Butters 0 #1 May 28, 2009 Wing suits let humans fly free"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #3 May 29, 2009 I still find Yves Rossy and his jet wings closest to the flight we all imagine, coolest flight pioneer I have ever seen so far Wingsuits are just a fun thing, they won't allow us to truely fly anyway... "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #4 May 29, 2009 How many wingsuit flights have you made?But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #5 May 29, 2009 Do I need to do wingsuit jumps to realize that they are not actually flying, but gliding while rapidly losing altitude at the same time?"Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #6 May 29, 2009 Any form of control over your trajectory is technically flying...but there is always someone living his life on the negative end of the spectrumIf it doesnt feel like flying....You're just doing it wrong... JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill_K 0 #7 May 29, 2009 Quote If it doesnt feel like flying....You're just doing it wrong... There are just so many ways to take that... and most of them... ya never mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #8 May 29, 2009 I'll take that as a no. And I will not answer your question either, but will rephrase it so I can: Do I need to do wingsuit jumps to know that it is actually flying? Yes. Run along now. But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #9 May 29, 2009 It's not flying. When you can gain/sustain altitude and change your trajectory at will (like Yves Rossy), then that will be flying. I always thought that flying is when you have absolute freedom to move anywhere you wish in the space, be it up/down, left/right and more..."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #10 May 29, 2009 Hmmmm...you mean the stuff the dictionary lists as powered flight haha.. Why would they ad that term 'powered' if 'flight' by itself didnt aready mean that...hehe...deal with it...even though you may chooe not to accept reality and substitute it with your own... Gliding..heck..even tracking or just moving forward is technically flying. Moving forward with control (some more than others at glideratios as high as 3.0...its flying....poorly maybe to your standards...but as close as many of us (and you if you're lucky;)) will ever get to experience...and its a beautifull thing to do... Ad you lurking and trolling here says you secretly also believe so...JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottygofast 0 #11 May 29, 2009 QuoteDo I need to do wingsuit jumps to realize that they are not actually flying, but gliding while rapidly losing altitude at the same time? Do I need to fly the space shuttle to know that its actually a really big glider upon re-entry? it is un-powered when it returns from orbit, and has a trajectory about the same as most wingsuits... granted they had big ass rockets to get them to altitude, but we have freefall express to get us up, and as a commercial pilot, I can tell you, YES, we are flying. I guess you just need to figure out that its all about perspective. While we fly like birds, you fall like bird poo. :P Have a wonderful day~Z Flock #11; Muff #1909; PFI #15, USPA Lifer Commercial Multi-Inst. Airplane/Rotory www.flyteskool.ws Aerial Photography Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #12 May 29, 2009 Quote and its a beautifull thing to do... Oh I'm not arguing about that, I do believe it's incredibly beautiful thing "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QuietStorm 0 #13 June 2, 2009 I'm in with Kung Fu Panda on this one! I like his example on the Space Shuttle. Questions: Ever been up in an aerobatic glider and personally experienced what it can do and the level of prowess on the controls it takes? Does the pilot "fly" or "fall"? Have you ever been around glider pilots who find the thermals and go high enough to put on the oxygen? Do you know the sixth "sense" it takes to "fly" a glider well in the upper atmosphere? They are not falling. How could a winguit be any different in the sense of being able to fly or not? You are basically adjusting the controls by using your body itself as the fuselodge and wings to cover distance over ground. Fly?.....or...Fall? In a glider the inputs to the flight control surfaces controls are similar to that of a powered airplane. If your Cessna 182 completely drops power and you have to make a hasty emergency landing...say onto a road ( it has happened ) Fly?.....or....Fall? Uhhh....ever see what happens when a helicopter drops power completely. It does not fly.....it definately falls. My brother is an Air Force Academy graduate, holds a Masters degree in Aeronautical Engineering, flew and F-16 for 20 years, and is a Southwest Plane Captain. So I asked my super cocky jet jock big brother if I was really "flying" in a wingsuit. His answer - "yes"; citing that only by adding thrust (power ) I could extend my flight time. Which led to more beer and theoretical discussions about weight of my fuel on board, drag, lift, etc. Discusssions about Newtonian physics and the potential energy of objects at height made possible by an "engine" called gravity. This then lead onto straight shots of Tequila. I'm very curious and sincerely interested in your reasoning, logic, and how you have come to your conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pms07 3 #14 June 2, 2009 QuoteIt's not flying. When you can gain/sustain altitude and change your trajectory at will (like Yves Rossy), then that will be flying. I always thought that flying is when you have absolute freedom to move anywhere you wish in the space, be it up/down, left/right and more... Dude, you need a new dictionary... Maybe get back to me once you've actually flown a wingsuit, then maybe we can discuss your flight and whether you flew well. Meanwhile, I see lots of people flying wingsuits, first flight courses on wingsuits being taught at many DZs, and some incredible flying being done at various wingsuit events. I'm done here... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yeyo 1 #15 June 2, 2009 Im getting close to 200 wingsuit falls ! No, doesnt sounds right.HISPA #93 DS #419.5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matto765 0 #16 June 2, 2009 QuoteIt's not flying. When you can gain/sustain altitude and change your trajectory at will (like Yves Rossy), then that will be flying. I always thought that flying is when you have absolute freedom to move anywhere you wish in the space, be it up/down, left/right and more... You lose all credibility when you speak due to the fact that you still use a protec helmet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #17 June 3, 2009 Quote I'm very curious and sincerely interested in your reasoning, logic, and how you have come to your conclusions. Guess it's down to personal definition. It's just how I imagine flying. Not when you're limited to a small amount of time and can't gain any altitude. Flying (for me) will always be about complete freedom in the space, complete freedom of moving anywhere you wish and doing it for very long periods of time... You know those flying dreams you have? Basically superman type of flying, that's how I imagine it. I mean, in time, maybe people will develop some antigravitational technology which will enable us to do so..."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccordia 73 #18 June 3, 2009 Quote It's just how I imagine flying. Not when you're limited to a small amount of time and can't gain any altitude. Very few planes can gain altitude of you take away the engines. Where we have a glide ratio of around 3:1 when flown to the max, airplanes have a glide of about 15:1 (747). Quote Flying (for me) will always be about complete freedom in the space, complete freedom of moving anywhere you wish and doing it for very long periods of time... What you are describing here is 100% what wingsuit flying is, and what you just havent experienced yet.. Quote You know those flying dreams you have? Yea...only I call em flashbacks, and I usually have video to watch when Im awake if I want to experience it again...You have nooo idea...jump, jump (fall! fall!) and soon you'll be able to give real flight a try...you'll re-read your words here at the point, and think..'man....if I only Id known...'JC FlyLikeBrick I'm an Athlete? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #19 June 3, 2009 Sangi at first I thought you were just trolling. I've read your comments on here and other forums and it seemed you were just being a negative asshole so you could get a response. I will assume that I was wrong and give you a real answer to this. I remember some flying dreams that started by me just lifting off like a helium balloon. Wingsuit flying is nothing like that. The ones where I was really flying though, I have to say were really a pale comparison to the real thing, and I assure you that this is the real thing. I hardly notice that I'm losing altitude because the sensation is so much forward rather than down. Compared to the old Superman show, this is so free and agile! It's better than I imagined. Watching the ground passing by under you as you travel for miles is just amazing! You zoom where you want and go like the wind. Believe me, when you get to flying it will be better than you can imagine. Yep, it's flying. You'll see. One more thought I had about this is how would you react to someone saying to you, "I've never had sex but It's sure not all it's cracked up to be." Uh Huh. I hope you stick with it and get to see what I mean. After that please let me know what you think. And don't forget to SMILE! But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #20 June 3, 2009 Oh I'm not arguing about the sensation of wingsuiting, I believe it's incredible, specially in BASE where you really get to see how and where you're going... But what I'm saying, it doesn't matter how hard we imagine ourselves flying, we will never be real birds... This is how I always imagined and will always imagine flying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAuP4GbEFr8 Going wherever you wish, low, high, left, right, ANYWHERE and indefinitely. Hopefully one day some kind of technology will enable us to do so..."Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #21 June 3, 2009 QuoteThis is how I always imagined and will always imagine flying http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAuP4GbEFr8 Going wherever you wish, low, high, left, right, ANYWHERE and indefinitely. By that impossible yardstick no man, beast or machine that's ever existed is capable of flight. You can insist on the word 'flight' being restricted to describing what can happen in the physics-less world of comic books and fairy stories as much as you want, but it's not going to stop a single one of us from using the word according to its actual real meaning.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #22 June 3, 2009 You can call it silly, but that's my image of flight, it is how it is. Yeah off course, planes and birds fly as well, but not as good as superman "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #23 June 4, 2009 Sangi. I read this book once where this guy was writing about truth. People get all wrapped up in the search for it, then it shows up and says "Hi, I'm the truth" and the people searching say "Go away, I'm looking for the truth" and so it goes away. Theres a reason we call wingsuits "nylon crack." There is a particular feeling of flight you are looking for. Sometime as soon as youve flown wingsuits enough to be able to surf any cloud in range at will, something like this'll happen to you. Jump story: We had, what, a 4-way I think. 5. Me, Joner, Skwrl and Ron, plus Rick on camera if I remember right. Joner and I and probably Skwrl had our cameras as well just for the hell of it. The surf was looking good so we had something of a dual dive plan. Rons new and just wanted to work on getting to and staying with the group. Joner wanted to try a bit of backflying in the first half. Skwrl didn't seem to want to do anything in particular except surf whatever cloud we could bag. Being senior bird on this flight navigation and getting us to a good surfable puffy if any were in range was my job. Pick us a good puffy, they said. Joner told me if I buzz his field of view during the cloud surf he'll try to get a good shot of me surfing it. You never know what the sight pictures gonna read like until you actually get to the door. And although the wingsuit will let you fly a straight line shot several miles back to the DZ if you wait too long in the door, you don't have all day to pick your surf. You have to step to the door, eyeball the important cubic miles of space you know you can reach, visualize what flight path will get you to a ramp shaped cloud surface, and how to get there. You got to try to be considerate of the other birds and pick one you know is in range for everybody, if they don't all fly megasuits they might not be able to get there. Its bad form to pick a cloud you know you can reach and ditch the other birds to go get it. Unless you're near breakoff in which case anything goes. Sometimes me and my hardcore surfing brothers do it anyway. Cause sometimes, that cloud is just way too tempting. There are often these incredible surfable valleys, canyons and caves, holes and ragged paths, inside of clouds that you can't see until you turn a corner and actually fly right up to it. Regular skydivers fall right past it. With a wingsuit, you can duck inside and go adventuring. This time, I got to the door and got a pretty good sight picture. We were already about a mile or so upwind. Sparse cloud deck at about 4, going up as high as maybe 5.5 to 6. The biggest cloud within reach was also the perfect distance upwind and dead center on the wind line. It had a perfectly ramp-shaped surface pointing straight back to the DZ. We could surf it, come off the bottom at 4 and almost any altitude any of these guys pull at will be an easy shot home. Bottom of the ramp was maybe 2 miles upwind and by the time we reach it, it'll be more like a mile and a half. It'll look like we're a bit far out at low altitude when we get there, but we'll cover the distance in seconds and it'll put the newer birds exactly where I want em in the sky at the end of the flight with almost zero risk of landing out. I hate leading a flight to a marginal spot. I feel like such a dink. Got to the door, looked at the picture, got the birds' attention, pointed at the cloud, made a sweeping circle gesture leading from our exit to the top center of the chosen puffy to indicate the flight path I had in mind, and exited. One of the better flights of the season. If the exact details matter, I recall Joner backflying under in a couple of rolls, I think I flew over to Skwrl for a bit just to say hi and see how he was doin', do a dock or two while I was at it. Made first turn and split my attention between Skwrl on my right and Ron below and back a ways. Noticed we'd burned off a little over half the descent necessary to reach our puffy and that we were gonna have to make our next turn soon if we were gonna hit it. I can't remember if I docked on Skwrl and turned him 90 to point us at the cloud or if that was another flight, or just turned and went for it or what. Coming up on the surface I remembered Joner wanted to get a surf shot so I looked at where he was and it all lined up... if I was gonna hit the surf just right I was going to have to sacrifice altitude anyway, and I LOVE a good steep plummet-dive. Flying down the ramp of that cloud was about as glorious an experience as anyone with a love of flying would expect. The airport dead ahead but a long way out, a distance we'll cover in seconds. A big, wide open rampy flight surface just below us, leading right to it. I threw my wings back and dived for it. Reached the surface of it, popped the wings to max and turned all the speed I'd picked up in the dive into lift and forward speed. Totally ruined the shot, so much for looking cool on camera. Ask me if I give a damn. Combined with every low fallrate ninja trick I know done all at once, the carving dive turned into a planeout that delivered the brief vertigo-stomach feeling you get that makes you think your fallrate mighta hit zero for a second or two, there. It made me disappear up and out of the video. Oh well. I was too busy flying to care. Came off the bottom of the cloud doing 100+ forward and just kept going. Looking around I was aware of the other birds deploying behind me but focused mainly on trying to fly as perfectly as I could to go as far as possible and get every bit of speed and time out of it as I can. Theres a "fast" sweet spot in flying where you're going as fast as you can with as much wing area out as you can. Any more and it'll slow you down, costing you lift and time, any less and you'll sacrifice needless fallrate and not get any speed out of it in exchange, and you're wasting it. I can't really tell you how to do it, but I can tell you that you have to point your toes really hard back, make yourself long and skinny and stick your neck as far forward as you can to find it. Anyway I sure found it on that jump, covered the remaining distance back to the DZ in less time than it takes to tell it, pulled at about 2, couple quick spirals and landed. Sure felt like flying to me. You gonna tell me it wasn't? Accept the fact that you can't go up, then enjoy the flight. There are limits on how far you can fly. And its a pain in the ass having to borrow someone else's plane every time you wanna be up there. Deal with it. If you could fly like superman anytime at will, what are you gonna do, fly to Albuquerque? With what luggage? If you could do it all the time as casual as walking, it'd take all the magic and joy out of it. Trust me on this. My dropzone is actually within flying distance to the factory at which I work, barely, if I asked for a really long spot in a weird direction. I could fly to work if I really wanted to. If the wind direction was right. Somehow, if I ever did it, I'm pretty sure it'd feel fairly ordinary except for being embarassed at having arrived in such a needlessly flashy fashion that I'm going to have to explain somehow to my employers, and without my toolbag. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasted3 0 #24 June 4, 2009 Nice one Lurch. You got a way with words man. If he says it's not flying I'm gonna puke. Hope to fly with you again soon amigo.But what do I know? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sangi 0 #25 June 4, 2009 Nice one Lurch, specially loved the last paragraph, when you think of it, it's true "Dream as you'll live forever, live as you'll die today." James Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
