lot's of used W/S to choose from

[basebasebase01 0]

Its been a while since I seen so many W/S for sale I Wonder why?


Maybe people are sucking the bank account dry to buy "THE SUIT" V1


Or maybe people are just broke like me

[bodypilot1 0]

Yep, probably broke like you.

Though I don't see any great amount more then normal.

Most that are being sold only have from 10 jumps to 75, and probably have no business going to the V1.
Too often we see a "vanity" purchase....



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[Jib 0]

It's also Xmas (need cash to buy GI Joe with the kung foo grip) and off season many places too.

--------------------------------------------------
the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[TomAiello 25]

Quote

Most that are being sold only have from 10 jumps to 75, and probably have no business going to the V1.
Too often we see a "vanity" purchase....

Amen. I know a dozen people looking to buy V1's who can't yet get maximum performance from their GTi's or Classic's.

No matter how good the suit is, it's not going to make me into Yuri.

-- Tom Aiello

[email protected]
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Yep, probably broke like you.

Though I don't see any great amount more then normal.

Most that are being sold only have from 10 jumps to 75, and probably have no business going to the V1.
Too often we see a "vanity" purchase....



Be safe
Ed

Who does have business going to a V1?

Unless it's dangerous (which it may be for a newbie) I see no reason that anyone should refrain from buying one if they want one.

Should I demonstrate that I can drive my Ford Taurus to the limit before it's considered appropriate that I buy a Porsche? If that were the case, Porsche wouldn't sell many cars.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[verticalflyer 11]

Yeah thats a great attitude, just because you can buy does not mean you should, its for this very reason that within the canopy market people have bought beyond there piloting abilities with the 75% of fatalities now attributed to death under fully functioning canopies.

If people are seling wingsuits with 10-75 wingsuit jumps on there suits then yes I would think they are newbies and yes whilst some might be able to fly a V1 others maybe biting off more than they can chew, thats not elitism its seeing people flying suits they are not ready for and missing the sheer joy of flight because they are not ready for the suit they have.

As for your car analogy, do you drive your car to max, foot to the floor, all of the time irresepective of brand, I doubt it. What is the point of buying a V1 if you dont have the skills to fly it to its limit, and if you get in trouble with a big wing and cant handle it these things dont come with airbags and a little voice to remind you to buckle up, other than to say oh yeah I have got the V1 its got this that and the other aerodynamics arent I cool.

Far better one learns to fly the earlier models before stepping up to the most advanced wing of the day. Everyone seems in such a rush these days to move on we are fortunate enough that there is the talent and creative vision out there to create these wings but it does not mean they are for everyone.

Cheers

Fraser

Dont just talk about it, Do it!

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

Who does have business going to a V1?

Unless it's dangerous (which it may be for a newbie) I see no reason that anyone should refrain from buying one if they want one.

Should I demonstrate that I can drive my Ford Taurus to the limit before it's considered appropriate that I buy a Porsche? If that were the case, Porsche wouldn't sell many cars.

Hi John

Anyone can buy one if they wish to John.

But as Tom stated, "I know a dozen people looking to buy V1's who can't yet get maximum performance from their GTi's or Classic's." And "No matter how good the suit is, it's not going to make me into Yuri."
His view is mostly for the BASE side of wingsuits I'm sure of.

Mine is mostly from a airplane, and I see almost the same, except "Flocking" or flying safely relative to another jumper , comes into effect.

The jumper that wishes to do solo wingsuit jumps does it mostly for "performance" or gathering "performance data", and as stated, "they will not become a better flyer because of the suit".

And most that do this "performance data" gathering, get tired of doing solo's, and attempt to flock with others, only leading to the "suit flying them" and possibly leading to a VERY dangerous situation.

I have seen it, and have been on the recieving end of it also.

Not to sound brash, but possibly your lack of "flocking" with multiple wingsuits and seeing the "out of control" wingsuit pilot has lead you to this question.

Surely this is not a beginner suit, and you would even step in and stop someone when seeing that they are not ready for a suit with this much wing.

But would you like to be in the air "flocking" with someone that has 50 or so jumps on it, and is still lacking the control to flock with you safely?
I'd say no?

People sometimes buy whats the newest and coolest thing coming out, to look cool on the DZ, but it's not always the best choice.

Maximuzing your skills in a lower perofrmance style suit, before entering into a high performance suit, is ALWAYS what you will hear from an experienced wingsuit pilot.

Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[VectorBoy 0]

I'm glad there are more options in the wingsuit market. And the only way that these guys will stay in business is if people buy their suits. I had no intention of buying an S-3 but fell in love with it after trying it and decided I wasn't giving it back.

I know exactly what you are talking about and you are right. But people that need more skill development probably need it no matter what suit they fly. And I agree with Ed get to the flocks, your flying will improve. As not everybody is where the flocking is going on the suits will have to go to them. More used suits on the market will mean that there will be a greater chance that some flyers won't be stuck flying alone forever. I've never met a wingsuit I didn't like. If a jumper is dangerous we can work on that if they are willing to flock and improve.

The downside is less resale value for your used suit.

[kallend 1,623]

Quote

Quote

Who does have business going to a V1?

Unless it's dangerous (which it may be for a newbie) I see no reason that anyone should refrain from buying one if they want one.

Should I demonstrate that I can drive my Ford Taurus to the limit before it's considered appropriate that I buy a Porsche? If that were the case, Porsche wouldn't sell many cars.

Hi John

Anyone can buy one if they wish to John.

But as Tom stated, "I know a dozen people looking to buy V1's who can't yet get maximum performance from their GTi's or Classic's." And "No matter how good the suit is, it's not going to make me into Yuri."
His view is mostly for the BASE side of wingsuits I'm sure of.

Mine is mostly from a airplane, and I see almost the same, except "Flocking" or flying safely relative to another jumper , comes into effect.

The jumper that wishes to do solo wingsuit jumps does it mostly for "performance" or gathering "performance data", and as stated, "they will not become a better flyer because of the suit".

And most that do this "performance data" gathering, get tired of doing solo's, and attempt to flock with others, only leading to the "suit flying them" and possibly leading to a VERY dangerous situation.

I have seen it, and have been on the recieving end of it also.

Not to sound brash, but possibly your lack of "flocking" with multiple wingsuits and seeing the "out of control" wingsuit pilot has lead you to this question.

Surely this is not a beginner suit, and you would even step in and stop someone when seeing that they are not ready for a suit with this much wing.

But would you like to be in the air "flocking" with someone that has 50 or so jumps on it, and is still lacking the control to flock with you safely?
I'd say no?

People sometimes buy whats the newest and coolest thing coming out, to look cool on the DZ, but it's not always the best choice.

Maximuzing your skills in a lower perofrmance style suit, before entering into a high performance suit, is ALWAYS what you will hear from an experienced wingsuit pilot.

Be safe
Ed

Ed,

I see two issues here.

One is: is this individual safe, or a hazard to himself and others. Assuming the answer is that the person is safe, then I see no reason this person shouldn't buy one.

The other issue is: can this person fly their existing suit to the max. I don't really see this as relevant, any more than it's relevant if I buy a Porsche before I have maxed out my Ford Taurus.

The US economy relies on vanity. What % of SUV owners need a SUV? What % of 'Vette owners need a 'Vette? What % of joggers need top of the line running shoes?

I don't have a problem with that. (I hope to pick up a cheap used GTi or S3 out of this trend

PS my car is really a Mercury Sable Wagon - very much a vanity car!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[voodew1 0]

Well here it goes most BMIs and BMCIs don't like me for my views but most other wingsuit fliers do considering my pms which they are not willing to post out loud.

Now that you are a BMCI you think that Birdman INC should run the show, not true if another company out does Birdman Inc - sorry. Maybe if Birdman would try to move forward in promting there product you would have a leg to stand on but until that happens I think the V-1 is hands down the better purchase than the S3 (this is an assumption due to no average jumper testing the suit only the hype behind it)

I hope that Robert has some plans for promting to the skydiving community not just the BASE jumpers.
I will be ordering my V-1 along with 2 others at my small cessna DZ in the early spring due to the lack of response by Birdman Inc and its instructors. Don't take this wrong, I don't know you and hope you are all for furthing wingsuit flight and due to your business I think you are.
As for the suit flying the pilot with even half assed training this can be overcome - been there done that.

Don't look down on the competition as it will only make us stronger as a group! Birdman Inc needs to step up to the plate now and put its people and their holyer than though attitudes in check - we as wingsuit pilots want more out of our suits and more new flyers in them - don't be the one to try and stop the movement forward.

Ed I once again don't know you but think that you have the best of intensions - don't buy into the I am the greatest attitude due to a "C" in your "manufactures rating" take what you have and make the company you represent better - don't try to put the competition down - if it weren't for competition we would have anything other than a model T Ford

This is not meant to piss anyone or any company off - just to raise awareness to imperfections in established companies and maybe newer companies will try to over come these.

Voodew

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[bodypilot1 0]

Jason

I think you have misunderstood what I meant when I stated "probably have no business going to the V1."

This statement was NOT because it was another manufacturer other than BirdMan, and PLEASE DO NOT PUT WORKS IN MY MOUTH.

If you would have read the other things I wrote, you'd have read into exactly what Tom and I said, about the wingsuit DOES NOT make you better if your NOT a very proficient flyer in one of the lower end suits.

I have flown just about every sytle wingsuit there is, and I have chosen the one that fits my liking the best, have become very proficient at it, and will seek to advance in a higher performance suit should I ever get a chance to jump one.

From what I have seen of your posts in the past Jason, you have developed some kind of hard on for the BirdMan Instructors or Chief Instructors, but please do not include me in on your path of judgement.

As I have stated long ago on this forum, "fly wht ever it is you like to fly, just fly it safely".

Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[kallend 1,623]

Great.

I hope to pick up a cheap used GTi, S-Fly or S3 out of this trend towards the V1. I'm 5'11" and 155 pounds, suit color not an issue. (That is a hint to anyone selling).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[VectorBoy 0]

Have you seen the classified section John? There are more listed than I have seen in a while. The BM website has a few used on consignment it looks like. Matter is selling their last years Demo fleet of twos.

For a lot of jumpers a wingsuit just isn't a priority purchase. They want second rigs or multiple canopys, a camera and helmet first. Spare suits have played a large role in the kind of flocking we do with people that can't or won't commit to their own suit purchase. Right now as in the past wingsuits have held their resale value very well. In fact almost too well for some of these hold outs.

[bodypilot1 0]

Quote

Great.

I hope to pick up a cheap used GTi, S-Fly or S3 out of this trend towards the V1. I'm 5'11" and 155 pounds, suit color not an issue. (That is a hint to anyone selling).

PM sent

Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[badenhop 0]

I read performance issue, not manufacturer issue.
basebasebase01 wrote V1, Ed just went with it.
He could have just as well wrote S3.
It's the same with canopies, see verticalflyer's post.
It's not a "make" of canopy that's killing them, it's the "type".
I like my GTi's, and BirdMan generally, so I ordered an S3.
I am also going on a BASE adventure in a couple months,
Robert is manifested on the load, so I ordered a V1 as well.
(No, my GTi's are not for sale).
I flew the suit Chuck at Da Kine Rags made a couple years ago, it was ok.
I've also flown the Crossbow, which was IMHO not very user friendly.
I'd like to try the Matter, if I like it, I'll buy it.
I'd like to try the Sugarflyer too, if I like it, I'll buy it.
(Gear fetish).

==================================

I've got all I need, Jesus and gravity. Dolly Parton

http://www.AveryBadenhop.com

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Jason, I don't see anywhere in Ed's post where he posts bias towards any one manufacturer's suit. Lose the attitude and you will go much farther in the community.

For everyone elses personal edification, Jason was offered free attendance at a BMI course (by me, the US director of training, and Kim P., the US manager), but I guess he is sticking to his stance of refusing to leave his own drozpone to recieve the training. His loss.

In regards to the the issue at hand though, whether people ought to be flying bigger suits (of any brand) and selling what they have, feel free to spend your money. If you wallet is deep and you like toys go ahead and do it, just don't sell your smaller suit till you have reeeaaaalllly mastered it. Skipping back and forth between the two will show your strengths and weaknesses in the air. Until you are on your game in that big suit people like my wife will be happy to blister your ass in her Classic II. I won't even get into how much range Loic Jean Albert displays in his "little" S-Fly; unbelievable.

As for safety in flocking, I think that is a trait best displayed by already-very-experienced skydivers. I find a direct corellation between smoothness in flight and total jump numbers, at least when it comes to "zoominess." Anyone in attendance at either of the two past holiday boogies, the big flocks at Rantoul, or the recent bigways in Deland will attest to that.

Chuck

[Cloudi 0]

Quote

BirdMan Inc needs to step up to the plate now and put its people and their holier than thou attitudes in check

"He don't know us very well do he?"

Kim
Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

Quote

BirdMan Inc needs to step up to the plate now and put its people and their holier than thou attitudes in check

YAWN


"He don't know us very well do he?"

...No where even close

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[basebasebase01 0]

Damm, I just wanted to talk about squirlsuits

And "THE V1"



P.S. BM When will the new suit be ready??????

[VectorBoy 0]

Quote

Damm, I just wanted to talk about squirlsuits

And "THE V1"



P.S. BM When will the new suit be ready??????

Dazz right! But I caught the second part, Spill it!

Come on BM insiders splane! You don't want anybody accusing youz guyz of being stealthy-er than thou now do you?

[basebasebase01 0]

Well since were in the subject what are Max out numbers for each suit in the average human body at sea level??

Classic?
Gti?
S1?
S3?
M?
MTR?
Homemadesuits?
PF Tracking suits? (I believe should be in this Poll Because their the $hit Baby?
V1?
V2( I hear the V2 comes with twin props And the glide ratio is 5 to -1 thats right -1)


Another question. How would number of jumps matter? In my book "If you can stick it with 50 W/S jumps then you can stick it" Skill level VS Repetion

[VectorBoy 0]

I was getting very consistant 52-54 MPH numbers on my classic before I got my S-3. Funny thing is the numbers on S-3 were no better than my classic at first.

I could get in to the 45-47 range with the three consistantly after playing around with it's sweet spot. That was over a couple hundred jumps ago and have no idea what I'm capable of now as I just don't do "number gathering" jumps anymore. I should go see.

I got numbers in the low 43-45 right out of the box on the matter two. The early jumps were just that number gathering and don't do much of that anymore. After the first 15 solos with it I was strictly flocking.

I am not a Nazi about flocking I just don't do many solos. Its hard to when you have a couple of extra suits and your friends know it. Good numbers are also a little harder to gather when you fly camera, which I do a lot of now.

I wouldn't say I'm average bodied for a skydiver. About the same weight but not in muscle tone. Then there are the guys that are six foot but only weigh 140~150 pounds. Chase those guys around the sky for a while and see how you like it.

[unclecharlie109 0]

Quote

I hope that Robert has some plans for promoting to the skydiving community not just the BASE jumpers.

Just to clarify something...

The V-1 is for all wingsuit pilots

It doesn't matter whether you get your altitude by turbine or on foot, as this only changes the first few seconds of the flight
Robert has "grande" plans in mind for the skydiving community as well...

[speedformula 0]

I know there was some previous speculation relating to the v1 not having a leg cutaway system.
has Robert or anybody "officially" touched on that point already as to why the suit is not equipped with one ?
my apologies if I missed it

regards
paul

Keeping it real 22x7

[unclecharlie109 0]

Quote

has Robert or anybody "officially" touched on that point already as to why the suit is not equipped with one ?

I'll ask Robi to reply to this one

• Quote