What should i look for in a crew rig???

[C.McKinley 0]

I'm looking into getting into some crew this summer i have a very good teacher to learn from at my DZ so i wanna take it up.
So the question is what are all the gizmos and gagets should i be looking for in a rig???

I already know i would like a 160 Triathlon so i will load at 1.35 - 1.38 (depending on the day ;) and i'm looking at finding one with a retractable D-bag and pilot chute and of course proper line set.

I need to learn more about what i will be in toggles good containers and reserves to use while doing crew and along with anything i may have missed?

p.s. This is a second rig to me. So not looking for it to do anything but crew. Main rig is a Mirage G3 with a 126 PDR and a 135 Vengeance.

thanx

[faulknerwn 36]

Hopefully you have more jumps than your profile says? A Vengeance loaded at 1.6 at 160 jumps?

Any reason you're choosing a Triathalon instead of a Lightning?

Toggles - big. Ya wanna be able to grab them without looking.. You want a reserve bigger than your 126 for sure. You're more likely to be landing a reserve with crap around you or in other questionable circumstances than in freefall.

Containers are a toss-up. You want as snag-free as possible, and good reserve pin protection. Lots of CRWdogs prefer pullouts because its a more positive deployment, but that's not a necessity.

[C.McKinley 0]

My jumps are closer to 210 now. But i'm also a hop 'n' pop junky all i care about is canopies and flite opposed to freefall. Freefall is just the way to get a canopy above my head. I also have some very good canopy pilots watching and coaching me.

thanks for the concern tho :)

[C.McKinley 0]

oh and was thinking triathlon over lightning only because, used lightnings are harder to find and more expensive.

Live Hard, Fly Fast, Hope For The Best!!!

[homer 0]

That may be true about hard to find especially a 160 but they are out there and the prices aren't that bad compared to a new one.

If you are as serious about CRW as you sound you may want to take another minute and think about a Lightning. The TRI is good canopy for fun CRW at your DZ but if you plan on attending any sort of skills camps, the lightning is what you want as it is the standard canopy of choice. Like canopies (2 TRI or 2 Light) at the same wing load work great together but different canopies (1 TRI & 1 Light) still at the same wing load aren't as compatible and will not fly the same. A Lightning has a steeper decent rate than the TRI so when flying side by side the Lightning will need a little rear riser to plane the canopy and stay level or you on the TRI may need a little front to stay level.

If it was possible to get the opening and landing of a TRI with the flight of a Lightning I would take the canopy in a heart beat.

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[C.McKinley 0]

A good friend of mine just got a 160 TRI set-up for crew as we've been talking about it for a while now. So with that said and not having much experience with crew Tri sounds better for me untill i decided if i'm going to actively pursue it. If i do then i will be looking at a brand new lightning with all the options.

thanx

Live Hard, Fly Fast, Hope For The Best!!!

[dragon2 0]

So does your friend have a hybrid Tri or a CRW Tri? There's 3 different kinds of tri's, ideally you'll be flying the same type otherwise you'll have problems with one opening FAST and one opening slow. Both these types of canopy are pretty hard to find 2nd hand btw, a Lightning 160 is easier but can only be matched to a comp Tri because of the openings (fast).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 0]

BTW i know of 2 Lightning 160's for sale both for 795 euro (~1025 USD), might be a couple more out here since they're pretty big (143 and 126 is what most are flying here).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[birddog 0]

you get what you pay for

Deal with it

[C.McKinley 0]

My friends im not sure if its hybrid or crew but either way it looks like i'm almost convinced that i want a lightning now!!!

Live Hard, Fly Fast, Hope For The Best!!!

[homer 0]

You godda love peer pressure. Welcome to the dark side

CSA #699 Muff #3804

[chuckbrown 0]

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a Lightning 160 is easier but can only be matched to a comp Tri because of the openings (fast).

Put a mesh slider on a hybrid Tri and pack it like a reserve and you'll open faster than a Lightning.

You'll also get the sh*t knocked out of you, and wonder why you just did that.

[stitch 0]

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BTW i know of 2 Lightning 160's for sale both for 795 euro (~1025 USD), might be a couple more out here since they're pretty big (143 and 126 is what most are flying here).

But, what type are they?? If they're not a competition trim ZP Lightning, you don't want it. There's alot of demo composite and "F-111" canopies out there, but not to many "ZP" versions.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[chuckbrown 0]

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If they're not a competition trim ZP Lightning, you don't want it.

Nothing wrong with those. If you're flying with a sequential trimmed canopy, somebody may need to add links. The sequential canopy can add links to the rear risers to bring the nose down or the competition canopy can add links to the front risers to bring the nose up. Depending on the age and condition of the canopy, you might not even notice any difference at all.

[dragon2 0]

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BTW i know of 2 Lightning 160's for sale both for 795 euro (~1025 USD), might be a couple more out here since they're pretty big (143 and 126 is what most are flying here).

But, what type are they?? If they're not a competition trim ZP Lightning, you don't want it. There's alot of demo composite and "F-111" canopies out there, but not to many "ZP" versions.

No idea, I'm not the one selling them and they're way too big for me to be interesting. But nothing much wrong with hybrid Lightnings, we have some people freefalling with the bigger lightnings too and then they need to be hybrid.

I have no idea what you mean by competition trim, there's sequential trim and rotation trim, and maybe the world record trim too. "Comp" trim doesn't exist AFAIK, every team has it's own wants and needs.

There's a Dutch website which acts as intermediary for selling and buying all kinds of Lightnings, here:
http://home.hetnet.nl/~kuiper1968/index.html
the 2 160's I mentioned are for sale at our DZ shop, here:
http://www.parachutecase.nl/theshop/artikel/mains/mains.html
it lists both 160's as having world record trim, they probably WERE in the world record

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[stitch 0]

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we have some people freefalling with the bigger lightnings too

I'd pay to see that. There have been no Lightnings recently produced(maybe never) that will handle terminal deployments. Don't believe me, check with PD.

I've never heard of a hybrid Lightning. There are composite(ZP topskin only) demo lightnings. Not the same as a hybrid Tri, and not safe for terminal deployments.

Also, the competition ZP Lightning is sequential trim.

"No cookies for you"- GFD
"I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65
Don't be a "Racer Hater"

[Eward 0]

Saskia the 2 Lightnings 160 with WR-trim where you talking about are sold.

Eward

[dragon2 0]

A hybrid Lightning is half ZP/half F111, like say a PdF Merit and a PD Silhouette. Trust me hybrid Lightnings do exist "Composite" is probably the same thing but have never heard it called that, you don't call a Silhouette "composite" do you?

A hybrid Tri however is a ZP freefall canopy modified for CRW.

But yeah, at least 2 guys I know regularly freefall with Lightnings, I think both have hybrid 176's but not 100% sure. It's a really bad idea to freefall with a ZP Lightning, and anything smaller than 143 is always ZP.

I still don't get the competition trim thing, as we also have a rotation competition?! I'll stick to sequential or rotation

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Calvin19 0]

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A hybrid Lightning is half ZP/half F111, like say a PdF Merit and a PD Silhouette. Trust me hybrid Lightnings do exist "Composite" is probably the same thing but have never heard it called that, you don't call a Silhouette "composite" do you?

A hybrid Tri however is a ZP freefall canopy modified for CRW.

But yeah, at least 2 guys I know regularly freefall with Lightnings, I think both have hybrid 176's but not 100% sure. It's a really bad idea to freefall with a ZP Lightning, and anything smaller than 143 is always ZP.

I still don't get the competition trim thing, as we also have a rotation competition?! I'll stick to sequential or rotation

'Composite' is what BASE hopers call a 'hybrid' sail.

but on some better BASE gear, the topskin is the composite part.

the first third of the topskin is ZP, all the rest f111.

then there are some that are full zp topskin, and f111 belly.

i call it the foreskin.

[relyon 0]

A few things:

There are three trims. sequential, rotation, and demo. Sequential is the "flatest" and demo the "steepest" (demo is the same trim as the old PD main series). WR isn't a trim, it's a line length spec. Competition is whatever the team decides, but most use sequential trim and short lines. They land like shit because the recovery arc is very short and pendular action high.

ZP Lightnings have been taken to terminal many times, but the opening shock can be brutal, even with a solid slider. There are definitely better alternatives for doing a little CRW after a freefall jump, notably Triathlons and Spectres.

I prefer to do CRW under my Lightning and get a little freefall time after cutaways .

Bob

[bob.dino 0]

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They land like shit because the recovery arc is very short and pendular action high.

They only land like shit if you don't know how to fly them. At the recent Australian nationals, Michael Vaughan and Robbie McMillan (both on the Australian swoop team) were doing synchronised 270s into switchblades (finishing with both toggles in one hand). Very cool to watch.

[br0k3n 0]

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They only land like shit if you don't know how to fly them

Now I seem to remember watching some fella on a crew triathlon stick a downwinder on his first jump which led to a few cartwheels across the LZ.. now for some reason i just cant seem to remember who it was...

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[starkmtn 0]

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They land like shit because the recovery arc is very short and pendular action high.

They only land like shit if you don't know how to fly them. At the recent Australian nationals, Michael Vaughan and Robbie McMillan (both on the Australian swoop team) were doing synchronised 270s into switchblades (finishing with both toggles in one hand). Very cool to watch.

Topic for discussion:

True or false: Lightnings can land well if and only if you are willing to use your front risers on approach.

(I'm talking no- to low-wind days, now, not the nice ones where anyone can land tippy-toe...)

"You guys should just do CRW. There are so many more ways to get killed, it makes a CYPRES seem safe." -Kevin Keenan

[relyon 0]

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They only land like shit if you don't know how to fly them.

The landing characteristics of any canopy - notably recovery arc and pendular action - change considerably with line length. I jumped a sequential trim L126 with 6.5' lines in competition, and the same canopy and trim with 8' lines recreationally. It flew quite differently and required different landing/flaring timing and technique. The short lined version had noticeably less margin for error.

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Topic for discussion:

True or false: Lightnings can land well if and only if you are willing to use your front risers on approach.

False. There's more margin for timing the flare with the extra speed, but it's not necessary.

Bob

[dragon2 0]

Absolutely false. I never used my frontrisers even on 0 wind days, and usually landed on my feet even on those 0 wind days, i only went to my knees a few times when screwing up (first jump of the weeken + 0 wind + nervous before the jump, etc). On the whole I landed them just fine, and I'm not the greatest canopy pilot, so if i can do it ...

ciel bleu,
Saskia