Breaking off after Sitfly

[FFlyer 0]

I have been doing mostly 2ways, so when we break off while in a sit, we just go flat and track away (and do a barrel roll to look above). But when jumping with more people I can definitly see the benefit in going onto your back first from a sit and tracking away so you can look to see if anyone is above you. The problem that ive seen with this is that as soon as someone tries to go onto their back from a sit,...they just fall like a rock. They end up not going very far (horizontal seperation is minimal) and they end up dropping like a rock instead of actually tracking.

What is a good method of breaking off after a sit jump? If going onto your back is the prefered method, then how do you slow your fallrate and track away? From what ive seen, you get much better horizontal seperation from going onto your stomach first and doing a barrell roll.

Any help here?
Thanks

[gus 1]

Here are my thoughts, for what they're worth.

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so when we break off while in a sit, we just go flat and track away

That's a bad habit to get in to. When you go from sit straight to flat you 'cork' incredibly, ie you suddenly slow right down from sit speeds to flat speeds. In a 2-way you can get away with it because you can be certain where your friend is. But what if you're doing a 3-way, you loose sight of someone, go flat and it turns out they were 50 ft directly above you. You can very easily create very dangerous closing speeds between 2 jumpers. Closing speeds high enough to break bones, dislocated joints, knock you out....or worse.

The problem with tracking off on your back is exactly what you've said: lots of people just aren't good enough at it! But there's another problem and it's about clearing your airspace again. Suppose you're doing a 3-way and at 5k you're sat facing your mate but you've lost that troublesome 3rd person again. If you blindly roll backwards and start back tracking off, what happens if they're directly behind you? That transition from sit to backtrack can generate alot of horizontal speed, again enough to hurt or worse.

The first step to a successful breakoff is prevention. Boring but true. Choose your jump buddies carefully. Be realistic about everybody's skill level. Consider the weather conditions (might you loose people in cloud?). Have a plan B incase plan A goes to shit.
The second step is observation. If you loose someone on a jump don't just say "ah fuck it" and hope it'll be ok, try and find them. This comes down to choosing your jump buddies again, you shouldn't really be jumping with people who can't stay close enough together to maintain visible contact.
The third step is anticipation. Don't be suprised when your dytter goes off at 5. Especially in big groups I start to plan my escape during the last few thousand feet, making sure I can see everyone, finding my gap, maybe even sneakily repositioning myself to get a more favourable tracking direction .
Finally, in sit jumps, I like to turn 180 and go in to a steep track, gradually flatening it out until pull time. As I turn 180 from the center of the group I look above me to make sure there's no-one there, then I look in the direction I'm about to track to make sure there's no-one there. Then I roll forwards, put my head where my feet were and track like my life depends on it.

Phew! Hope that came out more helpful than preachy. You caught me on my lunch break and I'm in no hurry to get back to work .

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[piisfish 135]

not very expert but the method I use is the ball/safety position and go to a back track...... If on your back you can't track and fall like a brick, get more flying notions before getting in bigger groups... Don't mean to be mean... just realistic.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[WrongWay 0]

Personally, I think the safest way is to roll back onto your back and then backtrack away, but this can get nasty if you don't have a half decent back track.

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The problem that ive seen with this is that as soon as someone tries to go onto their back from a sit,...they just fall like a rock. They end up not going very far (horizontal seperation is minimal) and they end up dropping like a rock instead of actually tracking.

This is what I'm talking about in the previous paragraph. This is caused by one thing, and that's poor backflying/backtracking skills. If you ask me, you should look out for #1 and get some coaching for your back track. After all, if you're tracking away from them like a bat out of hell, then you don't have to worry if they're falling like a rock or not moving at all because you're at a safe distance.

If you're concerned about slowing your fallrate, getting some coaching and flattening out your back track will break any concern you have there, not to mention you'll be more than slow enough once you barrel roll onto your belly.

No matter what, corking to your bellies and then tracking away is a bad idea, especially if you're working close together.

My advice: Get some coaching on both your backflying and your back tracking. You'll find out later that these skills are extremely useful in every skydive.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Amanduh 0]

*Disclaimer: I am not very experienced*


What I was told to do after a sit fly jump is that right before break off time (or right at it) take a second or two and back slide to your best ability. Just lean over your knees and back out of the formation before going to your back or belly. This way it gives more separation before break off/belly/back transition..

[Paige 0]

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Those who can't take the pain...Extinguish the spark of life.

Nope , I just found a better spark, that causes less pain, allows me to fly for 90 minutes in a day, and has no weather holds!

I'm messing with ya girlie, just wanted to say Hi and NICE avitar!!!!!
Come ff with me in the Orlando tunnel, my Barbie, OGB, wants to play with you

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[Amanduh 0]

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I just found a better spark, that causes less pain, allows me to fly for 90 minutes in a day, and has no weather holds!

BWAHHAAAAA!!!! That is hilarious sweetie!!!

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Come ff with me in the Orlando tunnel, my Barbie wants to play with you

I'll make it out there sooner or later!!! Probably next year, have to finish paying off my rig before I do much more traveling!

[Paige 0]

Wow, I'm pretty excited to see where my flying will be in a year. I imagine you will improve leaps and bounds too

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www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[Peej 0]

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My advice: Get some coaching on both your backflying and your back tracking. You'll find out later that these skills are extremely useful in every skydive.

Indeed. Alternatively, climb in the tunnel with a coach and focus purely on backflying, i can't tell you how much the tunnel helped me. And as far as i'm concerned it's a skill that every freeflyer should master. Unfortunately it's often overlooked.

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[FFlyer 0]

Yeah, backtracking skills are a definite must. I think I will do some practice jumps and monitor how much altitude I lose each time I transition from my sit to a backtrack. Try and get the technique perfected because getting onto my back from my stomach is easy enough, but from a sit is a bit different.

[WrongWay 0]

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Alternatively, climb in the tunnel with a coach and focus purely on backflying, i can't tell you how much the tunnel helped me. And as far as i'm concerned it's a skill that every freeflyer should master. Unfortunately it's often overlooked.

I strongly second that.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[WeakMindedFool 0]

What Gus said. Absolutely first thing is to clear the air BEHIND you. For me it's a 180 in place, transition to my head and flock away. I look to my above and turn the flock into a back track roll to belly and dump. You gotta clear all directions!!! If you can't make the transition from sit to head to flock, you gotta work on that back flying, so you can roll to you back while keeping your fall rate, scan above and behind BEFORE you start moving. Get your friends to do some tracking jumps with you on your back, play with the fall rate and speed (I don't have a tunnel near me either, yet, so that's no help.).
Peace!

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[Jskydiver22 0]

Ive seen this done before. I always try to give a nice wave off before i start breaking off. I think the method that u listed is a pretty cool way to do it, but I guess I could see where it would be bad if someone was right behind you and you backed into them, But it gives you a better chance to see other people as you back out.

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[Amanduh 0]

Agreed. It is good to make sure no one is behind you for sure. I was referring to when all involved in the dive are in view. Smaller #'s, like 2-4 ways or so...

Good point on not wanting to back out when all jumpers are not in sight.

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[littlestranger 0]

I had the same questions when I first started freeflying and got some excellent feedback on cartwheeling into a track. Here is a link to the original post:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1306955;#1306955

[EricaH 0]

Great thread there! I was wondering the last bit of advice you got from the gravity rats (1/2 cartwheel into arch into belly track) still doesn't clear the air above or behind you until you're already heading that way.

What did you end up doing in reality (ie. the air)?

I was thinking in a sit to do a 360 rotation to check all areas around you, then the 1/2 cartwheel, peeling off into a track from HD. Seems like you wouldn't be able to get away from the 360 turn to check air space.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

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[Zenister 0]

i think a key point to emphasize is that 'break off' doesnt mean 'immediately track away like a bat out of hell'..

it means the 'play' portion of your dive is over and you should look about and count the members of your group BEFORE you make any sudden changes in fall rate or direction..

(ideally your all on level and aware of each others locations LOOOONG before break off, but with larger groups and a wide range of skill levels that doesnt always happen...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[littlestranger 0]

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(1/2 cartwheel into arch into belly track) still doesn't clear the air above or behind you until you're already heading that way.

Before I break off I make sure I know where everyone is, granted I'm still jumping with relatively small groups.

[FFlyer 0]

Howabout simply looking above and around you while still in a sit (maybe 500ft higher than when you are planning to go flat). Then once you have checked above you, then you can go into a steep track and barrel roll before you open? There's no reason you cant look up while in a sit?

If your HD skills are good enough then 1/2 cartwheeling into HD and tracking is fine, but for me im not confident enough in HD yet to do that. I would rather stick with things that im good at when it comes to break off time.

what do you think?

[littlestranger 0]

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If your HD skills are good enough then 1/2 cartwheeling into HD and tracking is fine

I don't go head down, the cartwheel puts me at about a 45 degree angle facing 180 degrees in the other direction from the starting point...if that makes sense. Read the other post again, I was having a hard time visualizing it myself.

I tried to upload video of the transition, but the company I work for, in it's infinite wisdom, has blocked skydivingmovies.com.

[FFlyer 0]

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I tried to upload video of the transition, but the company I work for, in it's infinite wisdom, has blocked skydivingmovies.com.

Thats unforgivable,...they must be punished!!