Liemberg

Foreigner with a dictionary, indeed. Actually, I think it was the infamous Snuffy Smith (the loudest mouth on rec.skydiving) who can take credit. "Funky dude with genital disease"?!?!? It isn't as if I is speaking Frunchie, now is it? (Funny: While the English and the Dutch were speaking about 'French disease". the French were speaking about 'maladie italien' - makes you wonder what the italians were saying...'malattia venerea', according to my dikkunary - sounds as if they blamed the venetians, who traveled among the arabs and everybody knows that - oh well...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Dont have too. It falls under the 'its free when you are Drew Barrymore / Jenifer Lopez / Cameron Diaz / Britney Spears / insert name of 100 other famous people " rule and you don't object to the DZ posting your happy face on their website AND / OR mention where you jumped on the David Letterman show... They can come and sit on my lap anytime...(I would even take David Letterman for free - provided he kept his clothes on...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Since I started posting here a couple of weeks ago blasting away like I was on 'wreck dot' again I lately realised I never introduced myself. How impolite. My name is of course my name, I jump since 1979 and have a place of my own (can I mention it? can I? www.skydive-ameland.nl nobody can read what is there anyway - but eat your hart out, I never pay for my jumps hehehe...) Sometimes you'll find me hard to understand. That isn't you, but is due to the fact I don't think in your language. I have to translate everything I want to say here in English / American. I'm a foreigner with a dictionary. (nowadays a computerprogram; it doesn't translate but it is faster than a book...) Then again, when I leave an airplane simultaneously with other dutchmen we don't say 'Klaar, Zet Ga!' but we say 'Ready Set Go' like normal skydivers... My spelling stinks - but now you know why... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Well what can I say, except that you are not supposed to wrap it around anything.Then again, as I said, I do prefer to close it myself. (One of those "By the time I learned you youngsters the trick I've done it myself ten times...") But we are off-topic now I guess and Billvon is coming after me with a bat "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I am slightly biased towards pull-out, jumping one since 1984 but I remember (even from back then) that people had occasional hard pulls on them. In my country it went as far as a complete ban on pull outs for anyone below C license (which was 200 jumps at that time) I thought that to be stupid then (it was later corrected) since IMHO these were all 'rigging errors'. A modern pull-out has a piece of webbing at the base of the pilotchute. In that webbing is a grommet and a piece of webbing with a straight pin on one side and a pud on the other side goes through that grommet. Never seen such a setup give a hard pull. The old system with a piece of suspensionline in a complicated knot was/is 'hard-pull-prone'. I hardly see that one anymore. If someone packs for me I usually tell them to leave it open with a pull-up cord in it and the pilot chute on top since they usualy don't know what they are doing at that point. I need 60 seconds to close it, which indeed is slightly more than the time needed to check what I am putting on my back. (This is almost the same as with our Strong-tandems where our packers always leave the mains top flap 'unstowed' since any tandemmaster worth his salt wants to check the drogue 3ring, its release handles and the bridle routing... combine the last part of the packjob with an equipment check and gain peace of mind...) Back on topic with Kevins malfunction (and maybe another recent one with pictures where I saw a reservepin 'coming from the wrong direction'): One wonders how these can be missed when you look at them, but actually the explanation is quite simple. Once the 'magic of the pin check ritual' has worn a bit you will notice that there is 'never' anything wrong with the equipment you are checking. Through my jumping career I must have checked several thousand rigs prior to boarding and I distinctly remember most if not all the anomalies that would have lead to a malfunction, like misrouted bridles, pull up cords and such. So on good grounds I EXPECT to see 'nothing wrong'. The human mind - being a funny thing - is verry capable of seeing what it expects to see instead of seeing what is actually there. Unfortunate but true. And a phenomenon to remember from now on when you check your own rig or your friends one... Anyway, this soapbox may not be my rightful place for I myself have proven my ability to route a passengers drogue release through both the loops of the 3-ring on a tandem, thus giving the tandemmaster a 'drogue-release' with only a decorative function...Since I, "the chief", packed it myself and the plane was waiting he skipped the check he normally does...A learning moment for both of us... EXPECTATIONS CAN KILL YOU (luckily this one didn't, but nevertheless...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***Excuse my complete ignorance, but what exactly do you mean by drogue side up or down? Does this refer to the side you grab the drogue hackey? Yes "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Works fine for me too in most cases. Do a bit more ground work with the student 'arms in, head on my shoulder & feet on my bum' - train them for five minutes more and avoid all sort of unpleasant surprises... However, sometimes they 'forget what the plan was' and become quite a handful... Tall guys, with long legs and a mind of their own... I honestly don't know what I'm doing exactly if it happens. I think it can be best described with 'go with the flow*) and exercise maximum opportunism...**)' *) 'go with the flow' = When you try and arch yourself out of something that starts to make a revolution, and then another one, you are doing something wrong... **) maximum opportunism = you dont get brownie points for style, you get them for tossing the drogue at the earliest safe opportunity

Got to jump in with one of my funniest (happened a couple of years ago) A guy came to my place after he was diagnosed with A.L.S. Like most of you, I had never heard of that (rare) disease, but apparently this is The Big One: The jackpot nobody wants because what the doctor tells you is that your life expectancy has diminished to less than a year and "sorry to inform you but there is no known cure at the time..." Because of the disease and the fact that it was rapidly deteriorating his muscular control my passenger informed me beforehand ("One of the things I want to do before I go but do you think I'll still be able to etc...") In fact we had several conversations over the phone before he arrived at the DZ. He was extremely nervous about the jump and I am sure he never would have done it if not for the bad news the doctor gave him. (Hard to grasp for the bunch over here, but some people think about parachuting this way...) I worked out how to get him out of the door and how to land him safely, saw no problem and up we went. Didn't pay much attention to all the normal stuff you would say about the way passengers are attached to the parachutes, since we were merely focused on the physical constraints and how to struggle ourselves out of the door of the Cessna 182. (He was 85 kg...) All went well (we came out, I was able to control him in freefall, I pulled.) Of course, as luck would have it, there was a beautiful malfunction above our heads: slider up, three outer cells "gone" and pumping the steering toggles didn't work at all. A mess. While struggling with it I unconsciously uttered a swearword or two - rather loud I'm afraid, then I accepted the unavoidable and chopped it. First reaction of my passenger: "When I heard you cursing and then felt myself falling again, I thought you had cut away ME and that my life was gonna end right here and right now...boy am I glad you're still with me!"

***'North Sea' ? ---------- Yes, a keen observation Johan, the North Sea is some 2000 meter to the North of our place. Mind you, I said over Holland. Besides, you violate some regulations when you actually jump (blindfolded or) through clouds so we don't do that... We also stop jumping a bit earlier when on hot summer days a huge black wall of clouds appears from the south of the island and the radar images *) tell us that they contain a thunderstorm. And students don't get to jump with strong southerly uppers since 2 years ago some bloke under a square (!) proved on his first jump that with the right conditions you still couldn't reach Norway but you could give it your best shot. Had he been under a round he might have busted his ankle but he would have remained dry. Then again we would have missed a whole show with a life-boat and a rescue helicopter. He was under the misconception that parachutes always should move forward in relation to the ground. When he aimed at the land he moved backwards. When he aimed at the sea 'the parachute worked just fine, thank you...' Since he didn't want to end up in the sea, he used his brakes as much as possible - thereby reducing his downward speed and keeping him longer exposed to the strong uppers... *) I get 'rainradar' in near-real-time (5 minutes delay) on my computerscreen. Don't you love the internet?

***Ich bin einfach Amerikaner. Wir nehmen es dir nicht übel... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***Anyone who's been jumping for less than 20 years has probably never jumped a round at all and the first time they pull their reserve they're going to be like a first jumper without training. ------------------------------------ Uhmmm.... well, there you have it. I use round reserves in all the static-line student rigs, but I train people to do PLF's the way I was trained to do them. Usually, they walk away unhurt. I think it is much safer when there is a two canopies out situation (no downplane possible) and somehow I find that more likely to happen with beginners. I got ramairs in my own rig and (of course) the tandem rigs. Wouldn't have a problem though jumping my student rigs (easy for me to say, + 90 round jumps... A concussion ages ago had something to do with jumping a TU7 in 20 knots of wind... OMG, I'm as old as Winsor... ) Another observation from a trained geographer: Throw somebody 'blindfolded' out of an airplane through the clouds over Holland. What is the most likely landing spot? We have a winner with 'pasture' (92% probability in the Netherlands & remember we are one of the most densely populated countries in the world...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***hmmm, should I have this thread moved to the women forum? ------------------------ A better place to satisfy my curiosity? (Then again, I think we know the answer already. Not much point in crunching numbers over it... Anyway, I can ignore dishwashing and laundry as well as the next guy ) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***I had tried explaining to non-jumping friends and family but in vain. I have argued my right to live my own life. Argued that being a parent does not mean choosing to be tied to the ground. I still try to explain but I have resolved myself that those few who question still will question forever. __________________________________________________ An observation: When I became a (male) parent, 'nobody noticed' as far as skydiving was concerned. Yet, women around me have left the sport after becoming a parent. Now I can imagine that females have to stop for a year or so, but from that point on it must have either been 'peer pressure' or their own choice. From experience I can tell that it is possible to change diapers between packing parachutes (though I wouldn't recommend hard core 4way training), BUT nobody even mentioned it to me and I am sure it must have been mentioned to all the mothers. (I even witnessed how a skydiving friend tried to talk his ex-wife out of resuming jumping after a five year lay off - she had over 500 jumps at the time...) Poll: How many women you know that left the sport after they became a parent? How many men? And why? Just curious... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***RSL's are for students, low time jumpers and people who aren't able to pull their own handles! Ummmm... Tandemmasters? (Ah, but they need a drogue to become half way stable, so...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Was sagt man auf Deutsch wenn man meint der Ander solte aufhören mit "Whining"? Buy a Dikkunary! BTW I know a Norwegian who can write in a dutch 'Gastenboek' and I managed to write in his 'Gjestebøk' - how hard can it be? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***I was reading a thread related to skydiving videos which include fatalities and this question popped into my head: "If I happened to record a jump where someone died... what should I do with the tape?" ------------------ That is up to you. It's your tape isn't it? As long as I don't have to watch it myself if I play the leading part. (Thank God for small favors...) From experience I can tell you that TV stations will be interested when they find out a tape exists. Referring them to investigating authorities gives some peace of mind... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

***Sorry, I'm not in kindergarten anymore But it took you over 5330 posts (I only counted your iastate.edu mail adres) to grow up! Now wasn't that childish from me? ----- BTW (Of topic if Bill allows it) I tried to sign your 'Gjestebok' but the fact that it is Norwegian isn't helpful. See if you can find out how to say 'Hi' in my 'Gastenboek'... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I never really viewed Snuffy as the jumping expert. He's a people expert. Sometimes that is more than enough. AND he can stir up things, which I always found funny. But I'm no oversensitive sheep. Martin never threatened to beat me up with a bat. Maybe he will when he finds out I propose him as a Dropzone com moderator...hehehe... The internet has its limitations when you want to learn how to skydive there...Maybe it is better to consult local experts who may not be the best experts on the planet but are the only experts available locally... I mean, I dont hesitate for a moment to tell anybody at my own place what to do and what not to do but at this forum I'm not here to tell anybody else. At home my word is the full $ 200 and here it is about $ 0,02 "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

As a Newbie here with + 600 posts on rec.skydiving I got no problem being moderated by Billvon who had + 1710 posts on rec. skydiving (both according to a Google search...) If the other moderators are of the same caliber we may have a winner here... I do miss Snuffy, the sheep and the RW-queen but I don't miss personal attacks and threads deteriorating to name calling. Then again I didn't have a problem just ignoring certain aspects of rec.skydiving, most of the time. (That is: after learning the ropes...) Another observation: According to my newsreader program my last post on rec.skydiving was july 3 2002 and I replied to non other than... Martin Evans I don't know how accurate Martins observations about THIS forum are; haven't read enough and am not going to (one of my good intentions for 2003...hehehe...) I wished people like him would 'migrate' to this place, I can think of a few. Then again a quick glance already revealed a lot of rec.skydiving 'renegades' posting here nowadays. It was fun while it lasted... Maybe Sangiro should ask Martin to become a moderator here; while I was at it I found out that Martin had + 1880 posts on rec.skydiving. Combine it with +10000 jumps and being British - therefore moderated by nature ...well... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Each person needs to make a personal choice on how to handle a PC in tow, which ever way you decide to do it, stick to that plan, don't change your mind mid stream Partially agreed. Sticking to whatever plan you have is always better than revising it in freefall but it could be that you, other than the "I'm under nothing"-sensation, don't know what is going on (is my pack open? What is blocking this opening? etc.) If you jump state-of-the-art equipment it will allow you to safely cut away first even if your main container remains closed. Benefit of this procedure is of course that there is no decision other than 'reserve!'; IMHO the time consumed in the cut-away outweights the time to analyze & decide. If you are trained however to this '2 possible solutions'-scenario the psychological disadvantages of retraining outweight the slight possibility of a truly dangerous '2 canopies out mess' (those that I have seen were dealt with in the same way you handled yours - no harm done... but that is of course no 'scientific prove'...) Hey - when I was young and stupid I even ended up with a tandem drogue between my legs...went straight for the silver and survived with nothing but a bruised ego - so it's no big deal, I guess ... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

------------------------------ Broken steering line on a Strong 425 Tension knot on a Strong 425 - slider hang up Tension knot on a Strong 425 - slider hang up Drogue blocked on a Strong Tandem Line over on a ZP 170 (This is limited to last 10 years isn't it ?) Hey Bill - did we find a pattern? (The one I found is that when it is about time to replace the lines it IS time to replace the lines...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

---------------------------------------- I had a PC in tow on one of my malfunctions. I really didn't have time to think about what I was doing. After I threw out, I just laid there, wondering why I was having such a slow open. ----------------------------------------- And there you are, wondering at 200 km/h with a whole planet aimed right at you... 1. Maybe the pilotchute landed in your burble 2. Maybe you didn't cock the pilotchute 3. Maybe there is a temporary locking pin 4. Maybe a pull-up cord 5. Maybe a bag-lock 6. Maybe Gremlins DO exist Trouble is, by the time you find out you are back on terra firma. So there is not much point in differentiating on possible solutions. If you don't have the time to cut-away first then maybe you should pull 500ft higher If you don't have a rig that allows you to cut away first safely (i.e. where the main risers could block your reserve) then maybe you should see a rigger. My €/$ 0,02 (which are not 'personally' aimed at flyangel2 who I only quote since it is an accurate description of the whole psychology of the situation at hand, which is basically "I pulled and keep falling down - what next?"... Been there done that and George G still owes me a T-shirt...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...