2-way freefly taken out of nationals this year???

[tuck 0]

so after hearing many rumors, i emailed the USPA asking if 2-way artistic freefly was remaining in nationals this year, and this is the strange response i got:

"Two-way artistic freefly is now called VRW at the Collegiates and it won't be at the US Nationals in Ottawa. That's the word from Competition Director Larry Bagley."

since 2-way and VRW are two totally different events, this is confusing.... i also admit that i sent the email through myspace, so maybe it played out like a game of telephone in the USPA office, and things got abit scrambled. what ever the case may be, has anyone else heard anything from anyone at USPA about this? i know that last year the number of teams that entered this event was at an all time low. it would be a shame to hear that this event had been laid to rest. growing up watching guys like the fly boyz put so much style and creative flow into there flying was what drew me to this sport. is this really the end of creative style events for freeflying? i love VRW and it is no doubt the wave of the future for freeflying, but i feel (just my humble 2 cents) it takes a bit of the human element out of freeflying. less free and more robotic. but i digress....

anyone else know for sure if it has been removed?

:::rev tuck:::

:::Team Scarecrow:::
East Coast bad boys of body flight

[rhys 0]

Probably just rumor?

While at the world champs, some teams considered the French freefliers (Babylon) to be performing two way freestyle not freefly while the French called the US freefly 'Ghetto freefly'!

The French deserved to win, even if they are on a salary!

IMO when the focus is on turning points and who cares what your chin and toes are doing it is VRW, if it looks nice and yes 'graceful' then it is freefly.

Don't worry freefly will not change to VRW at the world championships.

VRW is another event altogether. It will take a few years to be included at the WPC but it will not take over from freefly, of that I am sure.

It would be silly to take freefly away from the artistic events.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Andrewnewell 0]

VRW and Freeflying? I don’t think their even the same thing.

It’s almost as if people have taken concept of freefly. Which I guess is about exploration and creativity and locked it down into structured competitive VRW? Which kind of makes it not Freeflying at all really. Probably why it's called Vertical Relative Work and not Freefly Relative Work. It seems to me that people see flyers flying upside down or head up and labelled it Freeflying. I’m not saying VRW is bad, if it goes towards more people becoming more disciplined and complete flyers then Im all for it.

***While at the world champs, some teams considered the French freefliers (Babylon) to be performing two way freestyle not freefly while the French called the US freefly 'Ghetto freefly'! ***

Fairone.

The thing is with Artistic competition is that it’s artistic! Artistic free routines are created to work on a number of different levels...

Free routines incorporate technicality and therefore push the boundaries of what can be achieved in flight. This gives a routine weight and complexity showing of a flyers technical skill set. A free routine tells a story (Paints a picture). which basically means that a free routine should have an emotional impact on the judges, which is the goal of any type of Art I guess. It should show a flying style or concept which is unique to that team. In Babylon’s case speed, strength and style.

If you were to bust out a bad ass break dance routine at an Olympic gymnastic floor work competition, the judges might not be too impressed.

Artistic Freefling is a free fly competition not a free tricking competition.

[tuck 0]

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Don't worry freefly will not change to VRW at the world championships.

VRW is another event altogether. It will take a few years to be included at the WPC but it will not take over from freefly, of that I am sure.

It would be silly to take freefly away from the artistic events.

im sure they will keep it in the WPC, as europe seems to produce alot of 2 way teams. but if they take it from the nationals here in the US, how are new teams supposed to get anywhere or learn anything about competing? it will be the death of the art of 2 way. for me, theres nothing better than jumping with my best friend/team mate and pushing each other, learning the way each other fly, and coming up with awesome tricks. it pushed freeflying to where we are at now.
ive spoke to people that were at last years nationals and they said that the VRW was all the new rage. it was only a trial event to see how it would go over. there where more teams that showed up for VRW then for the 2way freefly. dont quote me but i think there were only 4 teams in each class for 2 way freefly. and most of them were from texas. other than myself and my team mate, i havent met anyone in the past 2 years that was interested in 2 way. it happened to skysurfing (regardless of how anyone feels about it) was one of the best things to happen to our sport. it was on tv all the time! because its jawdropping to watch. how many times do you meet a whuffo and they ask "do you do the board thing?!?" and the common answer is "no. nobody does that anymore." and grant it, the 2 best skysurfers in the world died tragically, which im sure had a huge impact. i feel like 2 way is going the way of skysurfing. i hope that i am wrong. i hope they keep it in nationals, but americans seem to be more into the VRW lately. and as i said before, its an awesome progression for the sport. it will no doubt raise the skill level and push people to do amazing things that were not even considered 5 years ago. new jumpers are getting interested in it before there off student status. they see team mandrin on the cover of parachutist and want to do that as soon as possible. its great for the sport and its growing like crazy. BUT its over shadowing the creative side of freeflying. i wasent around when freeflying was first starting, but i was captivated seeing it on tv. talking to jumpers that were a part of that revoltion is awesome. i love hearing the stories about wearing crazy sit suits, super baggy wild freefly suits, and the 90's partying that is legend (at least at the ranch). it was about being free and not doing boring (although challening) rw jumps. and im sure one day if im jumping in 10 years, i'll tell the newbies about the invention and perfection VRW. prob referring to "the good old days, when skydiving was dangerous and fun. low hooks and hundreds of jumps to learn head down. and we walked to altitude... in the winter no less, with no shoes on". the stories stay the same, but the faces change. i get it. i guess im just venting because i was really looking forward to competing in the intermediate 2 way freefly. i wanted to do it even before i started aff. *sigh* ok i got myself a tissue... im done bitching for now. but i still want to know for sure if its going to remain in nationals this year.

maybe if there is enough interest and emails sent to uspa they will keep it. let me know what everyone thinks

:::Team Scarecrow:::
East Coast bad boys of body flight

[beowulf 1]

I am not very artistic so coming up with new moves is a stretch for me. I much prefer VRW. I would like to see 2 way Freefly stay around, but with out enough competitors I don't see how it will.

[MakeItHappen 15]

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so after hearing many rumors, i emailed the USPA asking if 2-way artistic freefly was remaining in nationals this year, and this is the strange response i got:

"Two-way artistic freefly is now called VRW at the Collegiates and it won't be at the US Nationals in Ottawa. That's the word from Competition Director Larry Bagley."

..... maybe it played out like a game of telephone in the USPA office, and things got abit scrambled....

At Collegiates, the 2-way freefly artistic event has been changed to 2-way vRW.

At Nationals, there is still the 2-way freefly artistic event and 4-way vRW.

I think maybe the confusion comes from the pronoun it in the phrase "it won't be at the US Nationals in Ottawa".
'It', I believe, was meant to refer to 2-way vRW. There is no 2-way vRW at Nationals.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[dharma1976 0]

you going to nationals this year with your plutonic life partner???

That would be sweet...good luck Tuck!

Junky

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[fedykin 0]

To air a discussion we've had personally 100 times.

there is a distinct difference between relative freestyle and freefly.
Everyone here feels(yourself included) that the distortion of the FAI judging criteria has crosses all boundaries. One sentance of 'minimal control surfaces' has become a convient by roads by which judges who are ex-freestylists themselves, who dont entirely understand current freefly, judge events has dissilousoned alot of flyers, and doesnt in a proportional display what i would call prudent judging bu their own criteria. Lets me frank, some people too have taken advantage of the state of affairs by making a long term project of the situation by getting on the FAI council and rewritting rules to suit themselves. Im not going to start a VRW vs 3 way argument but state a couple of plain truths. 3 way is not olympic gymnastics, we're talking about a aeronautic pursuit here. Some people who couldnt keep up with the status quo have literally re-written the rules in their favour and it has totally disillusioned many a team. TBC. Im off to bed. You better pick me up tommow at teeside.

[eUrNiCc 0]

I hope that this is all just a misunderstanding...

"2 way artistic" at Collegiates was always compulsories without free rounds.

I was also planning on going to Ottawa this year for 2 way Freefly. All of the 2 way info is still in the 2007 Skydivers Competition Manual, so I figured that the competition was still on...

Egad, A BASE life defiles a bad age.

[KidWicked 0]

Freefly should never be competitive. That's the point.

Coreece: "You sound like some skinheads I know, but your prejudice is with Christians, not niggers..."

[Andrewnewell 0]

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that the distortion of the FAI judging criteria has crosses all boundaries.

Distortion of the rules or natural evolution of a specific Discipline? Flying styles will come and go and new developments will continually arise and be exploited by teams to further push the boundaries of what is capable in the air. The rules and criteria on which artistic events are judged have to be modified in accordance with changing trends within the discipline. If this does not occur then we defeat the point of artistic freefly. It’s all about doing something different. Thinking outside the box. Showing something new and doing it with style.

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judge events has disillusioned allot of flyers, and doesnt in a proportional display what I would call prudent judging but their own criteria. Lets me frank, some people too have taken advantage of the state of affairs by making a long term project of the situation by getting on the FAI council and rewriting rules to suit themselves.

Disilusioned. Hmmmm. I’m afraid that this comes down to doing Research. There are teams that enter to win and show their stuff and there are teams that just enter to show their stuff. What I mean is that the latter fail to take the changing trends within the discipline into account. What do they expect? Now Im not saying these teams are of inferior but they are not playing by the rules of the game. It’s their choice.

Taking advantage of the state of affairs.? Hmm surely that’s what good teams do. If you’re a high profile team, you are going to have an effect on the discipline and the way freeflying is judged. If I was in one of the top teams and had a chance to inspire people to fly using my team’s concepts and styles I'd do it.

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3 way is not Olympic gymnastics, we're talking about a aeronautic pursuit here

Agreed, it’s not an Olympic discipline, but that’s due to many other factors that have been discussed in other threads. There is no reason why Freefly teams shouldn’t train hard and try to raise the standard of their flying. I personally think it’s quite smart to model freefly routines around Gymnastic concepts.

Every team has their own style of flying and I will agree that what’s in Vogue at the moment has a particular look. Essentially a freestyle look. There is an obvious reason for this; both freestyle and Freefly are Artistic disciplines. They are judged on the same basic criteria. Before freefly there was freestyle and it comes as no surprise to me that Freeflying will follow the same type of progression as freestyle did. I guess it comes down how you want to label things. I'd rather not put labels on a style of flying and just accept that change and progression happens. You can either go with the this and push a style that’s "in" or Grabb balls and run with your own unique stuff, Its just if you do that then be prepared for people not to understand or like it.

There is no real argument about VRW and Artistic freefly. They are totally different. It comes down to what people like doing.

[trigger 0]

Caveat- This isnt trig its piers
Okay pont by point- Flying styles is great but in comparing competitors there has to be an objective means of comparing one another and this is achieved by the 'more difficult vs. less difficult' gauge we're all fairly familiar with, that the FAI uses to judge various moves. It is interesting that a single line ' minimal use of control surfaces' has now taken primacy. As there are over a dozen other gauges, why then should a single line determine 95% of the point mark up? I believe it is unwitten secondary reasons that are not on the judging criteria. Point- If there is a judging criteria, that the FAI deems as being the accepted means by which artistic competitors should be judged in a weighed manner, and if they arent being judged by that, then something is wrong.

Dissilusioned- Okay, There will always be tigers and goldfish in all competition, given. However, it is different state of affairs if one of the competitors is on the FAI council. Its a bit like a policeman being on the policemans compensations comitee, distorts objective decision making a bit, doesnt it. Inspiring people, influence is certainly going to be felt left and right, up and down from all comeptitors too everyone, free flow of information and all that. Point- Having the effective head of a competitive team in a highly influential position in a subjective competition shouldnt be allowed. A member of Babylon is on the FAI council, im not going to delve into motives, however, a system of checks and balances should be in place.
Inspiring people- Well, that does have the suggestion(if i read it correctly) that a degree of benevolant action is contained in all this. I wouldnt neccesarily agree. Compared to other teams, they have in fact done the least and taken the most. Compare them to say, Guano who continually organise(for free) and hook up events like Project Horizon, Babyon pale in comparison especially as they'r salaried and most others are not. Clearly everyones gotta make a living, but in terms of meaningful cotribution in a manner that doesnt involved dirrect personal financial gain(DVD's sales, shirts etc..) the guys we're talking about are pretty much at the bottom of the 'net benevolant contributors' list.

Styles- We could go on for days, but in terms of something measurable and comparible there is a guide, right or wrong and it isnt being applied.

.CHOP WOOD COLLECT WATER.

[Andrewnewell 0]

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There has to be an objective means of comparing one another and this is achieved by the 'more difficult vs. less difficult' gauge we're all fairly familiar with, that the FAI uses to judge various moves. It is interesting that a single line ' minimal use of control surfaces' has now taken primacy.

There’s actually an examples scale (EG Multi axis rotations better than Single axis...) that acts as a Guide for the judges and a skills box for technical moves. I don’t believe that minimal use of control surfaces has any more weight over any of the other examples. I do think there is an attitude that judges prefer "something simple done well over something difficult done badly. It's not just about tricks. Anyways there were plenty of examples of High technicality shown with most of the top teams at the world meet. (E.g. Linked Head to head eagle, with no hand grips, Not Techy Enough??!). I felt that the rounds that scored the highest were the ones that showed a balance of technical tricks flown in all, Or as many orientations as possible and that also showed originality and balance throughout.

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Having the effective head of a competitive team in a highly influential position in a subjective competition shouldn’t be allowed.

Maybe you’re right. But even if there is direct influence I would still imagine that the most influential team (Champions) would still set level that the other teams would work towards, probably by adopting the similar styles and concepts that score highly.

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Clearly everyone’s got to make a living, but in terms of meaningful contribution in a manner that doesn’t involved direct personal financial gain(DVD's sales, shirts etc..) the guys we're talking about are pretty much at the bottom of the 'net benevolent contributors' list.

I suppose this all depends on what you consider to be inspiring to flyers. The teams that give back to the community in a direct manner, "degree of benevolent action is contained". Good on ‘em, I say. But who’s to say this has greater effect than indirect methods of contribution. I don’t think your statement about Babylon being at the bottom of the net benevolent contributors list is accurate. I mean how are you actually gauging what inspires people to get better? Free coaching? Winning medals? organising? The list is a long one. I believe the current world champ’s actually do a very good job of promoting growth within freefly by constantly pushing the boundaries of what is possible. By pushing it these guys are giving access to different styles, different approaches and different ways to think about flying and what we can achieve.

[fedykin 0]

It is interesting to note that when the dive is subdivided into a number of category's - Difficulty, Camera, Technical, Presentation for judging it doesnt seem to be the case where the actual judging criteria is actually being applied. If everyone feels that a different criteria should be applied, then great, change the criteria, however to leave the state of affairs as it stands just breeds apathy and less and less team competing due to an unwritten judging code.


In looking at the difficulty table it does seem somewhat freestyle orientated- ie... Ideal body position etc... and wordings such as 'looks good' and so on and so forth. Looking at the dives historically, it is apparent that there has been a significant dip in terms of amount of content in the artistic routine and compulsary routine, the days of 22+ point rounds is long past, why....
This unwritten criteria of 'clean points' and clean routines. In terms of compulsaries, which got Alchemy a couple busts, this is again a missreading of the FAI code, a point is a point, if the criteria is met, then 1 point, however people have been getting busts in high speed routines.
When put into perspective that all of this started to happen when 1 or 2 freestylists got onto the FAI council and then progressively the routines became slower, less points of compuls' things do seem a bit as if by design than by chance. When you look at the routines in realtion to the scoring then look at the FAI guide,it doesnt add up ie... Guano!


Point- there are less teams competing now than in the past and routines in many senses have become slower. Its very much relative freestyle.

In terms of technicality, not much been shown by the 'obvious team' hasnt been done before, its just being presented in a slightly better manner.
Benelovance- In this i mean, organising events free of charge. Babylon- 0 points. Im pretty sure every record attempt in the US was knocked up by Alchemy and Project Horizon by the NorCAl crew, with no financial gain in mind. And they have added to the talent pool much much more than Babylon. To say that by selling alot of Tshirts and DVDs they'r doing a great job promoting the sport is a bit hollow. Self intrest that ends up with a 0 sum gain. how many events bar 1 2 years ago have the organised, and on that event i feel it was nothing more than self promotion that they were paid to do! Good track record!

[Andrewnewell 0]

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It is interesting to note that when the dive is subdivided into a number of category's - Difficulty, Camera, Technical, Presentation for judging it dosen’t seem to be the case where the actual judging criteria is actually being applied. If everyone feels that a different criteria should be applied, then great, change the criteria

Mate there’s two judges for Technical and three for presentation. Well I think so at leaste. Your right, if people don’t like it then you can always wright a letter, but to be honest there seems plenty of teams out there who are happy to fly under the established rules and judging system. Otherwise there would be loads of letters??

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ie... Ideal body position etc... and wordings such as 'looks good' and so on and so forth. Looking at the dives historically, it is apparent that there has been a significant dip in terms of amount of content in the artistic routine and compulsary routine, the days of 22+ point rounds is long past, why....

Looks good? what are you going on about. its an artistic event mate. Its meant to look good, impress, inspire. That’s what its about. I wouldn’t say there’s been a significant dip, well maybe of static tricks that intend to tick the technical boxes, but who really wants to do that in free routines when were surrounded by such a big sky. OK so there’s a drop in obvious tricks and technical portions of the dive but I believe this has been effectively replaced by syncro’ stuff, flying with the camera ect. Not easy mate!

Compulsories, yeah fair one, The Alchemy guys were fast! No doubt about it., But it was So bloody fast that a lot of the stuff was obscured or deemed unjudgeable. we could go on about this all day but the same stuff happens in RW competitions, speed is not the only focus, there’s also showing the grip, keeping the heading ect. Lets not let the use of the word "clean" get confused with the concept of showing the grip. two totally different things bro.

***there are less teams competing now than in the past and routines in many senses have become slower. Its very much relative freestyle. ***

I dont think its got slower. What are you going on about? The routines that are flown at international comps now are more jammed packed that ever. The style of flight may seem slower/SMOOTHER, but surely that’s teams trying to fly in a more presentable manner. I would say that there are plenty of artistic teams competing the world over. It might be the case that there’s fewer teams at the top end because the level is constantly being raised.

Babylon haven’t shown new stuff? You gotta be kidding?! And as for the free organising comments. dude the team guys are sportsmen not the red cross.

I declare that you stop this Piffel at once Lord Piers.

[Trent 0]

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Everyone here feels(yourself included) that the distortion of the FAI judging criteria has crosses all boundaries. One sentance of 'minimal control surfaces' has become a convient by roads by which judges who are ex-freestylists themselves, who dont entirely understand current freefly, judge events has dissilousoned alot of flyers, and doesnt in a proportional display what i would call prudent judging bu their own criteria. Lets me frank, some people too have taken advantage of the state of affairs by making a long term project of the situation by getting on the FAI council and rewritting rules to suit themselves.

AMEN to that. The "dominant" regular judges for world freefly events actually seem to know VERY little about what is going on. Those who have the council's ear about what is "good" and "difficult" will always have the advantage. Some teams just take for granted that judging is done on knowledgeable basis. Refusal to acknowledge different styles and understand true difficulties of maneuvers has disillusioned MANY would-be world level competitors.

Personally, I don't think that the current fad of tracking around with pointy toes for most of a routine is all that impressive. Nor is deploying your canopy before the time is up. But hey, I'm not a judge.

Oh, hello again!

[Andrewnewell 0]

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Personally, I don't think that the current fad of tracking around with pointy toes for most of a routine is all that impressive. Nor is deploying your canopy before the time is up. But hey, I'm not a judge.

I kinda like that type of presentation and style but I would agree that there is room for other styles of flight. It would be nice if every team was judged on their own merit and style instead of being judged against the one model. Saying that the Germans have been doing things a little differently for years and have been quite successful.

[Trent 0]

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I kinda like that type of presentation and style but I would agree that there is room for other styles of flight. It would be nice if every team was judged on their own merit and style instead of being judged against the one model.

That IS how teams should be judged. Trust me, I've had conversations with the repeat offender judges at international events and their minds will never change. THEY need to be changed.

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Saying that the Germans have been doing things a little differently for years and have been quite successful.

Are you talking about the German nationals or the German freefly team? The team has had the same routine since we competed against them in Brazil in 2004. Amazingly, the judges move the routine up in ranking every year even though it hasn't changed.

Oh, hello again!

[Andrewnewell 0]

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Are you talking about the German nationals or the German freefly team? The team has had the same routine since we competed against them in Brazil in 2004. Amazingly, the judges move the routine up in ranking every year even though it hasn't changed.

The German freefly team. Their position could be the result of being better or a lack of teams showing a better performance.

In regards to being judged on own merit, there is the example of Guanno who in 05 in the first round were .1 higher than Babylon? There is of course the whole first Jumps senario to consider but I think that this a good example of high class teams doing there thing with little bias. In the end I think Guanno got the bronze and were only 1.7 behind the top french team. Thats cutting it pretty fine, dispite Mr Fedykins comments about syle bias ect...

By the way, the Guanno boys did a bloody oustanding Job at Gera and in my personal opinion deserved a better placing for their efforts.

[Trent 0]

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The German freefly team. Their position could be the result of being better or a lack of teams showing a better performance.

See if you can find a video of the German routine from the World Games and compare it to Jok'air (who was PUT in 4th place). Then tell me there was a lack of better performances. On an international level, there are MANY judging problems and I feel it stems from the same few judges who have VERY little idea about what freeflying is.

In regards to the AZ World Cup, that was one of the more fairly judged events. Compare it to Brazil in '04, World Games 06, Gera '06. The tendency is towards confusing and curious judging logic. I actually had a judge tell me AFTER the World Games that she just liked to pick her top 3 then give them points to keep them in that order. There IS a problem and I think that getting younger judges who have freefly experience is the answer. I've had this conversation with the IPC and nothing's changed yet. It probably wouldn't hurt to fix it before newer freeflyers lose interest in the artistic side altogether, as we see happening here in the US.

Oh, hello again!

[Andrewnewell 0]

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same few judges who have VERY little idea about what freeflying is.

What is it? What is freeflying to you? Im asking this because no matter what your answer will be its bound to be different for allot of other people. Having seen footage of you guys, and understanding the high degree of skill it takes to pull off the stuff you guys do, I can appreciate it. But despite this there will always be people that won’t get it, judges included, even ones with hands on experience. I suppose it comes down to what you think looks good and is "True Freeflying", what ever that is, and what you know will score well with at a specific event. You can either play to the judges and show a performance you think they will like, whilst incorporating your own style or you can go a different direction, show your own style/concept of what competitive Freefling is all about, turn a few heads, and run the risk not scoring as well as you'd like.

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There IS a problem and I think that getting younger judges who have freefly experience is the answer. I've had this conversation with the IPC and nothing's changed yet. It probably wouldn't hurt to fix it before newer freeflyers lose interest in the artistic side altogether, as we see happening here in the US.

For sure there is a need for a greater amount of judges who have freefly experience first hand. I totally agree. I’m sure this would have a beneficial effect of the scoring of technical flying. But for what limited amount of first hand experience the current judges have I think that the majority give a score that they feel is fair. Barr the one team, I thought that all of the teams at Gera (despite only getting 3 rounds in) were placed well. It’s disappointing to hear the story about the judge and her favourite teams. But I suppose that’s always going to happen within an artistic discipline to some extent. I would say that there are very few competitions, even RW, that are totally bias free. I’m just glad theres a panel of judges not just the one, all giving a score from their own perspective.

This years World cup is going to be a bit of a mix up with some good teams not competing anymore and some up and comers working very hard. It'll be interesting to see what the judges make of some of the new styles and ideas.

[Trent 0]

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What is it? What is freeflying to you? Im asking this because no matter what your answer will be its bound to be different for allot of other people.

I'm not trying to box in one specific definition, just asking that judges have SOME idea of what it takes to do what teams are doing. Several of the judges, usually the ones in charge, don't seem to know the first thing about it. I've always felt the judging at the US Nationals has been WAY better than international simply because of the fact that the panels (which don't always include only US judges) are composed of younger judges with actual freefly experience.

As for our team, we do what we like and what we enjoy as a jump. We always try to have a good mix of technical and "pretty" stuff, getting in all axes of flight. Currently, the judges internationally prefer lots of tracking and over unders, which looks good on video for sure... but seems to get more credit than it's worth in our opinion. But... that's what a subjective discipline is about. If we couldn't deal with it, we wouldn't do it.

We're looking forward to seeing the scores from the World Cup in Russia. Unfortunately we won't be there to see it first-hand.

Oh, hello again!

[dharma1976 0]

from the ranks down here the two of you are some hella decent body pilots and everytime i watch your viddies I tend to jaw drop a bit...

Andy still in spain? I think I might hav eot do some spain this summer...

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[dharma1976 0]

you know having slept on it a bit more and the tequila has worn off I have some definite opinions on what freeflying is....

freeflying to me is a state of mind and many states of body flight....

freeflying is getting out there and having a good time...

sometimes I wonder about freeflyings current state...it seems that people have gotten very serious about being free eh?

Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[rehmwa 2]

If it's so subjective, why even score it at all? Make it a fully demonstration event about showing the world new stuff.

It'll always evolve and spin of objectively scorable disciplines like VRW, and skills presentation requirements incorporated solely of compulsories. So those that need to 'compete' and 'win' can have that - and the sport needs that aspect just as much as 'free' exploration of style.

But the "pure" stuff can just be unscorable and for demo only.

Or, let the spectators judge it and 'really' leave it up to what's considered 'neat' and deal with some crowds always playing favorites.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants