Liemberg

Envisioning a group much like POPS? Naked? (In stead of fake-tattoos, I'would go for printed underwear. And a dated certificate, of course...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Then again, examples of 'How NOT to teach skydiving...' are all over the internet today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kfPrW9olbM&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_be7Rr-pUs&feature=related The rules are very simple "my young Grashopper", while the other guys and girls teaching you to skydive & survive don't claim sainthood in any way, but know that you have to have trust in people if you are willing to jump with them or with gear supervised by them, it is entirely up to you... they don't particularly give a crap if you gave the DZO a fistful of dollars ("Good luck getting THAT back") they will be working their asses of to bring your precious body in one piece back to the ground, just out of professional courtesy and like all humans, sometimes they F.U. There's a angry mob of greedy lawyers waiting for that to happen. Then again, in the first 'Innumeracy is a bitch' episode, the TI leaving the plane with the passenger only attached to lowers, in the final analysis he acted in such a way as the situation required and saved the day he was so busy spoiling... + 1 as we say, nowadays. I don't know if it is appropriate in this thread but I want to take the opportunity to thank all my instructors publicly. They usually bring out the best in people...(I know they would prefer a raise.. ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_keqC7S-o4 (edited to say that the video was less spectacular than I at first thought. Seen another one like that before. There IS something to say however for 'you have four hooks and I have two parachutes, I wouldn't leave the plane if I were you if I wasn't fully convinced that all for hooks were connected.' ) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

I wouldn't know. However, it seems irrelevant for the discussion since in this case the question is whether the state of Israel allowed the use of excessive force by their military or committed an act of piracy by ordering their military to enter these Turkish ships in international waters. On the first one, the jury is still out - but from your logic a weapon is not defined by its use, but by its design purpose. That's good news for anyone convicted for assault with a deadly weapon that has been using a kitchen knife in stead of a stiletto. Someone trying to bash my head in with a metal rod or trying to stab me with a knife (any knife) is not 'peacefully resisting'... On the second one there is the crystal clear text of the San Remo treaty. Israel Naval forces identified themselves, informed the other party that there WAS a naval blockade in effect for the area of their chosen destination and offered alternatives for the transfer of the humanitarian goods - without breaking the blockade. Only after that they boarded the Turkish (merchant) ships. International naval law gives them every right to do so. Comparisons with Somali pirates are completely beside the point. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Actually my comment wasn't directed towards dreamdancer (who clearly is beyond help there), I was replying to a post of Billvon - who also seems to have trouble understanding the current rules @ sea. He being a greeny in this international forum and all one would hope for some advanced reasoning... Contrary to pan-arabic / islamistic desires, Israel IS de facto a state - why else cry 'bloody murder' all the time if it was not? I mean, almost at the same time when this incident went down, 93 people were killed in an attack on two mosques in Pakistan: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/10195474.stm One would expect 10 times as many posts on THAT subject as in this 'Jewish piracy' thread. Apparently it is OK to kill people in their house of worship - as long as the killing is done by other Muslims. Now Jews on boats, that's a whole different ballgame, or so it seems. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

No. If the Somalian NAVY however (provided it existed) was enforcing a naval blockade, and wanted to board a US cargo (non-navy) ship in international waters in order to inspect it because they suspected the US cargo ship was either carrying contra band or clearly trying TO BREAK THE NAVAL BLOCKADE the treaty of San Remo (which handles these matters) gives them full authority to enforce their inspection, using any means necessary - even if that US ship had half the US peace corps on board and even if they were well outside the area where the naval blockade was enforced. Point being (probably) that warships have these big guns on deck, while merchant ships don't. (Hey - I'm Dutch. 'mare liberum' was first published by Hugo de Groot in 1609. It is considered the beginning of international naval law. Navy ships can't be pirates - unless there was first a mutiny on the Bounty...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Ghosting? Had to google that one to see what you mean.

My 'glove' is made from all sorts of scrap material: an old 'Visio' strap, an old altimeter strap, bungee cord, cypres loop material etcetera. Looks like shit, works like a charm. Didn't get around to uploading video's of tandems. However, since my kid has well over 250 jumps nowadays, and he was jumping up and down, wagging his tail and packing my parachutes (

Is there anyone else doing handcam with the VholdR contourHD? It seems to suit the needs with simple 'ease of use' , weight (136 gram, including 3hr battery), rotatable lens with a 135dgr wide angle, sturdy construction and laser pointing. So far our results are encouraging - I can playback right away (with the TV on the HDMI-out port of my laptop) and though you take more time to render the end product you gain time with capturing (swap the microSD, few clicks with the mouse and you yourself can keep on jumping, working, filming) I really do like the feature that you can rotate the lense 90 dgrs, This gives much better fotage under canopy, IMO. Opinions? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Though that one happened in the Netherlands (Hoogeveen DZ, '84 or '85) I DO remember another fatal outcome where the student responded to radio but ended up in power lines. Granted, this was a club on a boogie at a different DZ but having looked from the ground at quite a few students I can easily see how this happened. The problem in both cases is of course that 'the angle' with which you look at the student gives you no good accuracy to begin with, since you have to eyeball the distance. How do YOU know if he is going to land before an obstacle, at an obstacle or over an obstacle? How do you know what altitude the student is at if he could be 600 meters or 800 meters away? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

But a giant leap for me and my son Steven who on every occasion popped up like a champagne cork once I let him go after a linked exit. He is skinny, 57 kg with a BMI of 17, I'm over 90 kg with a BMI of 27,3 at the moment, working my way back from a BMI of over 28. We went to Bottrop (Germany) to 'sort it out' The poor kid had to wear 9kg of lead but we were successful. Since, if it isn't on video, it didn't happen: Ego trippin' in Bottrop (Great tunnel, by the way...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

And put the video on youtube.... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

There is a rather famous case in Holland where somebody was convicted for a murder he never admitted and is still fighting in the high court (to get the conviction overthrown) in which the 'Cell phone localization' played a major role. Not sure about the terminology, but they could prove that his cell phone was in contact with a certain node/ground station close to where the murder took place, during a conversation with the victim - while he maintained he was further away. However, the so called 'timing advance' registration (that give a much better localization of your whereabouts than the registration with which node your cell phone effectively makes contact DURING a call) where not available during the court case and that still leaves some doubt about this conviction - where the accused (and convicted) maintains that this would corroborate HIS story about what he was doing / where he was that evening. And yes, had they kept the 'timing advance' records longer than two months (or asked for them at the moment they asked for the actual phone records) it could have been proven once and for all if the guy was guilty or innocent or rather where he was in time and space at the night of the murder - where he said he was (and a victim of a phenomenon called 'Radio propagation' that can carry a cell phone signal further away, bypassing other nodes that may be busy during f.i. a traffic jam) or with much greater accuracy close to the scene of the crime. So, like more things in life it is a two bladed sword or as our national philosopher (and famous soccer player) Johan Cruyff likes to put it; "Every advantage has its disadvantage"... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

several Dutch news sites mention an attempt to hijack a skydiving plane in Evora, Portugal. According to that story a man (ex-militairy) who went along to make pictures pulled a gun, forced two skydivers to jump and wanted the pilot to jump also but the pilot refused and managed to cut off the fuel since he thought the man was not going to fly to Spain (as he said he would) but was planning to crash the plane in Lisbon. The pilot then made a rough landing somewhere in Portugal. After that the would be hijacker supposedly killed himself with the gun. Anybody in the know out there who can shed some light on what happened? "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

To each his own, but that said I tend to frown upon cameraflyers that take a grip on the passenger since if YOU can grab them it follows logically that they can also grab YOU. I wonder if I can control a freaked out passenger with a death grip on my camera flyer - but I'm not eager to find out... Second observation: If the hard landing that is obvious fcor anyone seeing the video was caused by a downdraft then this downdraft doesnt have any effect on the windsock visible in the background. Third observation: The tandempair not only has a high descent rate upon their arrival (wouldn't call that a landing) but IMO also a lot of froward speed. Now this can happen with a big bloke in front of you when there is no wind at all. However, the windsock shows that there is some wind. It is probably my cunning and devious nature but IF i would ever make a mistake like that you bunch of monday morning coaches are not going to find it on youtube...

You've tried this here? http://www.martijnvandam.nl/content/about "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Turning prop? Harness grip! Agreed (I guess everybody does that) You'll be attached to both reserve and main parachute by means of this piece of metal. Once attached, I can release the lowers (that keep you in front of me during free fall) However, I cannot release this connection between you and the parachute until after we have landed. Wherever you are going, I'm going there too! So much for neuro linguistic programming... "Keep your feet on my bum until I hand you the toggles" (i.e. there is no mention of behaviour that should be avoided but rather training of behaviour that should be executed...) 1. You must arch until I give you the toggles. 2. Is the drogue out already? How do I know? Was that a tap on my shoulder? Or just a touch? OMG, this goes fast - I think I'm going to PANIC! Lets try and grab something, anything... "If we end up under a reserve you'll be the last to notice that anyway, so don't worry..." "If you don't do anything I said since your mind melted away fresh out of the door, you will spoil the video, get nauseated and may hurt yourself on landing. Me, I'm planning to save my life once more, whatever YOU decide to do and I wouldn't take anyone up if they can influence the outcome - just count yourself lucky that we share parachutes"

"This is how you are going to steer and land the parachute in case I'm incapacitated. First try and reach for the toggles that are in their keepers way up there on the rear risers. It might be necessary to pull down a riser with both hands and release those toggles one at a time. Once you have released one control toggle please DO carry on with the next one - don't be alarmed that the parachute starts to turn, building up speed while you strugle with the other toggle - this is all perfectly normal..." "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

He may have had no training whatsoever and have figured it out by himself, being a person with a head on his shoulder and in the habit of using it. (AFAK said TI gave the student the toggles, then passed out - but correct me if I'm wrong...) Hey, he may have red 'The Parachute and its Pilot' cover to cover and would have been able to pass a written test with flying colours for all I know - but the question is if a formal classroom training in steering the parachute where just the fundamentals are touched is a viable option. However, everyone I took up so far had toggles in their hands from opening until 20 seconds prior to landing - you are only excused from that when you have passed out or are busy taking pictures And yes, in a briefing I always say "these handles will be put by me in front of your face, they are the only ones you are going to touch during this jump. Steering the parachute is easy, Pull left and it goes left and faster down than it did, pull right (dont forget to stick your left arm back up) and the thing goes right and faster down than it did." Sooner or later however, we are going to end up with a TI that passed out before giving the student the toggles. In all likelihood the backup systems will save the students life then, not formal classroom training in steering parachutes. (Come to think of it, any of you examiners-riding-front ever reached for toggles still in their keepers from a tandem main or reserve, with the lower laterals still tightly attached? Care to share your experiences?) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Doubtful... The outcome of such an event might have nothing to do with the training a person did or did not get, prior to the jump. Although there are many places where person under a 'rudderless' parachute probably would hurt himself during the landing, the bulk of all the possible landing sites (i.e. where the parachute might end up as a result of a random process) are flat and unobstructed. Since parachutes don't have a lot of forward speed it is thoroughly possible that someone with no experience or training at all and no radio-guidance in the process walks away unharmed. Every operation encounters solo students that freeze under canopy and we all have been retrieving 'lost sheep' sometimes more than a mile from the designated landing site, with the half-brakes still in place. Not all of them needed medical care after such a landing. Normally only the students ego is damaged... Furthermore, any TI that has ever landed an unconscious passenger can tell you that a completely relaxed body helps as much in not breaking anything as lifting up your feet @ touchdown does. Should a student find himself with the toggles in his hands and no one there to guide him, it isn't rocket science that the parachutes turns left when you pull left and right when you pull right. Now all one has to do is aim for a large patch of green... What we DO know however is that a relaxed tandem passenger who is confident - if not in their own abilities then certainly in those of their TI - is way more manageable during all the stages of the jump than one who is convinced all sorts of horrible things can happen when the TI becomes unconscious - which apparently happens at this DZ here every other jump, as he is likely to conclude after a 45 minutes steering lecture... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

And that would be pretty much how things would be handled in a non-US legal system. Wouldn't it be helpful for SE and UPT if everybody further down the food chain just signed a waiver stating that they habitually ignored the recommendations for the use of SE and UPT products as they see fit? Just kidding of course, but OTOH with so little influence, even in the USA how the system will be used in the field, head down tandems, wingsuit tandems, photo-geek tandems with the drogue as the drunks lamppost, photo geek tandems with loose laterals to better be able to geek, etc., etc. How is Ted Strong supposed to monitor and counteract all this other than giving recommendations not to do that stupid s**t? So after all, maybe it isn't such an idiotic idea... (I have seen someone here boasting about 140kg students/passengers - that must have been a lightweight TI!) Yet, I can check a passengers harness for proper fit in less than two minutes even if the passenger is on my lap in a cramped C206 and the function of the backstrap does not require rocket science to understand either. Nor why all these free fly hippies nowadays have a bungee between left and right legstrap. In short: one must not drop them, or hire someone who will... "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

When you land with some forward speed or unexpected (rotor) sideway motion, a long-legged passenger or one that is rather low in front of you, can stick his or her foot in the ground before she or he is supposed to even touch the ground. Usually you can save the day by "rolling aside" of them IF you have maximum freedom of movement. Joined at the hips, even with the laterals completely extended, your freedom to "roll aside" is very much restricted and the same move that would save the day during one 'less elegant' landing now can fracture the foot, ankle, knee or hip of the person in front of you. Stuffing them out of the way - not immediately after opening but below the hard deck for a cutaway is my plan of action. Being 100% sure about your main canopy and not letting those hooks tangle with toggles is a prerequisite, of course... Relatives of tandem students that show video-footage of my lack-of-respect-for-the-rules? We'll cross that bridge when we get there. But it helps being Dutch and operating in Holland. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Though the footage was funny as hell IMO, it should be mentioned that in the past a student reaching back (for the control toggles?) actually DID grab and pull the cutaway handle. Both perished, since the laterals had already been disconnected at that point in the jump... For the rest, I agree that it is an unlikely place for the student to grab. But if he does, he most certainly CAN pull it out. (In fact it was a female student in Kapowsin if I remember correctly...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Next: world domination! (If that were dude-like, that is...) "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...

Well, the TI exercises control all throughout the freefall part of the skydive, there doesn't seem to be much wrong with the weather, we don't see any loops cut@2000ft and the passenger lands softly albeit not close to the camera. An overal succes, I would say.

Ask if the toplight is red, and the bottomlight green, or the other way around. Then act accordingly. Color blindness should in no way hamper your attemps to participate. There are solutions! "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words...