Genie

That comment was directed to the use of WMD, which probably isn't a problem for UK soldiers. True - but if the UK soldiers go in and the war is later determined to be illegal then they are liable for charges for war crimes. There wasnt any WMD in Bosnia/Serbia either but they still prosecuted them for war crimes. Of course, if they win, then no doubt it wont have been an illegal war ! Genie

Why? Well apparently Sadaam said in response to the ultimatum that when you start the war be aware that it will be fought everywhere - paraphrasing there but what he said certainly gave me the impression that he would have no problem retaliating on american soil. And no doubt he has the capabilities...maybe not war but terrorism... and you know, that really will curtail the freedom... Genie

________________________ I respect her right to say those things, but I'd respect her more if she had the guts to say it here in America, not sucking up to the crowd in London. If she really believes that then should not apologize for it, if she doesn't believe it then she should have never said it in the first place. I see what you mean - but they are on a world? European? tour... not in america. At a guess she was probably asked what she thought and said it. And to be honest as well - as i said before what she has said is accurate. Certainly Mr Bush is being perceived as ignoring everyones opinion unless it meshes with his. As for apologising for it - i dont know what motivated that but perhaps she realised that dissing her President as opposed to dissing Mr Bush wasnt something she wanted to do. There was a great quote from Harry Trueman when he was going to a meeting and the other party hadnt landed - he cirled in Air Force 1 for ana hour so he landd last. When asked about it, he said I dont care if he shows disrespect to me, harry truman is nothing speical - but i wont let them show disrespect to the President - and i agree the office has to have respect resgardless of the incumbent. (btw i paraphrased horribly re what he said :) Genie

The bit that sent shivers down my back was the " You will be prosecuted as war criminals, and 'following orders' is not a defense." Bearing in mind that this is being perceived as an illegal war ( after listening to his address i can just imagine the lawsuits afterwards - no it was legal we had 3 resolutions, no it wasn't none of the resolutions said we would go to war ) and IF the UK go in - im not sure but i think the British parliament still has to vote on this depsite all the troops out there - well if the uk go in and the war is determined as illegal every soldier out there could be prosecuted as a war criminal - sorry i mean every UK soldier - the US never signed up the International Criminal Court... and now their ally has just stated 'Following orders isnt a defense' Eek. Whether or not this is right or wrong my heart and prayers go out to every soldier US, Uk and Iraq, and evey family who has someone there. This sucks... people with no choice are going to die.. Genie

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html http://www.observer.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,591439,00.html I know you will not accept this comrad kallend but it's true Bill, without wanting to be smart, if you consider that to be Verifed Evidence i have a bridge i would like to sell you. Ive read all articles as quoted ( and god knows newspaper articles are *always* 100% accurate!) and in none of them did i see " Yes Sadaam funded and trained the Alquaida terrrorist who flew into the Twin Towers" I saw 'apparently' I saw 'no one said they were Alquaida' and i saw Non Iraqi Arabs... To put it in context, thats kinda like the IRA going to Ian Paisley for training... And none of this came out til after the US stated their intention of wanting to go to war with Iraq. to put it in context I dont doubt that he probably is funding 'non iraqi arabs' but you know theres a LOT of arab terrorist groups and a lot of them are active in the middle east, not in America. Im not saying thats ok then by any means... but if you are claiming verified evidence can we do better than supposition from fairly biased sources ? Genie

that was the one i was thinking about too!! hes got another one for WW111 as well doesnt he - all about whos got the bomb? Or is it the "we'll all fry together" one im thinking of ? Genie

Y'know this is kinda like whats happening around the world right now. Everyone has the right to free speech (ok huge generalisaton there deliberately) as long as it agrees with America. When they dont they're pussies, users, cowards etc.. its a pity that the right to free speech doesnt include a right to have people actually listen to what you say and evaluate it in a reasonable fashion. Without being smart here, what she said is actually accurate - it does *seem* that Mr Bush is ignoring world opinion, and american opinion, and it is causing an anti-american feeling. I dont know if he is ignoring the opinion, or whether he is listening to it, and saying "sorrybut we still have to do this, there are things we know that we cant make public and those are the reasons we *have* to do this now... " Someone else said that Mr Putin (Russia) has said that there will be "serious consequences" if the US invades Iraq... werent these the same words used by Mr Bush re Sadaam not disarming? BTW im sitting up to see what Mr Bush has to say at 1am my time and im watching CNN - whats with the Showdown with Sadaam Logo in the back, that looks like a Casino Ad ?? Genie

thank you so much for going to that effort for me Lolie! I really appreciate it :) Genie

i applaud your ability to speak your mind, it takes some backbone. i agree with everything you've said, i hate no one, although i am hated because of my tendency to "call it like i see it" my nationality, my heritage and my skin pigmentation, sad. Im sorry to hear that. Hate is a very strong word and one i try not to use - but i think an awful lot of the worlds problems are caused by people 'hating' when they dont even know what they hate. Islamic fundamentalist 'hate' americans - most of them have never even met an american! it saddens me to see americans falling into this trap so quickly after they suffered from it. Im watching Sky news here and Iraq has rejected the ultimatum. That means they are going to go in really soon now. Whats really scary is that the British soldiers who go in, and fight, could conceivably be tried as war criminals as this war is illegal by the conventions the UK has signed up to. The other REALLY scary thing is that the worl no longer has a moderating body. the United Nations has just been completey discredited as happened to the original League of Nations... wonder what they will call the next one? Or will the US decide that they dont need one anymore because might is right? Genie

Thanks for your info Lolie, just to clarify, im not thinking of going to the perris boogie - i just saw the currency requirement and wondered about it. And you're right - PAI all the way :) Does that currency requirement of 90 days stand all the time? or just for someone at my level? (which is low!) Genie

I know what you are saying - and as a student i made d*mn sure never to go more than 6 weeks without jumping - i do completely agree with you regarding safety is best... But i off student status now - and i would think for my own head that a solo or two would be fine without needing an instructor with me - i dont have that many jumps but i know where all the handles are :) Genie

That would explain it - I have a Parachute Association of Ireland license :) and we do have differing rules - tho we were the first association to start giving out the international certificates - i of course havent bothered to get one yet. I better check the uspa site anyway as it looks likely that it will be the states im jumping in next. thanks for your help! Genie

Hi Guys just looking thru the perris day post and saw the line 'Logbooks will be required to prove currency' or something like that - which inspired my question. When do you stop being current - and what happens? I had the impression that as i am now a licensed skydiver, if i havent jumped for a while, its a good idea to do a solo first but i was never told i would have to get more training or anything.. I havent jumped since September - combination of no time with school, my dz undergoing an atmosphere transplant for the worse, and reserve repack that i didnt get around to because of the first two reasons

Y'know all these posts about boycotting France and Germany - and anyone who doesnt agree with America, i guess, kinda upset me.. People are being blamed and stigmatised because of the actions of their government. This is one of the factors that caused September 11 to happen in the first place. America was The Great Satan because of their actions in the Middle East, and so americans deserved to die. It upsets me to see all these posts saying the French are pussies, Boycott Everything - it seems to me that theres little difference in americans hating an entire nation because of their governments actions and the islamic fundamentalist view of america. Re Wendys Mail - you summed it up perfectly - this kinda of hate being inspired towards a generic group is dangerous and im sorry to hear about the lady in Houston. My parents are recently returned from America and my mom said she was shocked by the vitriol being spewed towards the French. In England a couple fo years ago one of the tabloids decided to 'name and shame' paedophiles - and a mob attacked a pediatric doctor - hey its all the same isnt it? Guys - people out there dont agree with Americas decision to go to war - but the French arent yelling All yanks are killers ... my 0.2c Genie

Tony Blair told the British Cabinet and lost one minister. Robin Cook resigned from the government in protest

I think America is a great country with great people. I have always thought this and my holidays spent jumping there have just confirmed this. But in answer to the "moral stance" of the US govt - I disagree with it. It seems very very clear that the only reason for the US to go to war with Iraq is because of the oil. Fine,. if thats what they want to do, we cant stop them. But please stop trying to pretend thats its for all these high noble reasons - to free the populace... i guess 8 days of saturation bombing will do exactly that - doubt it will hurt Saddam tho. They've invaded neighbouring countries! So has America - lets not be hypocritical here. The reason I am replying to this post particularly is the quote above "our service men and women who r protecting our everyday freedoms". Those freedoms are some of the things i have always admired about the states. I am sad to see you throw them out in order to go to war, and then think thats how you are protecting them. Innocent until proven guilty for example - which crime exactly has sadaam hussein commited against the US ? Or is that freedom only for americans? the Right to due process? - again apparently not - lets see the people in guantanamo (sp?) actually courtmartialled - or returned to their home from where they were taken - no right to liberty for them huh? And if you have crimes, that sadaam committed or caused to be committed - do you have evidence? evidence= "that which can be seen" not just an assertion by your president. In his speech he declared that he has "evidence" that Iraq and Alquaida are linked. Hmm.. If its evidence it will stand by itself - why doesnt he show the rest of thwe world? If its due to fundraising for al quaida then... the american govt for many years facilitated fundraising for irish terrorists - oh no im sorry - they were "freedom fighters" - the fact they fought for freedom by blowing up 12 year olds buying their saturday candy is probably immaterial huh? I think hundreds of thousands of people will die when this goes ahead - but it wont be the people at the back, it will be the 19 years olds - who are fighting to protect their countries values - except their country is throwing those values out. It will be women and children who are trying to feed their famiies, men who are trying to keep their families together. And the only benefit will be the American hegemony - who will have secured their oil supply for years to come - and wont even have to buy it! Kinda like the Remington guy huh? "I liked the oil so much, i took over their country! " It is sad to see this happen. It is scary to see this happen. Where does it stop? What if your Govt decides they would like to control the world supply of diamonds - will they attack South Africa? After all South Africa killed some of their own people by torture! But the US govt isnt attacking North Korea - who have WMD, who are making more WMD and whose own populace are estimated to have dropped by approx 5million in the last 5 years ? no, they dont have oil... Guys, this may have been a little rambling, but im responding to more than one message here. I feel strongly about this - and not because i in anyway think hussein is a nice guy who should be left alone! - but because i hate to see America, the land of the Free and the home of the Brave, acting as the worst sort of schoolyard bully. I will keep american servicemen and women in my prayers when this goes ahead, and pray they come home safely - but i will also be praying for the mothers and fathers of Iraq who have no control over the fact that they are going to be killed. And their children. Genie

Genie

I hate to be the one to inject a note of reality into this - but what exactly would he have done in that situation if he DID have a gun? In the story as written above, would he pull it and aim when getting his insurance papers, or after he has been blinded? I have no doubt that it was terrifying, and if it gave him an interest in shooting great! But exactly what use would a gun have been in the above scenario? And then he went and bought a shotgun! Great! Coz a shotgun would have been really helpful in the above example wouldnt it? His logic sucks! He'd be better off with a taser, he would have been able to use it to stun the guy more easily than hed be able to use a 9 mm and then he could have kicked the crap out of him! I must say i always find America weird in this respect. You cant have a 3% alcoholic beer til you are 21, but you can own something to kill other people at any age! Genie

Ok so it wasnt done directly - i doubt sadaam send a personal cheque to the guys he supported - so its ok to support terrorists financially as long as its not direct?? And they WERE a terrorist group - they were targeting Russia and not America - but they WERE terrorists - or does it only count if they engage in terrorist attacks against *your* country? And may i also point out that NORAID (an american fund raising organisation) ferried hundreds upon thousands of dollars to Ireland to the IRA and are so, partly responsible for the deaths of innocent Irish and English people over the last 40 years? Or does that not count either? That's fine. Get sick as you want. I'm tired of the "blame America first" mentality that you have. You are extremely critical of the government and all of the people that are doing their best to do the right thing. Yet, you are unwilling to give up a high paying job to sacrifice and serve your country and do what you believe is the right thing. That is your decision, but it is extremely hypocritical for you to do nothing but criticize. *** Hey i thought you werent allowed criticise if you didnt Vote, not if you didnt join the military! did you vote Bill? if so you should be allowed to criticise the people who were voted in and who are technically your employees! Isnt that another of Americas great values? Genie

So has the USA! Now im getting Way inflammatory! So did the USA! ok the USA hasnt done this afaik!! taken threatening actions against US and UK aircraft The USA has supported terrorist attacks financially - hey they even trained Osaama! and have broken 16 of 17 UN resolutions (still working on the 17th one) placed on them. Not to mention there are several sources connecting them with the attacks on 9/11. Now we find empty chemical munition rounds that they claim were declared and you say they didn't have to declare. BTW - i dont support iraq. I do believe that the country would be better off without Sadaam - if only so they stop being starved by sanctions. Im not anti-america I think that its a great country - and im sad to see it throw out most of the values that made it great. ie Innocent til proven guilty.. i dont want to see America going to war because they 'want' to, irrespective of any morality, any justification etc - i know you say sources have linked iraq to 9/11 - what sources? wheres the evidence? actually where is the evidence that Al quaida were responsible for 9/11 ? ( no i dont think they are innocent of it, but wheres the proof?) The only evidence for that is in American hands - evidence is a word meaning "that which is seen" - but nothing has been seen up front, warts and all. in the World community, instead theres assurances. If WW3 happens then i would really prefer to see it happen because its a last resort, because generally accepted norms of morality and legality are followed and because it has to happen. Not because George Sr was threatened by Iraq - POTUS is a high risk job. If he couldnt stand the heat, he shouldnt have been there.... Anyway - hope it wasnt too inflammatory, just trying to insert some objectivity Genie

Hmm - from an outside perspective it seems a lot of americans get killed by americans.... and a lot of americans seem to want to kill americans..so... ? I mean what - 70% own guns? and what about 3% own passports??? QED - Americans are mad! Well *thats* a surprise! Genie

Genie

Most skydivers are probably still remembering the effect a load of frivolous and mistargeted law suits had on the Cessna and light aircraft industry in the states - and how it put jump prices up! I think skydivers in general are more anti-frivolous lawsuits than the average american, and i think that is due to this sport and the way it teaches people to take personal responsibility - if i dont pull that handle, thats my fault and mine alone! Genie -a proud and legal gun toting law abiding skydiver

>Personaly, I think he's proven to be very untrustworthy. I sure as >hell don't want his finger on the trigger of any nukes. I don't either, but there are much greater threats (Kim Jong-Il, Musharraf) to world peace - and they _do_ have their fingers on the triggers. So do we. I don't think we'd like it if the UN sent troops in to disarm us, so I don't think we should blow the "disarm dangerous countries!" trumpet too loudly. I must say i'm really glad to see that statement. Im not american or indeed iraqi, so im as objective as any non involved citizen. Heres whats confused me in this entire "lets get Iraq " thing that George has going. Correct me if im wrong on this, but the rationale of the USA seems to be a) We suspect he has WMD's b) we suspect he may use these against us in the future c) Therefore we need to go to war with him now. Lets look at Iraq - they're looking at the US and saying a) we KNOW the US has WMD's b) We KNOW the US wants to go to war with us - they keep telling everyone! c) So by american logic, iraq should attack the States right now. Shouldnt they? Now i dont think they should attack America - nor do i think America should attack Iraq. Perhaps the UN should attack Iraq in the future when its proved they're hiding weapson (as someone said if Tony Blair and George Bush know where these weapons are, would they ever tell the inspection teams) and i certainly believe that members of the UN should support the UN - but i dont think america should go to war with Iraq (theres rumours going around that George wants to attack Iraq coz "they tried to kill my daddy" - not a good enough reason for me for thousands and perhaps millions to die.) What i really dont understand is the hypocrisy of it all. Why is it ok got America to bomb Iraq for the ab&c shown above when its not ok for Iraq to do the same? (personally i dont think either should be bombing either!) Genie

Thanks Michele! I know the sky isnt going anywhere - but i havent jumped since September! And iam definitely suffering from "lack of Altitude" sickness! And with the symptoms reappearing on Wed last, after 2 weeks clear im looking at aother 2 months at least - which may put the kibosh on my planned sprin break to Florida! Hey dont all american college students go to Florida on spring break? Anyway, my doctor has referred me to an ENT - he thinks the vertigo may be triggering migraines for me - oh joy! - so maybe they'll be able to help We can but hope! Genie