why am I cambering?

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Hey guys...

New freeflier here. Ive just been watching video of myself from a bunch of jumps and notice that my legs are cambering a lot.

Why is this?

A freefly coach had brought this to my attention and I understand it's bad body position. It feels the most "stable" way to fly my sit at the moment but I'd like to correct it.

If anyone has any insight about this phenomenon or if I simply need to be more aware of keeping my legs straight, please chime in.

Sorry for the photos, its really the only decent ones I could find that show what's going on with my legs.

Also bear in mind that I have been doing lots of 2 ways and solos trying to get it down and feel that my sit has come along way. I don't think I'm doing it quite as much anymore but obviously some of you more experienced freefliers might have ideas of common causes, or any other input.

[SimonBones 1]

Try this on the ground. Sit at the edge of something (like a table or bench) where only your butt is on it and your legs are dangling so you can assume a sitfly position. Have someone push up from the under side of your foot to simulate the wind pushing your legs up.

What you will find you probably do to keep your balance and not get pushed back is lean forward (shazaam backslide). This is the source of your camber problem. You are leaning forward OVER your legs to balance yourself upright. This puts your feet back and under you.

To correct this muscle memory on the ground, have this person keep pushing your feet up and practice instead balancing be leaning back a little, curving your shoulders back, and applying leg pressure with your quads. You have been flying lazy legs and use your upper body to compensate by leaning forward.

The difference between balancing freeflying and belly flying is the difference between active and passive muscular input. On your belly, you're told to relax, go limp, arch lazily and you will be balanced on your belly. This is not true for sit/headdown positions. For sit/headdown you are always applying an active muscular input to with your legs and arms for balance.

In sitflying you apply this input with your quads pushing down your legs, and your shoulders pushing down your arms (most people don't have a problem with that one).

In head down flying you are applying active muscular input with your ass muscles to spread your legs wide out (straddle) against the wind pressure trying to push them together.

Practice that balance thing all with your quads and take your upper body completely out of the equation by leaning back. At first in the air you may feel a bit off balance since it is new and you've developed a bad habit, but once you get used to it, your learning curve will improve greatly

108 way head down world record!!!
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[beowulf 1]

Great explaination! I couldn't have said any better.


To OP. Think pressing down with your heels more and sitting up straight, this will help your sit flying form.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Thanks for the detailed response! Will give those exercises a try and will practice in the sky asap.

Much appreciated.

[Jazzthieve 0]

I have a question, is that rig you're wearing a custom fit cause on pic 2 it seems you're scooping up alot of air at the back.

[HALO1 0]

Simon - Excellent input as always.

Jazz - Was about to mention the same thing. OP, if this is a custom rig from Wings, you may want to contact Scarlett and let her know you're having issues with your laterals. Otherwise, you might explore the use of a belly band or have Wings make a lateral mod.

Don't be sexist… Broads hate that.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Yes it is a custom wings. Funny you mention, Scarlett, actually I saw her at skyfest and she took a look at the rig.

There are no cut-in laterals on the rig.

I'm not too concerned with the rig popping off my back in a sit. I can come up with several examples of this happening with other freefliers and feel like it is a pretty normal occurrence considering my body type and position.

Should I be worried?

[pilot-one 0]

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Yes it is a custom wings. Funny you mention, Scarlett, actually I saw her at skyfest and she took a look at the rig.

There are no cut-in laterals on the rig.

I'm not too concerned with the rig popping off my back in a sit. I can come up with several examples of this happening with other freefliers and feel like it is a pretty normal occurrence considering my body type and position.

Should I be worried?

Ever hear the term "the hole"?

[Jazzthieve 0]

I'd consider this an abnormal occurance for any body type at any position. Yes, you should be worried, imagine having a premature opening in that position with that much space at the back.

[likearock 1]

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I'm not too concerned with the rig popping off my back in a sit. I can come up with several examples of this happening with other freefliers and feel like it is a pretty normal occurrence considering my body type and position.

Should I be worried?

If you saw other freefliers with that kind of air between them and the backpad, they probably had rigs that weren't custom fitted. It shouldn't be that way and it will affect your aerodynamic profile and ultimately your flight.

[SimonBones 1]

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Ever hear the term "the hole"?

I have. I poop out of it.

I think his rig is fine. A rig that comes off the back just a tad on the bottom allows more use of the shoulders for flying and don't really see how it presents a problem if the legstraps don't do the climb up the leg. There are dozens of people who have completely floating rigs. Let's be honest, how many of those were in any fatality reports in any recent years? Tandems don't count.

You're rig is fine. Move on.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[likearock 1]

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Ever hear the term "the hole"?

I have. I poop out of it.

I think his rig is fine. A rig that comes off the back just a tad on the bottom allows more use of the shoulders for flying and don't really see how it presents a problem if the legstraps don't do the climb up the leg. There are dozens of people who have completely floating rigs. Let's be honest, how many of those were in any fatality reports in any recent years? Tandems don't count.

You're rig is fine. Move on.

Simple question: if you bought a custom fit container and it came off your back that way, would you feel the same way or would you maybe have a few words with the manufacturer?

[SimonBones 1]

Probably wouldn't even notice if it fit comfy. I bought a custom rig and have about 900 jumps on it so far. Couldn't even tell you how much it comes off my back. I'll have to find some video and actually look.

108 way head down world record!!!
http://www.simonbones.com
Hit me up on Facebook

[likearock 1]

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Probably wouldn't even notice if it fit comfy.

I guess everyone's different. For me a big part of a rig's comfort includes a snug fit on the back.

[pilot-one 0]

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Probably wouldn't even notice if it fit comfy.

I guess everyone's different. For me a big part of a rig's comfort includes a snug fit on the back.

Ditto that!

[Andy9o8 0]

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Ever hear the term "the hole"?

I have. I poop out of it.

I think his rig is fine. A rig that comes off the back just a tad on the bottom allows more use of the shoulders for flying and don't really see how it presents a problem if the legstraps don't do the climb up the leg. There are dozens of people who have completely floating rigs. Let's be honest, how many of those were in any fatality reports in any recent years? Tandems don't count.

You're rig is fine. Move on.

Well, let's say your leg straps & chest strap are looser than normal on a jump, for whatever reason. You're in a sit. Then the rig scoops up off your back like in OP's Pic #2. Then you have a premature and deploy in a sit. Seems to me to be a risky cascade of factors.

[Snowflake 0]

I have not the slightest clue what cambering means. The definition I got from the dictionary doesn't seem to apply. Help a yankee out.

Your legs from the knee down are going backwards, less than 45 from the knee down. That will induce a little backslide also. Try to keep them going 45 from the knee down.

[pilot-one 0]

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I have not the slightest clue what cambering means. The definition I got from the dictionary doesn't seem to apply. Help a yankee out.

Your legs from the knee down are going backwards, less than 45 from the knee down. That will induce a little backslide also. Try to keep them going 45 from the knee down.

I think you mean 90 not 45 right?
What I think he means by cambering is his knees are farther apart than his feet. And also like you mentioned his feet are too far underneath his butt.

[ASTKU 1]

I thought you weren't supposed to jump a vid camera until like 200 jumps. Is that right?

[Bill_K 0]

It is a USPA recommendation to not jump one until 200, and there are reasons for that. I was one that actually read and listened and did not put one on until after 200 and there are still times that I don't jump one, usually when I'm trying to focus on learning something new that I'm not comfortable with. I want as few distractions as possible. Like skydiving though, it's a personal choice... no need to rush it though, there is lots of time.

[Vertifly 0]

Hey Andrew, It's dave.

For a little while, get into the habit of pointing your toes forward.

There are a few stages of these natural habits to be conciously aware of in the beginning. From the pics, I'd say you have to start flying a little more aggressively. Always Be Flying. It's hard to relax when you're freeflying. Relaxation takes time.

Work your way into a good neutral sit is the first goal.

Being comfortable enough to drive around and returning to the neutral is the second.

The third is changing body position in place (taking docks, transitioning, etc.)

Then you move to the really good stuff.

Peace. See you back at Zhills.

Vertifly

[skron 0]

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It is a USPA recommendation to not jump one until 200, and there are reasons for that. I was one that actually read and listened and did not put one on until after 200 and there are still times that I don't jump one, usually when I'm trying to focus on learning something new that I'm not comfortable with. I want as few distractions as possible. Like skydiving though, it's a personal choice... no need to rush it though, there is lots of time.

I have to agree. I only have 266 jumps and have never flown a camera. I feel I have progressed faster in freeflying than some others I know that put a camera on their head at 50 jumps. Eventually I would like to be a videographer, but for now I am having too much fun learning new things without the distraction of pointing a camera in the right direction.

My body position looked a lot like the OP's pics when I started. My suggestion to the OP would be to leave the camera on the ground and focus on body position.

Well behaved women don't often make history.

[SPAWNmaster 0]

Thanks Dave,

Appreciate the coach jumps at Skyfest and your input in this thread.

Peace
-AG