, you'd get your way. You'd get good healthcare and probably never pay a penny, even for your meals and satellite tv. If I were you (or anyone in that situation), I'd prefer not to be such a drain and accept a little responsibility for myself. That being said, I'm making quite a lot of money right now as a physician. Funny thing is, though, that the biggest part of my income comes from a government-subsidized program that I'm the medical director for. I get paid by taxpayers to do next to nothing. That's government efficiency. The rest of my income comes from the private sector/private insurance. I work REALLY long, hard hours for that. I have no doubt that my income, if broken down into an hourly wage, would compete with that of most folks with a B.S. In one field or another. Meanwhile, I'm grateful for those taxpayer dollars that are allowing me to sunbathe in the buff this afternoon with Toby Keith coming clear over my outdoor Klipsch speakers.... Thank you federal health programs. :) Linz -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

You Ignore the word Free there, heavily subsidised means you may have to pay for some (subsidised) pain killers once you leave the hospital. You will not be charged for any treatment made in the hospital. I have first hand experience with this, do you? How do you suggest that is bad. "Nobody can be refused emergency care because they cannot pay, although they may be sent a bill later." Sounds kinda like you may be paying out of pocket for health care to me. "Treatment after an accident is free OR heavily subsidised...." That's an important OR. Sounds likely that patients will be paying out of pocket for health care to some degree or other. Don't see anything in there about having to pay something for pain killers only. Where do you read that? linz edited to add: if I were to get injured in New Zealand, I would certainly pay for the healthcare that I received. I would not expect y'all to pick up my tab. If I were unable to pay....well, then how the hell did I get to NZ anyway???? -- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail