Ron

http://florida.skydivespaceland.com/shop/lift-tickets/everglades-boogie-registration/?utm_source=Everglades+Boogie+Invitation&utm_campaign=Everglades+Boogie+promo+12%2F13&utm_medium=email Free Load Organizers Scotty Burns (wingsuit) Tyler Roemer (freefly) Scott Latinis & Michael Wadkins (RW) The Fastest Fun Airplanes in South Florida! Super SkyVan Super Caravan Bell 407 helicopter Thats right a Bell 407.... And more! Live entertainment Saturday night Lots of shenanigans! FREE BEER! (Can you drink $25 worth of free beer in 3 days? I know I can!) Register and buy jumps online to save time at check-in! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

THIS. You will not really learn to spot at a turbine DZ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The guy with 500 in a year has an opportunity to have more basic skills. The guy with 3 years has the opportunity to know more. The difference between the two? In the air, I doubt much. Overall the guy with three years should know more. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That most likely has more to do with your admitted bias than anything else. You asked what do we tell whuffos when the conversation comes up. That answer is that it does not come up in 99% of the cases because it is not relevant to the situation and I see no point in bringing it up. This is the same thing Andy alluded to. If a student asks me why I still jump. I tell them the challenge of trying to perfect something as difficult as skydiving can be. If an experienced jumper asks. I tell them because I like to teach. That I like to see the light in the students eyes and like to see the students sense of pride in accomplishing a task. So depending on who asks, depends on what answer I give. Your query was about whuffos, so I gave you the answer for whuffos... I don't bring it up, so I don't have to answer the question. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You claim, "I fully understand what your saying". Then you know where I am trying to take this conversation. Most times it is more trouble than it is worth to have the skydiving conversation. After you have tried it about a billion times you realize that people will not change their opinion and you quit trying to have the conversation. As Andy pointed out, YOU are in charge if this conversation comes up. Unless you do something to bring it up, it will not come up. At some point most people quit bringing it up because the conversation goes almost on a script. You say "I have a whole lot of medals as well that I don't feel like explaining in great detail" Well after a while you will have a whole bunch of jumps that you don't feel like explaining in great detail. Eventually, you might have no desire to even talk about either your military medals or your skydiving. That is all I am "trying to take this conversation". After a while you might just avoid the topic because you know how it will play out. A great idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Rumor seems to be true: Scott Latinis is scheduled to be the RW organizer - member of Arizona Airspeed champion 16-way and 10 way team and one of the leaders of P3!! Frankly if you want to do some challenging stuff... He is your man. You want to start getting your name known to the P3 big way stuff... He is your man. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then you are not regressing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah yes trolling.... I normally forget people do that here. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That's it right there. If the conversation doesn't happen in the first place, you won't have to explain yourself to people who almost always won't understand anyway. As often as not, you're in control of that. I don't really mind explaining myself. I'm just curious to why other jumpers are excited about the sport. There are a lot of different reasons, none of which are because its cheap If you are like most jumpers... Wanting to talk about it is a phase you will get out of. Most of the people I work with have no idea. Some people know, only because it has come up one way or another (I have a medal from the Army that mentions freefall, I put the commendation in my office cause it is kinda neat). But explaining yourself over and over gets old for most people. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A guy was hitting on a friend of mine at work. We were all sitting in another friends office. He starts taking about how great skydiving is - Out of the blue, there was nothing to prompt this conversation. He starts talking about how it is the best thing ever, other than sex as he looks to my female friend he is hitting on. He just keeps going and going while everyone in the room glances at me waiting for me to either verify or shut him down... I do nothing and just let him talk. Finally the guy who's office we are in nods at me and tells the suitor, "Ron jumps too". He stops mid sentence and there is a flash of "Oh Shit" in his eyes. Then you can physically see him make the choice to continue anyway as he mentally builds his wall of lies. I still say nothing. I just take a sip of my coke and give an affirmative nod. I was trying to give the guy an out, let him save some face.... He didn't take it. Instead he presses on about his experiences and now starts questioning me about my bona fides. "Where do YOU jump?" he asks me. I say WTS (anyone from the area knows that is West Tenn Skydiving). He says he never heard of that place. Starts puffing up a bit like he has the upper ground and asks were it is. I tell him Bolivar, TN. He says that is where HE jumps and he has never seen me there. Now, at this point pretty much everyone in the room but him knows his goose is cooked. Even my whuffo friends knew "WTS" but this guy just keeps trying to survive the lie he started. The guys potential mate pretends to innocently asks me: Ron, how many jumps do you have now? When I answer 600 you can see the blood drain from the guys face as his story starts its nose dive to the ground. I still say nothing, maybe the guy will be smart enough to quit now before his story starts going downhill so fast it starts to shred apart..... Ah, nope. He charges. He looks at me, "Well then why have I not seen you out there?" Finally, I start to engage him. "I spend almost every weekend out there and when the king air is out of town I often go with it. What kind of flying do you do, RW, sit (yes, before it was called FF or Vrw), freestyle, skysurf?" He says, "Well, I am still in the training program". "Oh, that explains a lot then. Who is your instructor?" He replies with a guy who's name I barely know. He was a TANDEM instructor that was kicked off the DZ about a year ago. "Ah that explains it, he has not been at the DZ for a year. I thought he was only a TI? How many jumps do you have?" Silence.... "Just the one, but I am going back". He didn't get laid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have seen it happen quite a bit. In fact, I know quite a few people that basically have boogies at their house. What you would call "Airshows" is just some people having a good time. Yes, there are restrictions. But claiming something that can be done can't be done is not any more correct than claiming something that can't be done can be done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You're not about to make the "not a commercial operation" argument, are you? I believe that's been thoroughly debunked. It is not debunked. As long as the pilot is not being compensated (and the FAA see's flight time as compensation, so he has to 'share the cost'). And as long as the jumpers are not paying anything more than the shared cost.... And it is not a commercial operation.... Then it is perfectly fine for a private pilot to fly a load of jumpers. So if you, me and a few others want to all chip in a few bucks to cover gas and aircraft rental, I am legally allowed to fly you and your buddies. For that matter, if you want to jump my aircraft (that has the STC to fly with the door removed) I can fly you ALL DAY and be perfectly legal. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Which States, in your mind, give out skydiving licenses? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well there you go. I learn something new everyday. So why the hell is that guy offended I didn't know AFF instructor's need medicals? I mean, if even rigger's don't need them, and TI's don't need them, it follows AFFI's don't need them either. I still don't see how me assuming AFFI's don't need medicals is me not knowing my facts? You didn’t offend me, you don’t mean enough to me or my life to offend. I do get my panties in a knot when people run their mouth and have no idea what they are talking about. Sparky you sure did have a strong reaction to my lack of caring who is required to have med certs His strong reaction was to you trying to pass off information that was made up. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"Dying is easy. Comedy is hard" "I'm not an actor, I'm a movie star!" "Ladies are unwell, Stone. Gentlemen vomit." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My plane has the STC for mogas.... My mechanic said that it is not as good for the engine and that the engine needs some lead to lubricate and reduce wear. I have had several other mechanics support that first opinion. Based on the information I was given, I have not tried to use it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why you take the drug does not matter. The drug is the issue in my case. Drug 'A' works great, but it is not on the FAA's list of approved drugs. Brug 'B' is less effective and messes with my stomach but it is approved. The FAA is behind the times on the third class medical. The USPA is behind that. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

By making them rectangular? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0K63RYrlXc "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, I have to jump through a bunch of stupid hoops because I had a kidney stone once and made the mistake to report it. I have mentioned this before, the FAA made me go get a cystoscopy. The FAA doc said it was an un needed procedure, the urologist said it was not needed.... In fact, not one Doctor I have EVER talked to said it was needed. But the FAA demanded it, so I had to go get a camera shoved up something that I normally only pee out of. I had a great doctor that had me on a drug for an illness I have. The results were great and I never had an issue. Of course the FAA does not approve that medication, so now I am on something else that does not do as good of a job and rips up my stomach. You will rarely ever see me drink a beer anymore since it and my new FAA approved medication does not sit well.... Same with spicy food. I'll be honest, I am LESS likely to run to the doctor since I have to report it next year.... I yeah, I have to go every year since I was honest on my exam paperwork. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Part that and part xbraced came into being. The xbraced canopy gives most of the benefits of the air locks and higher overall performance at about the same cost to manufacture. The people who love air locks will debate this all day long, they will make claims that have never been scientifically tested about how much better air locks are in turbulence.MBut again, these have never been scientifically tested. They will instead offer personal stories and claim it as fact. The airlock was a good design. Unfortunately there were original issues with manufacture that never made it a popular product. Other companies never tried to run with it because of Brian's patent.... And why the hell should he not get paid for his property? But if the product was as good as it was claimed, people would have used it. Booth had a patent on 3 rings and people paid to use it. PD had a patent on xbraced and people fought to use it. If air locks were that much of a step up, people would of either paid the patent fee, or worked around it. As for why it never caught on... The market did not see the benefit and other options that gave the same perceived benefit and some other benefits came on the market. Does the airlock have promise? Sure, but talk to Brian about how much better we could make rounds. But just because we can make it better does not mean the market will support the idea. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not required by the FAA for skydiving. Not required by the FAA for commercial ballon operations Not required by the FAA for commercial glider operations Not required by the FAA for commercial LSA instruction. The FAA has established the standards LONG ago. It is only required because the USPA bowed down to the manufacturers. The USPA claim of wanting to keep out those with a DUI is total crap.... Based on the fact they have waived it and if they really wanted to prevent TI' with a DUI, they cold just make that a rule. The class three medical is a joke and a waste of time. Even the FAA admits that for skydiving, balloons, gliders, and LSA. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am reacting to you making blanket statements and acting like they should be law. Nothing more. 1. Lets get one thing clear, at a minimum he starts with a Cat A jump. 2. he / she is required to repeat a Cat A at this point 3. This isn't really debatable I have spent many days on a DZ coaching people for free. I have done AFF for free, I have taken up tandems for free, I have coached teams for free. None of that makes me better than anyone else and has NOTHING to do with your opinions and you treating them as fact. I understood that before I typed it. And it changes nothing about you acting like your opinions are fact. Again I ask: What instructional ratings do you currently hold? What rating have you held? How many instructional jumps or recurrence jumps have you done? Have you been an AFFI in a single JM AFF program? I ask because you are making statements and acting like those statements are FACT, when they are only opinion. It would be nice to know why you think your opinion should be treated as fact. If you are unwilling to answer those simple questions.... I see no point in trying to continue this discussion. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sure, but as we see more and more canopy deaths at big way events I think more pressure will be brought. For example, I do not do bigways anymore. The last I did was in 1996. Why don't I do them? I don't like being in the air with that many people. I get pressured to do these events, get invited on several record attempts.... I am not going to do it. I know way to many people who are/were quite skilled that got hit. Bob Holler, Todd Hawkins.... the list goes on. IF a big way organizer made everyone jump a 1.2 or less canopy AND had a sharp axe for anyone acting stupid under canopy... they MIGHT get me to get involved. But as long as people are jumping 2.0 loaded canopies and hook turning.... You will never see me on a big way. And you can't have 'waivers' for the most skilled... Because everyone things they are the most skilled. And as another thread shows some people think they are better under their spot canopy and would be more dangerous under a bigger canopy. Speaking for me.... Until the organizers make a lowish WL a requirement.... They will never see me at their events. I am fine with that. The size of the group I will jump with is directly related to the skill of the participants and the location. I'll jump a two way with anyone... But if you want me to do a 40 way it better be with some highly skilled people in at an open DZ. And I am not doing 40+ ways anymore. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Of course I get the point..... That is why in my reply to the OP I stated: "If he has a logbook, any AFFI should be able to look at where he is and create a program on the spot to finish his training. Now, I can't speak without seeing his logbook, but I think if he had 13-15 jumps in an STP program I would make him do a coach jump with me that started out as a level 4 (single JM, linked exit, release when earned, with a list of objectives like heading control (~3 seconds), 2 360's, and then maybe a backflip). If he did all of that, or even just showed control and awareness and was decent under canopy, I'd release him for *almost* self supervision: He would have to work with a coach, or do solo's with a gear check by a staff member till he showed competence. " It is about the student. And that students history and his past performance. It is difficult to argue that two are better than one. You could argue the NEED all day. I have never needed a second JM. There are times I was glad one was there, but if I think I NEED two then I should turn in my rating to the nearest S&TA. Which is why I said "I can't speak without seeing his logbook" No, I mentioned several other things and made no mention of "my skill" till after you made definitive comments about him needing to go to double JM Cat 'A' jumps. Eh, I'll survive. My only issue here is you making a few completely false comments: 1. Lets get one thing clear, at a minimum he starts with a Cat A jump. 2. he / she is required to repeat a Cat A at this point 3. This isn't really debatable All three of those comments are incorrect. You may WISH them to be correct, but that does not make it true. Read this again and see how I am not taking into account his logbook information and other factors in his lack of currency... Remember that I am involved with a program that uses single JM AFF. How would this guy be any more dangerous than a guy that has only done tandems? Fact is that if this guy has a logbook with 10 solo's in it then he is much less likely to freak out than the guy that has only done tandems. "If he has a logbook, any AFFI should be able to look at where he is and create a program on the spot to finish his training. Now, I can't speak without seeing his logbook, but I think if he had 13-15 jumps in an STP program I would make him do a coach jump with me that started out as a level 4 (single JM, linked exit, release when earned, with a list of objectives like heading control (~3 seconds), 2 360's, and then maybe a backflip). If he did all of that, or even just showed control and awareness and was decent under canopy, I'd release him for *almost* self supervision: He would have to work with a coach, or do solo's with a gear check by a staff member till he showed competence. " The fact is that the difference between an L4 and a L1 (without counting the other JM) is pretty simple. If the guy is soup on a stick, I never release him or dump him out if it is that bad. So every L4 starts out as an L1 and the EARN the release. Say for example that a guy shows up without a logbook. How do you think I would move forward from there? Say the guy shows up with a logbook and his last jump was an L6 and it was a soup sandwich.... How do you think I would move FWD from there? Lets say the guy shows up and has a logbook and the last jump was supposedly last week at another DZ and he passed and is now on L5, the first no hold exit. How do you think I will move FWD from there? Here are my answers: No logbook = L1 L6 soup = L4 start L5 current from another DZ = First I'd call the DZ. Then I would most likely still start with an L4 start. Like I said my only issue was your making statements of fact that are only opinion. I am not going to debate that one AFFI is better than two because that is just not debatable. I will debate if two are NEEDED and neither of us are the law when it comes to that answer. Someone else asked a question and I did not see you answer. What instructional ratings do you currently hold? How many instructional jumps or recurrence jumps have you done? And I'll add: Have you ever done a single JM AFF program? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well if you come to FL, let me know. As you already know, we have some great caves in N FL. Ginnie, Peacock, Little River....etc. And in S FL we have some great wreck dives. I have not been Cave diving much (dive buddy died in his sleep). And my other buddy has two kids and went back to school. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334