Liemberg

Nope, in my country also forbidden http://geography.about.com/cs/countries/a/numbercountries.htm "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

From personal experience I tend to say you feel a sense of pressing urgence - it is after all a big planet "comming up" and its aimed right at you To rephrase it: Hitting the ground in a stable body position should produce a symmetrical crater... In the past there has been a lot of debate about "inertia" and "spinning". At the risk of professor John Kallend comming after me with a bat for "unauthorised teaching of physics"

To me, that question seems as old as RW itself. The next question - that determines the practical outcome and is therefore much more interesting for the newbie skydiver is: "once considered good enough to jump with, when do I actually get on the load?" For your instructor you were good enough to jump with (assuming you came from AFF training) and since he is supposed to be the expert, once you are signed off you are good enough to jump with anybody else that has some RW experience. You probably will not kill yourself or your jumping buddies. But then - though you are not a complete nobody anymore, being licensed and all - unfortunately you got no buddies... Even worse, if you had boobies it wouldn't be that hard to find buddies, but since you have pimples...O well...

I don't know what you were thinking when you deleted my response to Stratostar (who frantically waved that he wanted me to clear my front garden since it was his designated crater area) but IMHO it was not only snappy, but right on topic. Then again - since you'r the gardener here...

Let me see if I can get this straight: If I put a monkey in charge of my place, you must obey the monkey or leave my place - whatever the size of your Babalui. In your case (as with a lot of other skydivers) a large female gorilla seems not like such a bad plan to go with... Just picture the conversation: Large Female Gorilla: "You were way to low on that pull - I could spot your Babalui!" Jungleman: "That doesn't mean shit - I am widely known for the enormous size of my Babalui - They don't call me Jungleman for nothing!" Large Female Gorilla: "I'm not Impressed - as a Female Gorilla I must say I have seen larger ones..." Jungleman: "I'l write a letter of complaint! I have the biggest Babalui in the Northern hemisphere" Large Female Gorilla: "Don't come around here anymore - next time I chew them of and use them as an appetiser or a small snack in between meals..." Jungleman:"Now you've done it! Not only will I write a letter of complaint but I'll also flash my Babalui all over the internet - everybody will be impressed and even you will have to admit that they are huge! Besides, what do monkeys know about skydiving?" Large Female Gorilla:"Have a nice day and pleeeezzzz close the office door behind you on your way out...

Ok, so if the uppers are cranking at 40mph, and giving the proper delay between groups means that half the otter load lands off field in an area with poor outs we should ............ Fill in the blank for me please, because I think it is better to give proper seperation. Obviously you didn't think about other possibilities. Pity... You didn't say however that "the uppers are cranking @ 40 mph" and "I'm not capable to handle an off field landing" - that, of course, does limit your options... As for "filling in the blanks" - consult your friendly local S&TA... keep in mind however that second passes under circumstances CAN give you poorer separation.

If it's all the same with you guys, I'll threath reaching my opening altitude while still in freefall in the future as an emergency... What are you supposed to do when you happen to be in a cloud at that time - swim out of it sideways?

Ever thought about the possibility that in certain circumstances the mere "making a second pass" could be sacrificing safety? You might be dropping into obstacels in the form of friends under parachute @ different altitudes that are (like yourself) through a quirk of faith less than the prescribed distance away from clouds and therefore may turn up in the last instance just as you are opening a parachute... That is asuming that on a clear blue sky day you can always spot all the open canopies underneath from altitude... You don't want to hit the one you missed - now do you? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

"You want some cheese with that whine?" Actually, about some people it is said that their contribution to this whole thing is so valuable that it is almost impossible to put a monetary value to it. So many others feel excused for not even trying...

Highly experienced pilot (flies the turbine Porter) made a couple of mistakes when stepping into an less familiar type aircraft since there weren't enough jumpers to justify firing up the turbine one more time at the end of the day. Started the C182 with a bit too much throtle (and without the hand break fully pulled) in stead of reducing power he changed prop speed (two handles right next to each other) - effectivly making the C182 go faster into the parked Toyota in stead of bringing it to a halt. (And yes, my first reaction was also: "This Cannot Be Happening - I'm Going Mad!!!" ) Goes to show that IF you screw up, likely it is not (as most of the more experienced tend to think) because of a set of outlandish and completely unforseeable circumstances - you'll be screwing up like a complete moron, just like the rest of the humans...

Toyota Hi Ace Van versus Cessna 182... In terms of survival the Cessna won since the Toyota was declared a total loss while de C182 will be flying again next season, but in monetary terms it was a clear victory for the Toyota... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

That's why in several countries risers count as part of the container and "the non certified main parachute" starts at the connector links and ends again at the bridle attachment ... If nothing else, it also prevents swopping mains until they end up with reversed mini-risers on rigs that are not suited for those. Combined with a bag lock / low drag malfunction and a slight head down attitude - often associated with high speed emergency procedures - this has proven that it can be lethal. Of course, it is more work swopping canopies at the connector links and like others "I have committed sins in the eyes of the Lord" , but if everybody at least had someone (who knows what he's looking for) look at it when "swopping at the risers", "unwanted excitement" can be prevented... WANTED excitement can be highly entertaining

We did a bunch with even smaller passengers on the 'classical' Strong harness. Usually we have 2 pull up cords to prevent the upper chest strap from moving down (TI's shoulders are wider than those of the kid/small female in front - this tends to move the chest strap down). Caution however - you don't want to strangle them with the chest strap on opening. When the leg straps were "at their smallest" and still wouldn't stay in place since the upper leg was too skinny, we have jumped with maximum extended legstraps, twice around the leg. They don't arch very good then - but they are small to begin with... Final notes: You often have to "outfly their legs" since you can't get a hold of them with your legs if they are somewhere you don't want them. Your opening will be slooowwwww and will require the slider to be pumped down ... and you better be very critical about high wind and turbulence since your wingload is a lot less than you are used to. Of course, it is always @ the discretion of the local TI "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

To make matters even worse: On your way down, the temperature of the air around you will typically rise 0,6 C per 100 meter Our brain anticipates that while our asses freeze by the door in slow climbing aircrafts. Psychology and physics - the most powerful combination on the planet!

Successively? Or simultaneously?

Scary pictures! 1. Did you show them to the TI's involved and explain your concerns? 2. What was their reaction? (If ratings are pulled nowadays for loose-sidestraps-making-more-interesting-freefall-video, this shows that there are more candidates with the zipper undone that should take the time to re-evaluate harness adjustment...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

That's always nice to hear, especially from you; but since you DO know a lot more about the subject: Do you think it could be a viable option*) for those of us jumping smaller tandem main canopies (whatever you think about the wisdom of that) to have 4 ring risers to prevent possible hard cutaway problems with the violent spins those canopies can produce in case of malfunctions? Or are there mechanical disadvantages, is it harder to produce, would the TSO be void? (Don't know what canopies you would allow in Vectors and Sigma's but do know what is available and that some of us are living and jumping in non-US legal systems/background - i.e. notwithstanding possible legal problems for US manufacturers, there's no "central world parachuting authority" to prevent this...) *) Option as in ordering a set of four ring tandem risers for the trusted old Vector / Sigma, straight from the original manufacturer ... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Can I say "respectfully disagreeing"? OK - respectfully disagreeing it is then... The Atom reversed mini-riser The Advance tandem riser Both pics are from the manuals - don't know if they are up to date... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Though there's always an element of chance, for myself I try to keep 'luck' out of the equasion as much as possible. Meanwhile, a little bird told me that the French (you know: those funny speaking people from the country where the first ever parachute jump was made in 1797) did ground-tests comparing cut-away forces on 3 ring and 4 ring systems. On a load of 540kg the 3 ring system in their test set up needed 12 kg to cut away, while the 4 ring system needed 4 kg on that same load of 540kg. Since these results were consistent (less pull force on the 4 rings) it seems clear to me that the solution is already there. Just a matter of convincing Bill and Ted that it is 'a minor modification not voiding the TSO' and they should start offering 4 ring risers for those of us who want them... (I'm game!

But these are two different things. It could be that it is smarter NOT to penalize the relativly overweight passenger, reduce the TI's pay for the smallest passengers (ducking, hiding - where did I leave my asbestos pants? ) and use that money as a premium for the lightweight tandemmaster taking the larger passenger, all the while not overloading the system... Then you would have an incentive to take the big guys and nobody would feel discriminated. BTW: I have a scale and use it on occasion. AND people lie about their weight when they want to make the parachute jump... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Load your risers evenly all the way through the opening meanwhile preventing your passenger from swinging you both into a few twists?

(Just replying to the last post in the thread) I cannot find back where I got it on their website (http://www.basik.fr/) but I got a (pdf)manual from the European "Advance" tandem. Interesting there is that it has a FOUR ring system in stead of a 3 ring which may have to do with both reducing pull force and allowing for stronger risers (dont know, just guessing...). Also they have a different housing for the cut-away cable. I'll try to point Jerome Bunker (who is also on the forums now and then) towards this discussion here - maybe he has something to add... (Like "why the four rings in stead of three / why the different end on the cable housing") Maybe we can have our cake and eat it too...

But since you are not sure about that beforehand, there's always the possibility that some of them are less covinced - even if they at first appear to be just as "young, dumb & full of c$%..." as the next one. Remember, it is THEM you are addressing when you tell them once more that the wheel is already invented and that 'roundness' is indeed the winning design concept... Unfortunatly most of the time it is only those on which it was all wasted that make the headlines and/or the incident forum while those that secretly think "hmmm - maybe old sparky did have a point there" you never hear from again since they enjoy the sport in relative safety jump after jump. Other than that: What made you so grumpy and moody today; old war wounds itching terribly?

I love my HOP330 just as much but I'm reluctant to take it up with big guys / long legs after an "interesting" experience with a passenger from that category who induced a turn on opening. Mattaman has a point.(though I managed to get away with it and didn't experience a realy hard pull on the cutaway...) Its not about steering the ship in calm weather - its about preserving it in a storm with cattle at large in the hold. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I thought cutters were supposed to cut when prompted by an electrical current, severing the loop. To carry on with wild and far fetched analogies (since you are letting all sorts of cattle in): Suppose you had 2 chain saws - one can be used on oak, pine, mahogany - even to massacre half the state of Texas. The other one get's stuck on a branch. Maybe used the wrong lubricant, maybe sawing at the wrong angle, maybe only suited to trim the hedge. Now all of a sudden there's a bush fire, you are a smoke jumper and you have to cut down a tree RIGHT NOW, to prevent the fire from spreading to the next valley. FOR THE TIME BEING, which one would YOU want to take with you on this assignment? Of course, that judgment may change in time and you learn that chain saw number 2 works just fine - always use Aeroshell w50, saw at 45 degree angle, whatever. OR you bought yourself a nice hedge trimmer - but you don't own a garden... OR: you are jumping a system with the cutter underneath the pilot chute but above the freebag, you pull your reserve near "the basement" and as your pilot chute is launched but before the reserve bridle is pulling your cutter is prompted by an electrical current. There's no more tension on the loop since your pilot chute just left and your cutter clamps itself on the loop, right above the grommet on top of your freebag. Congratulations - you just turned a cutter into a temporary locking pin... Of course I'm not saying that this above scenario CAN happen, just telling Aviacom SA that THEY should convince "US" that it cannot. And my definition of "cannot" is different from "highly improbable" - try "physically impossible" - whining that Jo is mean to them, Jerome has but a small factory and most of the world doesn't know where Holland is doesn't convince ME. If Aviacom SA wants to beat Airtec there is at least ONE thing they can do better than Airtec did in the past when they were told that highly loaded canopies in extreme maneuvers could prompt a reserve opening and they chose that shooting the messenger was the best option... And now I return to my den, licking my wounds and mourning over another internet-discussion lost... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...