TomAiello 25
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TomAiello 25
Avery, consider yourself warned. Please desist with the personal attacks, or I will ban you from this forum.
Thanks.
Thanks.
OmarPR 0
This is mostly directed to Laura and Oren:
Guys, I didn't take your or anyones comments as personal attacks. But I did expect that after giving my satement on my last post, people would directly attack me, which to my relief did not happen. I did get offended though, when alot of people somewhat attacked "the unknown buzzer" without any facts. It also bothered me that I had to take the time to explain myself on a discussion so negative. I only like to post here for entertainment (i.e. posting my videos), education (i.e. my wingsuit review & aerobatics), or information (i.e. on events such as Flock n' Dock and PR FreeFall Fest). If you notice I have more jumps than posts. That should tell you something.
I wish I had the time to post my 'side of the story' sooner, and maybe this thread wouldn't have gone so out of hand. I think everyone that knows me at the DZ know that I don't have a bad attitude. I am not arrogant and I consider myself to be laid back and humble. Like I said before I know my limitations. And I am always willing to learn from my own experiences and others'. I am not a skygod or a wingsuit god. I have made some mistakes, and even gotten hurt, and I took them as learning experiences. And as a result that has made me a safer skydiver and wingsuit pilot. I have even refused to get involved in some "new experimental" wingsuits fligths with my buddies because I have consired myself "not ready for that yet". It's like someone here said before, I will have to prove myself (as a safe skydiver). You guys are more than welcome to approach me and talk to me or any wingsuit pilot at the DZ with any concerns or questions that you may have. I promise I won't give you any attitude. I can't. I don't have any.
As for every one here, I just want to make something clear:
My situation happened a while ago. We were, in my opinion, at the wrong place at the wrong time. Things have changed since then. And I have NEVER approved or will ever approve of unplanned INTENTIONAL buzz jobs.
Peace.
WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds
Guys, I didn't take your or anyones comments as personal attacks. But I did expect that after giving my satement on my last post, people would directly attack me, which to my relief did not happen. I did get offended though, when alot of people somewhat attacked "the unknown buzzer" without any facts. It also bothered me that I had to take the time to explain myself on a discussion so negative. I only like to post here for entertainment (i.e. posting my videos), education (i.e. my wingsuit review & aerobatics), or information (i.e. on events such as Flock n' Dock and PR FreeFall Fest). If you notice I have more jumps than posts. That should tell you something.
I wish I had the time to post my 'side of the story' sooner, and maybe this thread wouldn't have gone so out of hand. I think everyone that knows me at the DZ know that I don't have a bad attitude. I am not arrogant and I consider myself to be laid back and humble. Like I said before I know my limitations. And I am always willing to learn from my own experiences and others'. I am not a skygod or a wingsuit god. I have made some mistakes, and even gotten hurt, and I took them as learning experiences. And as a result that has made me a safer skydiver and wingsuit pilot. I have even refused to get involved in some "new experimental" wingsuits fligths with my buddies because I have consired myself "not ready for that yet". It's like someone here said before, I will have to prove myself (as a safe skydiver). You guys are more than welcome to approach me and talk to me or any wingsuit pilot at the DZ with any concerns or questions that you may have. I promise I won't give you any attitude. I can't. I don't have any.
As for every one here, I just want to make something clear:
My situation happened a while ago. We were, in my opinion, at the wrong place at the wrong time. Things have changed since then. And I have NEVER approved or will ever approve of unplanned INTENTIONAL buzz jobs.
Peace.
WINGSUIT ACROBATICS team O zone
ZF#5 , HISPA#70
Blue Skies...
...Big Fat Clouds
980 0
QuoteYou need to get a clue that there are a lot fewer wing suit flyers than everyone else and if people start to perceive a problem, it is you that is going to suffer.
no perceived problem at my home dz, because there is no problem
Quote
At my DZ if you want to swoop the pond, you have the choice of getting out low or getting out last and opening high.
I never mentioned swooping any pond.
Quote
You do this at what YOU consider is a safe distance and in what YOU consider a safe and controlled manner. I don't know you and I don't want you deciding for me what is safe and what is controlled.
holy crap guy, I hope you have that same shitty I-know-what's-safe-and-obviously-you-don't-so-just-do-as-I-say attitude towards every other jumper on your load and the pilots too.
these are all people who have to make decisions on what is safe and what is controlled on every plane ride and skydive and on any given load any other person on that plane can kill YOU by acting in an unsafe and/or uncontrolled manner
better accept the fact that you can't be there 100% of the time to tell ALL the other people on the DZ how to keep YOU safe (although I can tell this is your number one fantasy...)
at some point you have to trust that their training and judgement is good enough
Why not extend that same trust to experienced wingsuit pilots in this matter?
Quote
Because sometimes you have to give up something to get something
luckily getting out of the otter last at my home dz does not mean I have to give up landing in the gap between experienced jumpers and slow canopies, it also doesn't mean I have to give up 3000 - 4000ft of flying time (that would be more than 60 seconds to me).
this is because the people who DO know me (not you) are satisfied that I am acting in a safe and controlled manner
Quotemake sense?
QuoteNo
that's because you are blinded by being so reactionary about this
take a few days off from posting to this thread and read it again a week from now and see if you're still just as pissed...
dploi 0
I can't add to this, I can only second it. But what do I know, I've only flown in close proximity to canopies about 600 times.QuoteA properly executed buzz accounts for any unexpected canopy maneuver. This is what makes it absolutely safe.
An issue of politeness and fear has been covered already. It has nothing to do with safety.
To F111: yes, proximity is important. A bulletproof distance is such where any canopy maneuver will not put it in WS path. For a tandem, this distance is quite small. An actual safe distance is even shorter: since a wingsuit can outfly any canopy, it is only determined by a pilot's reaction time.
bsbd!
Yuri.
I'm so glad that I've met most of you on the wingsuit forum in person and trust your knowledge and skills with wingsuit flying vs just some random stranger online
My Prodigy is "Coming Soon"
Z-Flockers
_________________________________________
My Prodigy is "Coming Soon"
Z-Flockers_________________________________________
dploi 0
If anyone has issues with you, the experienced wingsuit pilot, buzzing them without warning, then I recommend approaching and leaving from behind, so that they won't see you. Fly right over their canopy spanwise, but don't let your shadow show through or they might look for you.
Problem solved.
Problem solved.
Calvin19 0
yeah, and fly clean, wingsuits are pretty loud, and if their canopy is not that fast, they will hear you...
dploi 0
Good call.Quoteyeah, and fly clean, wingsuits are pretty loud, and if their canopy is not that fast, they will hear you...
MarkM 0
QuoteI just don't understand why you need to fly a pattern that is going to put you anywhere near open canopies while you are still in freefall. If you guys have as much control and awareness as you all seem to say you have, then stay the hell away and there is no potential for a problem (perceived or otherwise).
You have a 2.0 loaded canopy. If you get out last and deploy at 6k, you're going to be flying past some other people's canopies when you head home. There's nothing unsafe about it and as long as you're not swooping the tandems at 3k no one is going to think twice about you sinking down past them in a spin a hundred yards away.
Wingsuits also have to turn in and fly home at some point if they're going to land at the DZ, just like you would under a canopy. Flying home like that can present to you some traffic, canopies that have been in the sky for about a minute before you get near them. These canopies are obvious to see and easy to avoid, just like they are to you when you're under your pocket rocket.
Every skydiver uses a canopy. So when they see a canopy pass them while they're under canopy or have one swoop them while they're on the ground, they understand the context of it.
The problem wingsuiters have is that people don't understand them. So you can easily freak people out who think that being in a wingsuit = freefall.
Ron 7
QuoteEvery skydiver uses a canopy. So when they see a canopy pass them while they're under canopy or have one swoop them while they're on the ground, they understand the context of it.
I still don't like people to fly right next to me in formation unless I know them and trust them. Why sould I be OK with some guy I don't know flying a WS near me if I don't like some guy under canopy near me.
The big difference is that under canopy I can get away....The WS buzz takes one second and I have no options.
QuoteThe problem wingsuiters have is that people don't understand them. So you can easily freak people out who think that being in a wingsuit = freefall.
My big problem is people who think its OK to do no matter how I feel about it.
Like I said if I don't want someone I don't know flying a canopy 50 feet from me at close to the same speed...Why would I be OK with some guy I don't know buzzing me at a 60-100 MPH difference?
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334
outrager 6
Ron,
It is perfectly ok for you to be scared. Everybody agrees that is a good enough reason not to buzz you or anybody else unexpectedly.
As far as actual risks go, you are not qualified to assess them, and not required to. You don't want to be buzzed, so you don't get buzzed. The rest is a technical discussion for wingsuit pilots.
You also need to work on your conflict resolution model. As it stands, trying to break somebody's nose will get you hurt and arrested. Not a good outcome.
It's just too easy to push your buttons. It has already developed into dz.com game, with off-line betting etc
bsbd!
Yuri.
It is perfectly ok for you to be scared. Everybody agrees that is a good enough reason not to buzz you or anybody else unexpectedly.
As far as actual risks go, you are not qualified to assess them, and not required to. You don't want to be buzzed, so you don't get buzzed. The rest is a technical discussion for wingsuit pilots.
You also need to work on your conflict resolution model. As it stands, trying to break somebody's nose will get you hurt and arrested. Not a good outcome.
It's just too easy to push your buttons. It has already developed into dz.com game, with off-line betting etc
bsbd!
Yuri.
There are some good points and valuable discussion here. Let's not lose track of that. I'd rather not have to remove the thread because folks can't separate the discussion from their personalities. If this spirals downward again, I'll likely lock it and leave it in the forum.
People, you need to figure out when to make your points and leave it at that. Making personal attacks in conjunction with good input just detracts from your ability to convey real information and opinions.
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SnakeRiverBASE.com
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