Liemberg

Edited by slotperfect: Some time from now, if someone does a forum search for this topic and finds this thread, they may not understand the context of your reply - albeit quite witty! I think it's best if I take it out so nobody takes your comment literally.

Compared to the 'snatch / shock' it gets to endure during an occasional drogue throw after 10 seconds of freefall? I'd be surprised... Besides, the sitflyer in the picture holds hands with the passenger but flies on his own air. The only problem I see is premature openings and their undesired side effects. Right from underneath the tandempair it can get very ugly very fast. Of course things like that can happen on any hybrid but then usually none of the participants is a sitting duck who is trailing a drogue while firmly strapped to a third party who doesn't know what the f&*# is going on... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

If you are going to hang from a tandem and have your picture taken while doing it - do everybody a favor and consider the benefits of jumpsuits over T-shirts... They'd better watch out for Zorro's revenge over there... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

From the typical way the TI keeps his left hand we may safely conclude he has an altimeter there, though it isn't visible in the picture. A couple of years ago we saw in (I think) Skydiving Mag a picture of a standup on the back of the tandempair and the manufacturer told everybody he was not amused - seeing issues with premature deployment of the tandem. This year I saw a video of a reserve opening on a freeflyer in headdown. ("Ouch!...") I don't know how it is with you but when I'm doing a tandem I'm in the middle of a cylinder of "forbidden airspace". No mexicans allowed there. No "Flyboyzz" allowed there either. Even Olav Zipser not welcome there. But I dislike pictures like these with recognisable faces in the forums. If Stratostar wanted to illustrate a safety issue (where we all know that in some places and circumstances ratings or jobs could be at stake) he could have photoshopped his own pic on both of them...(hat, sunglasses, beard... for all I know he IS a mexican in disguise...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Well, what I was saying was that most people instinctively perceive the added dangers of "advanced landing maneuvers" if they see them performed just once. Like: "Steep dive + last second parallel to ground + high speed surf = possibly hurting / always extra danger" vs. "Straight in + nice flare = I'll be all right" A bit like seeing Wilhelm Tell showing his proficiency with a bow and arrow and yet being reluctant to place an apple on top of your head... On the other one that Stratostar placed (picture of freeflyer hanging underneath the tandem) I'm sure that the passenger there will think it is all fun and games, doesn't see any added danger and won't ask "Hey before we do this, has the freeflyer checked the free lenght of his reserve ripcord and the condition of the main loops?" "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Well then explain why one of my TI's ALWAYS explains to those passengers who saw him land with his own 'pocket rocket' that the landing on the tandemparachute will be quite different from what they just witnessed and the passenger after that explanation ALWAYS sighs in relief?

Problem @ hand wasn't a handle prematurely pulled but a students ripcord housing that got snagged, came out and formed a loop near the drogue handle and then the TI pulled the drogue through that loop... This could happen even if your right hand is on the handle when the students housing is not in some way tucked away... The solution with the students handle on the TI's right hip (and the housing permanently secured to the master's rig) seems superior IMHO for those that insist that the student should have an opportunity to pull. Housings kept in place with some waxcord can't be floating around near the drogue handle and we may safely derive Murphy's second law from the first: "If it cannot happen it will not"

Actually, it was ME, MYSELF, I in the role of Mr. Murphy, packing a rig for a fellow tandem instructor who *as-u-med* that since it came out of the hands of the DZO himself, nothing could possibly be wrong with the rig and - in a hurry - boarded without thoroughly checking... I had somehow managed to get one cable through both loops and the other one through just one. As luck would have it, he had both ripcords at his disposal and followed procedures, ending up under the main just slightly lower... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Then again, if the 'delivery of the knowledge' gets in the way and the instructor is drawn into a pissing contest in stead of delivering the knowledge, he is wasting his time anyway. The most efficient instructor also takes that into his deliberations. It may be a 'chicken and egg'-discussion, but when invariably the same thing happens over and over again (someone asks a question in one of the forums, you chime in with sound advice, one or two others that already made five coach-jumps and spotted 3 cessna loads also chime in and "here we go again"...) I think there is a big difference between teaching as it is normally done in 99+ % of the cases at hand and (recreational) skydiving instruction. At your real job people are PAID to be instructed by you. At the DZ it is them that pay (well maybe not you and certainly not enough, but often it costs them money to listen to you...) That brings you in the same realm as the skiing instructor with one major difference and that is that you teach survival skills. When there 'the knowledge' isn't delivered correctly or misunderstood, the student may be in trouble. In my experience they fundamentally respect that - though nervousness can make them "louder" than you find desirable in your classroom. But the nature of the forum dictates that no one (except the head honcho) can claim the forum as his classroom. I think I and others get as frustrated by that fact as you often seem to be. But contrary to the situation you may find yourself in when at the DZ where you more or less can dictate at the end of a discussion what the do's and don'ts are (well, at least I can

Me too!

Don't like to do monday morning coaching especially when the game was already won (all walked away unhurt, didn't they?

Well at least it would be me doing the cluttering myself... Refreshing change, IMO...

The classifieds section has a neat feature where the website forwards questions, remarks etcetera to the sellers (i.e. the advertisers) email. Now I know that if I were not incurably lazy, I could copy-paste what I wrote to who into a textfile, for future reference. But alas, I am.

I agree with you on the necessity of PLF being in the 'bag of tricks' for every solo skydiver. 'In synch' rolling with a non-trained person while we are attached at the shoulders doesn't appeal to me though... To many variables. I prefer the 'fly the canopy all the way to the ground & carefully select canopy / landing area / weather conditions' approach.If I already made a mistake there, i might try and save the day with some last instance sideways rolling/sliding, while my student is stil trying to keep his feet away from the ground as long as possible. Haven't done that in several years and I do not mention it as a 'technique' when briefing tandemstudents for landings. So, all that doesn't do students any good when they come away from the tandem experience with the feeling they don't have to pay attention during the landing part of solo training for student canopies, since they 'already know how to land'. I tell them it's a different ball game. It's up to them if they believe me or not. People that get hurt don't look stylish - whatever color coordinated equipment they are wearing... So there's no real comparison. My choice would therefore be "don't get hurt and keep looking stylish" "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

OK - fine, but if before the next tandem briefing I spend half an hour on teaching my tandemstudent a good PLF and on landing shout "PLF" - what do you think the results would be? And - if all students that did prior tandems were the innocent victim of "muscle memory" teached wrongly by their tandeminstructors, how come they flare at all? Mine ought to be making 'no flare landings' with their hands grabbing at the side of their knees, pulling their legs up, if what you say is true... Butt slides do happen with solo students that forget / ignore their solo training. It would be smarter if they didn't do that. I resent the idea that I teached them and that I am therefore responsible somehow for the grim result of wrongly executed ones. And your grandma would be better of on a no wind day with a tandemmaster sliding it in in the tall gras than trying to stand it up / run it out with 95 kg of tandemmaster at her back... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I was in the local supermarket this afternoon and they had a special offer for the new 'safety-vest'. This bright orange thing reflects headlights and probably it IS a good idea to wear it when you are jogging late at night since the driver of a car that you see the headlights of might not see you and since you are deserving all the protection modern society can 'give' despite your brainlessnes, this thing is of course far better then running on the opposite side of the road and being extra careful. (what were you THINKING, all these years...) The ad on the package told me that these things were 'required by law' in several other countries This suggest of course that I might as well buy it now, just to be on the safe side Meanwhile, the safest car, from a pedestrians viewpoint, is - contrary to popular believe - not a SUV with a cowbar up front and airbags around all the occupants, but one completely made of glass, with a 10 centimeter knife sticking out of the steering column that is aimed right at the drivers throat. (All safety bufs know of course that cars kill people far more easily outside them than inside them - the beast can bite you anytime when you are innocently walking down the street, but once inside its belly, most of the times it is pretty harmless, in comparison; to even the odds car industry came up with the airbag that - when you carelessly kill your neighbors children through reckless driving - will take a shot at your own child... ) Even natural blondes would probably remember not to have a child in their lap when driving the "crystal GTI dagger"!

If you did that (sinking), I could be next to you within 10 meters distance and there's no harm done. If I'm 'overtaking' and you go "ZIG", while I predicted you to go "zag", we might end up inside eachothers lines @ 300 feet. Not good. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Looks remarkable like the one I bought second-hand in 1982. That one has seen his share of barrigo's, saphire's and ft-50's come and perish and was still used as a students altimeter, last season... That answer your question? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

No you cant That is the ORIGINAL FLITE SUIT LOGO! This makes out 95% of the immense value of the suit. It would be an act of barbarism if you removed it! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Don't know about metal rods - we used to have a piece of wood attached. Two decades ago @ my old club the widi landed on a horse, the horse "got scared and ran away" (don't know the expresion in English), was hurt and the owner claimed that it was trained to become a jumping horse and was now worthless. The clubs insurance company paid a large sum (they DO have their off-days....

Funny conversation I witnessed last year: "You have several thousand jumps and you don't have a license? How can you jump without a license?" "That's easy - take a parachute and jump. In fact it is a lot easier and survivable with a parachute and without a license than the other way around..." And if I may ad one remark about the real subject of the thread: like you, I always tell beginners that this is learning by doing and that they obviously will make mistakes. Since mistakes are inevitable they should err on the side of caution. After a bad spot there's nothing wrong with walking a mile, modestly contemplating the learning proces; swimming a mile OTOH... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I'm fairly ignorant about USPA rules and regulations (for I'm not a member) but do know that you are on the USPA-board.(?) So: ($64000 Question...) What is your position and for that matter the boards position on "recommendations"? Even if what Brian Germain wrote down isn't the Alpha and Omega of smart canopy selection and flavors may vary, it IS clear IMO that "some wingloads are more forgiving than others". 'For instance, I don't think there is one large canopy manufacturer who doesn't say with all different types he wants to sell to his different customers things like "Student / Intermediate / Advanced / Expert" Now in Holland, before they suddenly saw the light ( ) it used to be that there was a sentence in our BSR's that said the equipment used had to be "suited for the jump intended". That can (and did) work as a "one size fits all"-regulation because it would give DZO's / Instructors / S & TA's the possibility to say to the young afficionado "look here boy, this parachute you want to jump is not suited for the jump intended..." So if I felt the need to "hit a dog", I already had a big stick to do it with...

YOU SHOULD NOT BE HERE, RIGHT NOW! NOW DON'T GET DISTRACTED WITH ONGOING DISCUSSIONS ABOUT DOWNSIZING CHARTS BUT MEDITATE ABOUT FLYING YOUR SLOT AND SENDING GOOD VIBES THROUGH THE FORMATION!!!

Normally, after a remark like that I would be out of here... So, dyslectics should seek their entertainment elsewhere? I have jumped with several great and talented skydivers that couldn't get one coherent sentence on paper if their life depended on it and I have found out that most of that type don't process written information all that well. They have to SEE someone do something, maybe talk about it a bit with the one they see perform the feat, try it themselves and presto - they perform! That is why - in a FJC - I not only hand out a booklet and show stuff on video, but also talk to them "until their ears fall of". (And this is a two way street of course, I want them to talk too...) I end up with people who slept through this long talking session (but understood the booklet thoroughly), others that "skipped the booklet" (but picked up most of it from "dry training on the ground" and watching the video's), still others that "wake up for the first time" when they are in a suspended harness and FEEL cutaway pads, ripcords and toggles in their hands and others that combine a bit of everything. HOWEVER: the parachute they then jump afterwards is suited for the task at hand, which means it wouldn't give them a 'snowballs chance in hell' to end up in the top fifty of any organized swooping event, but OTOH makes it difficult for them to kill themselves if they make a too radical turn too close to the ground. It steers like a 1990 barge, but then again, it doesn't stall easily either... Well, with a chart that is "enforced" (or even only promoted as a really good "USPA endorsed" idea where you at least would have some explaining to do should you ignore it), a greedy DZO/instructor type (like me ) is not able to sell as easy as now his "as good as new" Stiletto 135 to a slightly overweighted "former race driver" who is lead to believe that autosport background and a "can do" mentality works wonders on the solidity of the femurs... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

AND So.... when doing freefall training we need personal instruction, one-on-one coaching and now that we get the students this far that we are pretty sure they end up with a parachute above their head before they are back on the ground (without falling into eachtothers parachute) we say "OK, fine - now that you are under a parachute I need to tell you one small detail and that is, you are not home free, you have to land this thing too and when it's the latest 'sports-model' that is not always easy and you could kill yourself trying, but hey, here are three booklets, a video and a DVD, be sure to study this all carefully..."? And when someone craters under a fully functional parachute we tell the grieving relatives "Hey, the manual was there but maybe he didn't read it all to well..."? There is little SUCCESSFUL education in practical abilities that when carried out wrong have the potential to kill you, without personal student/teacher type instruction. For that, you need a coach. And like it or not, when you want to buy his time (like on a day with good jumpable weather) he could also make money doing tandems... You'r shelled completely in a carbonfiber monococque when you swoop? Your parachute has roll-bars, five-point seat belt and air bags? Mine hasn't. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...