fungi3001 0 #1 April 30, 2003 this may be completely stupid and it probably is but i was wondering if it would be posible to land with a BM suit having not opened you canopy, into water or something. from reading other posts it seems as some people can get down the mid 40's in mph. if you were to hit water at that speed would you be alright???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fungi3001 0 #2 April 30, 2003 i just looked at the bird man website and it says its a really bad idea Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #3 April 30, 2003 plus this topic has been discussed in here a lot.. do some searching/reading. I think it will be possible in the future may be possible now but only under some very very precise circumstances that you'd probably only get once in a lifetime Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 April 30, 2003 It's not just a bad idea -- it's a REALLY, REALLY, bad idea!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gus 1 #5 April 30, 2003 Quote It's not just a bad idea -- it's a REALLY, REALLY, bad idea! Yeah, but wouldn't it be cool to be the first to pull it off GusOutpatientsOnline.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #6 April 30, 2003 QuoteIt's not just a bad idea -- it's a REALLY, REALLY, bad idea! What is your take on greg gasson? :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #7 April 30, 2003 Greg is a professional stuntman and I'm certain that everything he's ever done has been well researched before he's attempted it -- a LOT of what he's done requires special rigging that you've never seen in the flashy photos. Looks insane, but really not quite as bad as it appears. You haven't heard anything about him trying to land a wing suit have you?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #8 April 30, 2003 QuoteGreg is a professional stuntman and I'm certain that everything he's ever done has been well researched before he's attempted it -- a LOT of what he's done requires special rigging that you've never seen in the flashy photos. Looks insane, but really not quite as bad as it appears. You haven't heard anything about him trying to land a wing suit have you? Uh no, didn't even know he jumpped them.. i know about the cable in the rig but still .. kinda crazy :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #9 April 30, 2003 Quotethis may be completely stupid and it probably is but i was wondering if it would be posible to land with a BM suit having not opened you canopy, into water or something. from reading other posts it seems as some people can get down the mid 40's in mph. if you were to hit water at that speed would you be alright????Landing a wingsuit without a parachute is very easy. Surviving it is not."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
encinoadam 0 #10 May 1, 2003 It can't be done with today's suits. Here is why. Let's say you are able to get your fall rate down to 40 mph consistently (I can only get mine down to 70). In order to do that, you're going to be travelling about 100 mph horizontally. Try stepping off of a speedboat at 100 mph. And, that is without any vertical speed. You'll kill yourself. If you look at animals that can fly, their "wingloading" is not nearly as high as we are loading our birdman suits. My opinion is that anyone that has ever flown birdman knows that it is not possible to land one. If someone pulls it off, I'll gladly eat my words. Some people think water is a cushion. If you hit it at a high enough speed, it is like hitting concrete. To those who don't like it when people (i.e., me) post on dropzone.com... it's STILL too bad. Get over it. What are you gonna do? Tell on me AGAIN?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #11 May 1, 2003 Actually, forward speed is more like 70 - 90. But yeah, water is no cushion. 25 MPH down and 5 MPH forward knocked me out once."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #12 May 1, 2003 QuoteIt can't be done with today's suits. Here is why. Let's say you are able to get your fall rate down to 40 mph consistently (I can only get mine down to 70). In order to do that, you're going to be travelling about 100 mph horizontally. Try stepping off of a speedboat at 100 mph. And, that is without any vertical speed. You'll kill yourself. If you look at animals that can fly, their "wingloading" is not nearly as high as we are loading our birdman suits. My opinion is that anyone that has ever flown birdman knows that it is not possible to land one. If someone pulls it off, I'll gladly eat my words. Some people think water is a cushion. If you hit it at a high enough speed, it is like hitting concrete. To those who don't like it when people (i.e., me) post on dropzone.com... it's STILL too bad. Get over it. What are you gonna do? Tell on me AGAIN?? I still say I think it is possible with a large air matress.. you still have to be a badass but I think it's survivable that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 55 #13 May 1, 2003 Quote I think it will be possible in the future may be possible now but only under some very very precise circumstances that you'd probably only get once in a lifetime Or not... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
encinoadam 0 #14 May 1, 2003 Kevin - like I said... feel free to make me eat my words... and feel free to try it yourself. You might "think" it is possible, but, respectfully, try giving a single logical reason why it might work. Presumably, you would need wings as large as a hang-glider, which I am guessing is why they are able to land without assistance. You can't take away 95% of the wing and expect a survivable landing. It is similar to the space shuttle. Large, heavy vehicle with hardly any wing. The reason it can fly is powerful engines give plenty of forward speed. You don't have engines, so you'll have to get your forward speed by falling fast enough. Look, it is an awesome idea... but it is nothing more than a fantasy to think anyone could land one. More importantly... even if it *could* be done once, what would it prove? Look, Vesna Vulovic fell from an airliner in 1972 from 33,000 feet and survived, but so what? 99.999% of anyone else that tried it would die. Anyway, that is proof that you can fall from high altitude with no parachute and no wings, and still survive. The significance just isn't that great because by and large, it is not repeatable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmcvey 0 #15 May 1, 2003 QuoteKevin - like I said... feel free to make me eat my words... and feel free to try it yourself. You might "think" it is possible, but, respectfully, try giving a single logical reason why it might work. thats the same thing people said about landing on the moon, to Wright brothers regarding their first aircraft, or about the idea of mobile phones, even "freefall" itself was regarded as impossible 100 years ago. Im not saying it WILL happen, just that you can never be sure what kinda things will be happening in 20 years time. lets just hope noone gets hurt trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #16 May 1, 2003 Try stepping off of a speedboat at 100 mph. And, that is without any vertical speed. You'll kill yourself I don't mean to be a dick here, but... Incorrect. I know. I've done it repeatedly and have it on video. A friend had this 150 horse jet-boat does about 55-60 mph tops on open water. Add a 200-foot rope to the back, a big rubber ring innertube with handles and some idiot (me and a friend) willing to ride the sucker. A jetboat has no prop and no rudder and can corner at top speed almost on a dime. Whip the boat into a tight u-turn at top speed and guess what happens to the rider at the far end of the rope at the outer radius of the turn? Think slingshot. Radically accelerated till g-forces tear you right off the tube. Done right the tube outruns the boat real fast. You can fly for several seconds superman style 3 feet off the water. If you hit with a small enough vertical speed component and high enough horizontal speed you don't break the water at all, just skip and tumble like a flicked insect throwing spray every time some hard part of you like shoe soles elbows or face digs in a bit.... Feels like bouncing along on a liquid rubber cushion...but here's where the concrete part comes in. You must curl up in midair and ride it out. I tried to break the water once during midfling. As soon as the water has a hold of you, you get slammed brutally. I hit so hard once it tore my Ironman watch right off. Its still at the bottom of the lake, and I was nauseated for an hour afterwards. Incidentally water can give you road rash. I recommend body armor for this sort of thing. edit: If I'd hit flying forward facedown headfirst in a birdsuit flight posture I'd have broken my neck instantly, no doubt in my mind. Going off that tube you go backwards, faceup and curled. Or else it hurts. further edit: I take back the superman style part. Fly horizontally and hit water, yes. But only ass-first human ball projectile skip action. It was when I tried to control it and uncurl that it hurt.Live and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #17 May 1, 2003 QuoteKevin - like I said... feel free to make me eat my words... and feel free to try it yourself. You might "think" it is possible, but, respectfully, try giving a single logical reason why it might work. Presumably, you would need wings as large as a hang-glider, which I am guessing is why they are able to land without assistance. You can't take away 95% of the wing and expect a survivable landing. It is similar to the space shuttle. Large, heavy vehicle with hardly any wing. The reason it can fly is powerful engines give plenty of forward speed. You don't have engines, so you'll have to get your forward speed by falling fast enough. Look, it is an awesome idea... but it is nothing more than a fantasy to think anyone could land one. More importantly... even if it *could* be done once, what would it prove? Look, Vesna Vulovic fell from an airliner in 1972 from 33,000 feet and survived, but so what? 99.999% of anyone else that tried it would die. Anyway, that is proof that you can fall from high altitude with no parachute and no wings, and still survive. The significance just isn't that great because by and large, it is not repeatable. Stunt people jump off 6 story buildings all the time for movies, they land typically on air matresses or cardboard boxes. Falling off a 6 story building with no means to slow you down during the fall puts you hitting the bag at greater than 50 MPH. Furthermore I don't know for sure that your forward speed when hitting a vertical descent of 40 / 50 is 100 MPH i can't confirm or deny that, what facts do you have to back up your 100 mph number? Have you jumpped a wingsuit with a GPS or a pitot tube? :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fungi3001 0 #18 May 1, 2003 to lurch - that sounds crazy, if you have it on video is there anyway you could put it on teh net. it would be great to seethanks guy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blair700 0 #19 May 1, 2003 Hey, Can you post some directions so I may read up on this 33000' jump without a canopy?? It would save me tons of $$$$ if it could be replicated Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #20 May 1, 2003 Yeah, water at high speed is no softer than concrete. The times I couldn't submerge a jet ski have done major damage to my neck. The times I've been thrown left me with abrasions. And that's at no greater than 45 MPH in one direction. The giant mattress idea seems more plausible, but even then... I'm not the man to try it."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leroydb 0 #21 May 1, 2003 QuoteLook, Vesna Vulovic fell from an airliner in 1972 from 33,000 feet and survived, but so what? 99.999% of anyone else that tried it would die. I believe she wasn't freefalling at the time... I thought she was in the tail of the plane after it broke/fell off the rest of the plane....Leroy ..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevin922 0 #22 May 1, 2003 QuoteQuoteLook, Vesna Vulovic fell from an airliner in 1972 from 33,000 feet and survived, but so what? 99.999% of anyone else that tried it would die. I believe she wasn't freefalling at the time... I thought she was in the tail of the plane after it broke/fell off the rest of the plane.... I believe you're right. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #23 May 1, 2003 Aw, so we need a new suit with a jet tail-shaped design."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
encinoadam 0 #24 May 1, 2003 My 100 mph estimate comes from reading other posts. I don't know what my forward speed is when I fly (except that I can go faster than the cars on the ground). Even at conservative estimates, you're going to be going at least 70. Let's say you're just doing 50. My point is that the physics seem to say it isn't possible, which is why I mentioned the estimated speed and wingloadings. Your reply was that you just "thought" it was possible but without any facts or opinions on why it might be. It's not like we have any shortage of daredevils that wouldn't try it if they thought they wouldn't break their necks. And, there are actually several examples of people falling out of planes and surviving, not all of which include being in the tail section of the plane. But, being in the tail section just goes to prove that you would have to have *some* degree of protection in order to pull it off. And, that woman suffered spine and head injuries. And, I'm a big fan of the Wright brothers, but people doubted them without knowing *anything* about flight. 100 years later, we know quite a bit about it. I'm no aviation expert, but... look, prove me wrong... PLEASE. Like I said, I'll gladly eat my words. In my opinion, you need bigger wings... something akin to a hang-glider. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base570 1 #25 May 1, 2003 Quote Stunt people jump off 6 story buildings all the time for movies, they land typically on air matresses or cardboard boxes. Falling off a 6 story building with no means to slow you down during the fall puts you hitting the bag at greater than 50 MPH. Actually... 6 stories at approx. 10ft per floor =60feet. Falling 60 feet takes just under 2 seconds, which will have you falling at a little over 30mph. Which is a lot different than 50mph! Landing a wingsuit, I think, can be done right now with the technolgy we have. It will take a lot of practice and training and a lot of balls, but I think it's possible. It's all about finding the "proper" LZ and knowing your normal angle of attack. I would give it a try if the right team was assembled and the funding was in place (it wouldn't be a cheap jump if done right). Of course don't forget my small fee of 1 Beellion dollars! Muwah ha ha If you want to know more of the details on how I think this could be done let me know... Jason Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
