Tonto 1 #1 March 25, 2004 Jumper 1.. 500 jumps, 5'4, 104 lbs, 0 wingsuit dives but planning on getting a GTI as there's not much 2nd hand market for wingsuits that size. Jumper 2.. 4000+ jumps 5'11, 165 lbs... 40 wingsuit dives on borrowed Classic 1's and 2's. What am I (jumper 2) going to need to stay with her? Will a GTI do it, or will I need an S3? tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #2 March 25, 2004 Staying with anyone on their first jumps can be hard work, regardless of which suits you're flying. Once she's got the hang of it though you can start demanding that she puts some effort in to relativity too (!) and you'll be sorted. GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 25 #3 March 25, 2004 Just for one jump, or over the longer term (as you both learn to fly your respective suits better)? For just one jump, I'd try an S-Fly or MTR suit, since what you'll really need is float. The birdman suits are great at flying fast forward, hence generating lift and falling slow. But they have low drag (usually a good characteristic in a suit) so you need to fly fast forward to float up. The S-Fly and MTR tend to float more at slower forward speed. Since your GTi clad student isn't going to be driving all that fast, your primary problem is going to be staying up with her, yet flying slow enough not to leave her behind. Hence, you'd want a slow, but floaty suit, like the S-Fly or MTR. Cue birdman evangelistas...-- Tom Aiello [email protected] SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #4 March 25, 2004 QuoteWill a GTI do it, or will I need an S3? That depends. Is Jumper #1 getting any training from a BMI? I've seen people with 0 Birdman jumps but with plenty of normal jumps kill it on their first flight after having recieved proper instruction. I have also seen the exact opposite as well, high jump #s but fell like anvils. First timers typically fall like rocks even when they are flying until they learn to tweak their body position and fly correctly and efficiently. My advice to you is that which ever suit you feel most comfortable in, use. Chances are jumpers 1s first flight is going to require you to arch hard and probably dive hard to close the distance. Unless jumper 1 nails it out the door, it will feel more like a skydive to you than a flight. It really depends on jumper 1. How heads up is this person and how comfortable are they with the thought of jumping a suit? Anxious, nervous,up tight people,no matter how experienced they are, normally don't do well at any task on the ground or in the sky. Which is why proper training can make all the difference and make their first flight enjoyable as well as safe. No matter which suit you decide to wear, be prepared to fly your hardest to stay with jumper 1 and you shouldn't have any issues."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #5 March 25, 2004 QuoteJust for one jump, or over the longer term (as you both learn to fly your respective suits better)? Thanks for the feedback. Defnitly in the long term. I don't care if the 1st 50 are specs on the horizon if relativity is improving. I've only flown with 1 or 2 other wingsuits, all of us on classics, and the procimity (to within 4 or 5 feet) seems quite easy. Of course docking is another thing altogether... I've heard the same about Matter suits.. but I've also heard they break... and living in Africa, with a crappy exchange rate, I'd prefer a suit I didn't have to send away all the time... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #6 March 25, 2004 QuoteIs Jumper #1 getting any training from a BMI? There are no BMI's in South Africa. There are some more experienced wing suit flyers, but many of them hold no instructional ratings at all and don't relate well to students. Jumper 1 is a freeflyer all the way. She's current, cautious but very aware and relaxed in the air and very keen to jump a suit... but 5'4 100 lb suits don't grow on trees in Africa... She normally jumps a Stilleto 97, but has her Safire 135/PD 126R waiting for Birdman. I tried to set up her 1st BM jump with Chuck in Eloy.. but it never happened cos of weather and timing etc. I think she'll do OK. This weekend I'll be going with a 7000 jump guy on his first ever WS dive in a GTI - and I'll be wearing a Classic, following the "Fly the suit you're most comfortable in" logic since it's the ONLY suit I've jumped.. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #7 March 25, 2004 Tonto its really hard to say. Like Lou said you can be suprised by first timers. Yesterday we had a young lightweight lady that spiralled down out the door then 10 seconds later she was up with us and had some more float available. She was not an anvil. There were three of us on S-3s. To answer your question I think a GTI will do it for you or the S3. If she is on a classic or GTi and you are on a matter1 or crossbow type she will out drive you. I'm not sure if the matter1 is still being made. BUT in the matter2 she will never escape you and they are cheaper than the S-3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #8 March 25, 2004 You can only fly as well as the weakest flyer in the flock. The GTi might have more potential, but if the flyer can not use the potential then any monkey in any suit can fly with them. I was on the first flight of someone that I probally could have flown better with in my freefly suit then in my Classic. Then again I was on a flight last week in my S3 with someone on a GTi and I was struggling to stay with them since they were totally kicking it and my arms were sore already from an earlier flight.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #9 March 25, 2004 Tonto, there are two stock suits at BirdMan that will fit her; actually three. Two Classic II's and one GTi. A solid red Classic II for sure. As for you, I would say that whatever the fall/glide rates you encounter on that first dive, you will both be able to compensate and flock together in whatever suit you get. For you, I would either get a GTi or spend the extra scratch on an S3. There is a good pic of me flying with Katie at Moss Point on my website. See that she is stretched out in that Classic and I have my feet on my butt? No problem flying together at all really, plus I was able to stretch out when we were not docked. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #10 March 25, 2004 QuoteFor just one jump, I'd try an S-Fly or MTR suit, since what you'll really need is float. The birdman suits are great at flying fast forward, hence generating lift and falling slow. But they have low drag (usually a good characteristic in a suit) so you need to fly fast forward to float up. The S-Fly and MTR tend to float more at slower forward speed. While I have no experience with the S-Fly, the way you describe the MTR1 is true enough. The MTR2 is a redesigned and improved system alowing both a large amount of float, and a HUGE amount of drive. It can very easily be flown dirty if needed to fall with faster Flyers. (Tracking dives even!)---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 0 #11 March 25, 2004 QuoteBUT in the matter2 she will never escape you and they are cheaper than the S-3. I realize that it's not always black and white and "better" is too simple of an adjective to use use sometimes... That said, your posts and a few others made me wonder - is the MTR2 "better" (better glide angle, longer flights) than BM's S3?www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #12 March 25, 2004 Tonto, if you're talking about Taya, she will probably do just fine her first jump. She did tracking dives in Eloy and if I remember correctly she picked it up pretty quick. Flying a suit is a bit different but I found my wings pretty quick and I expect her to do the same. Just a little input from a chica. Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #13 March 26, 2004 Spot on. She's a long way from even trying this though. I'm just ruluctant to buy a suit that won't work in that range. The more I learn though, the more I realise it's all the old "range" issue. In AFF, I can stay with 110 to 220 lb students in the same medium jumpsuit, as long as I dress the little one's tight and the big ones loose. Once the other person learns to fly a bit - it all becomes easier. Thanks to everyone for their help on this thread. I'm still somewhere between a GTI and an S3... but that will work it's self out over the next few weeks, I guess. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonM 0 #14 March 26, 2004 Hi Tonto, I am in South Africa and have a just bought a S-Fly (Salomon) suit. You are welcome to come and try it out anytime at PSC. I also found a very good teacher (not100% sure if he is a BM instructor) who guided me through my first flights. Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #15 March 26, 2004 Hey Simon, Were you taught by Tim? He's the closest we have to a 'BMI' here in SA. He taught a former AFF student of mine about wingsuits, and he's the guy who got me going at JSC. A dude is coming over from Switzerland around easter with an S-Fly, and he's exactly my size and weight, so I'll give that a go. I've also just bought a 2nd hand classic. When I go for the next suit, I'll be able to pay back by lending it to others as others lent theirs to me. Are you going to the boogie in Margate? 14 000 ft and less than 3 miles from the beach should make some cross country wingsuit dives possible under the right conditions! tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonM 0 #16 March 26, 2004 Hi Tonto, Yes Tim taught me, he ran an excellent course over 15 jumps. I am going to Margate, just not sure when. I looked at the beach and back flight last time in my classic and didnt have the skill or balls to try it. May be different this time! Simon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #17 March 26, 2004 I realize that it's not always black and white and "better" is too simple of an adjective to use use sometimes... That said, your posts and a few others made me wonder - is the MTR2 "better" (better glide angle, longer flights) than BM's S3? To answer your questions we had spent a day jumping with Cedric and his new matter2. Now normally we flock so speeds are as good as our weakest flyer but he really worked a group of us on S-3s and this group can usually catch most anybody on anything. The suit seamed a little more effortless and natural. Even though this design is new and Cedric is still feeling it out the flights were very impressive. I heard of this happening to another group on a different day in the past. That group was impressed. And one person in that group got to try it personally. There will be Demo suits in a month so more people can give it a first hand review. Personally I'm pretty excited about this prospect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #18 March 27, 2004 I am excited about any new development in the sport. The more birdies in the air the merrier. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chuck
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